Procyon LED. Newbie Help, aero garden

AeroKing said:

There are no grows on this site with anything stronger than the 90w UFO light. These are not the same bullshit LEDs that you've seen people fail with.

Click to expand...

There ARE grows here with something stronger than the (Thanks for using than and not then!) Poo-F-O. I run a Theoreme innovation SmartLamp 600 ProBloom. And I love it.

Granted I'm new at cultivatin, but I'm a tech-head with a grasp of the elemental. So while I've not got the pound-per plant the HID crew seems to get ALL THE TIME, I get what I want. Or at least, I'm getting closer to what I want.

New pics soon. See profile albums for starters.

GrowGreenGreen, I would tread lightly if I were you.

There are many accounts on here with lower post counts like yours spamming LED lights.

I'm not saying that you are, but you will likely be seen as such if you push too hard.

If you are seen as a spammer, you will be met with hostility, may be banned, and nobody will listen to you.

Just some friendly advice...

growgreen i was just about to send these guys to your site. thanks for jumping in. now do you guys believe?

growgreen is the real deal. whos accusing him of spamming? thats dumb. hps users have stooped to a new low. not all but some. he is not a spammer in any sense of the word. Have you seen his pics?

Hi All!! Thanks for the advice, all of it! I will be using the Procyon 100 and have already started. . .
This is what I have done thus far:
1) Germinated my seeds by placing them on a wet sponge covered in tin foil and set on top of my water heater. (Durban Poison & Feminized Kaya from Nirvana).
2) 24 hours later, the shells cracked, showing a small white tail--some were longer than others.
3) Immediately I planted the seeds in a nursery-brand soil, which they use and only keep on hand for 2 weeks (I added no extra nutes) -- originally I bought Miracle Gro, but went to a nursery right before planting and they gave me the soil they themselves use. I used Ferry-Morse Peet Pots--about 6 in. deep.
4) I have a Procyon 100/ 125W LED light--blue and red spectrum only. I placed a plastic dome (lid) to trap moisture b/c my light does not produce much heat--also my grow room is a Home Box. My light is about 10-12 inches above my germinated, planted seeds. They have not popped out yet.
5) For flowering I plan on using a 400W HPS.
QUESTIONS:
1) Should I use a softer light for sprouting?
2) Is the root supposed to be longer before planting or does it really matter?
3) Any of my above stuff sound wrong or any suggestions?

Peace,
Allison

I have some leds as part of my set up (for the sake of experimentation) and have gotten what I think to be expert advice from the manufacturer (who travels around setting them up in commercial greenhouses and is a botanist.) Not going to spam their site but if anyone wants the info feel free to pm. Here are a few tips given with the lights (two in particular may be the reason people arent getting stellar results with leds.)

1. "if your plants are grown indoors, without supplemental light, some plants such as tomatoes may benefit from the addition of a single GE 60 watt soft white placed anywhere in the room with the plants. This provides a boost in some wavelengths of light which will encourage fruiting." Initially my plan, as recomended by this gentleman was to use lots of leds with hid (md.) The HID would come on for 30 minutes every three hours. This would give the plants the infrared heat that they need to stress them into growing strong - even the guy that sells them says that you shouldnt grow with led's alone.

2. (note: mine are bars with multiple clusters of diferrent colors so I dont know if this holds tru for the big daddy set ups like the ones above.) "This professional quality product is designed by the manufacturer for maximum performance at the following mounting height 28" - 18". Improper mounting of the light bar too close to the plants results in no light overlap. Plants show slow to no vertical growth, stressed clippings, slow seed growth, uneven growth."
if you jame the light up against the plant you are just giving it focused little beams - you want to back it off some sot that a cone of light hits the plant.

3. In commercial growing, monitor your CO2 levels. LED lights emit a large amount of absorbed light energy, which may require slight augmentation of CO2 levels.

for now I am running the hid full time, but, as the days get warmer I might have to start limiting it. Definitely, if I attempt another grow this summer I'll try the 30 minute burst concept. Anyway. I dont have any results to show but am confident in the advise.

1982grower said:

growgreen i was just about to send these guys to your site. thanks for jumping in. now do you guys believe?

Click to expand...

hi 82

belive what? hes using 330w LED to grow less than an oz https://www.rollitup.org/members/growgreengreen-albums-high-light-reel-picture37909-first-harvest-0-770-oz.html

im fucking sick of all this bull shit LED lights LOL iv just searched "Theoreme innovation SmartLamp 600 ProBloom." and there is a poster on a few cana sites posting results as if he is a med grower and the way he talks about them is straight out of a sales mans mouth he goes by the name ledgrowtester he makes about 10 posts on every canna forum posting pics that look o.k and says he could do better but this is my 1st grow using them ect..

please for fuck sake if you are thinking of going out to get one of these bull shit lights for $1000's i will brake down crying for you. i have seen enough bull shit clames from people like ledtestgrower to make me vomit! and the thing is people are acually beliving his bull shit! it should be against the law, led grow lights are day light robery for the price you pay for them! just look at the results growgreen is getting will tell you they are bull shit. if one of my 600w hps gave the results that fairy light bollucks is giving i would throw it out and give up growing weed. __________________

If your willing to put in the time to learn a little about building your own array then for you the time of the LED has probably arrived. You can put together an array of high intensity LEDs ranging from 3-5w each for about $1-1.50 per watt. Making a 400w array $400-600 versus the $2000 you'd pay for a commercial one. At the very least an LED array is going to be equally effective to an HID light of the same wattage, and if used effectively can be almost twice as efficient. They don't need as intense ventilation and cooling and there lifespan is exponentially longer. The money you save from just setting up a cooling system and replacement bulbs alone will make up whatever extra cost you spent on the LEDs.

As far as commercial fixtures, I'd give it a couple of years, but really at the pace technology like this moves. I wouldn't be suprised if within 2 years similarly priced commercial LED lights will outperform there HID counterparts and people will start switching out there systems.

hazetastic808 said:

If your willing to put in the time to learn a little about building your own array then for you the time of the LED has probably arrived. You can put together an array of high intensity LEDs ranging from 3-5w each for about $1-1.50 per watt. Making a 400w array $400-600 versus the $2000 you'd pay for a commercial one. At the very least an LED array is going to be equally effective to an HID light of the same wattage, and if used effectively can be almost twice as efficient. They don't need as intense ventilation and cooling and there lifespan is exponentially longer. The money you save from just setting up a cooling system and replacement bulbs alone will make up whatever extra cost you spent on the LEDs.

As far as commercial fixtures, I'd give it a couple of years, but really at the pace technology like this moves. I wouldn't be suprised if within 2 years similarly priced commercial LED lights will outperform there HID counterparts and people will start switching out there systems.

Click to expand...

it would take a life time to get back $2000 if all you get is 1oz a grow from using 330w of electric in fact you would be losing money running that much watts to grow so little weed.

I think the LED market mean when they say 90LED = to a 600w or a 1000w is the size of the plant that can be grown under the light at the minumum light intensity for i.e a 1000w at low watts per sq foot lets say 1000 watts covering an area of 8x8 plants look big beautiful, but there is no yeild from them.

9inch bigbud said:

it would take a life time to get back $2000 if all you get is 1oz a grow from using 330w of electric in fact you would be losing money running that much watts to grow so little weed.

I think the LED market mean when they say 90LED = to a 600w or a 1000w is the size of the plant that can be grown under the light at the minumum light intensity for i.e a 1000w at low watts per sq foot lets say 1000 watts covering an area of 8x8 plants look big beautiful, but there is no yeild from them.

Click to expand...

Idk where your getting either of these figures from but it seems like you did not read at all the post you were responding too.

If you read I said for $400-600 you could build your own 400w array, not a POS 90w array like the UFO or those panels with hundreds of little POS leds but actually 400w of high intensity LEDs (most likely 130-140 3-5w LEDs)

And as I said before LEDs are more efficient per watt then an HID fixture of the same wattage. Its just the commercial sellers that grossly overestimate this figure that hurts the overall image of LEDs by growers when they see what they percieve to be failed grows. A procyon 100 is $500+ and is supposed to equal a 400w HID in reality if used efficiently it can equal the power of a 150w-250w HID. Some may see this as a failure, but when you consider that you could build an identical array yourself for $150 it becomes more reasonable.

Not to mention all of the possibilities you have with LED lighting versus others when you consider things like optimizing spectrum lighting, light placement (your plants can literally touch them with no harm) allowing for infinite possibilities in terms of side lighting/undercanopy lighting/spot lighting to light your plant in ways no other light system can.

There is actual proof out there that this is viable I will try to find the link but there is a guy who keeps a growlog of I think 3 runs he does using only 16 3w Luxeon stars (48w total) and on his 2nd run I believe he yields 56g thats more then 1g per LED/w. It looks unbelievable when you see these 16 little 2mm diodes spaced out and realizing there the only light source for those plants.

In that guys setup he has them all just hung directly over his plants I ordered 14 3w stars today for about $75 for a little experiment I want to try. I'm going to build a hexagonal cabinet 8" each side 3' high so theres about 1.5' diameter growspace for a decent sized plant. I'm going to place a 3w diode 1/3 and 2/3 up each wall as well as 1 on the ceiling and floor of the cabinet. Essentially encasing the plant in light from all sides. If High intensity LEDs can produce greater then 1g/w when hung above plants I want to see what they can do when they fully surround a plant.

http://www.creatiesintechniek.nl/Led/test2.html

Theres the link, on that particular grow he gets 53g from just under 60w of light. I was a little off on the specs but still thats great, considering he was using soil as well. This is also a little old, you can get light even more powerful then those like the 3w versions I bought (his are 2w a piece) which not only are more powerful but more effective in supplying light.

hazetastic808 said:

http://www.creatiesintechniek.nl/Led/test2.html

Theres the link, on that particular grow he gets 53g from just under 60w of light. I was a little off on the specs but still thats great, considering he was using soil as well. This is also a little old, you can get light even more powerful then those like the 3w versions I bought (his are 2w a piece) which not only are more powerful but more effective in supplying light.

Click to expand...

right how long did he veg for? the proper way to to work out GPW (gram per watt) is the total power used through out the grow.

i.e
I have X ammount of cuttings and I veg them for 3 days under 110w CFL remember this!! because the amount of time in veg plays a lot in the final GPW

i then switch into flower 12/12 lets say 1000w for 8 weeks i flower 36 plants under the 1000w and each plant gives me 1oz per plant (pice of piss) thats 36 oz or 1000grams per 8 weeks cycle.

that is 1gpw over the space of 8 weeks or 125 grams a week. add the 3 days worth of veg time under 24/3 = 7.3KWH

total power used is 84 KWH per week 1000 watts per day = 12kw
total power used is 84 KWH per week
84KWH x 8 weeks = 672
now add the 7.3KWH from the veg time total watts used = 679.3 total KWH over the space of 8 weeks.

i.e #2

i veg 4 plants for 6 weeks under 400w scrog. that is a total of KWH per 67.2 KWH week or 403.2 over the 6 weeks im in veg 24/7

I now swith to my 1000w and go 12/12 for 8 weeks the same as above works out as 672 KWH now add the veg wattage to the flower and the total is = 1075.2 KWH but that has taken 14 weeks from start to finish lest say the scrog hits you 1000grams

this is where lots of people turn round and say i jet over a GPW and then you ask them how long did you veg for?? and they say 6 weeks that is not a GPW over the space of 8 weeks that is a gram per watt over 14 weeks.

there was a calculator on over grow years ago that would work out how efficant your grow was. the method used was the 8 week cycle because most plants finish in 8 weeks and then you would add the veg time and it would work out the total GPW over the 8 weeks including the veg to show your GPW as you can see the person who is growing scrog is not hitting noware near the GPW now his he.

the GPW is the total anount of time from start to finish not just the flowering time otherwise there would be no way to compare differant gardens in effectivness.

9inch bigbud said:

hi 82

belive what? hes using 330w LED to grow less than an oz https://www.rollitup.org/members/growgreengreen-albums-high-light-reel-picture37909-first-harvest-0-770-oz.html

Click to expand...

dude a picture is worth a million words...

good find bigbud!

maybe you can use that led as a flowering room.. keep a couple mothers in the closet..
I mean since you already bought it..and did you post a picture of yourself?
I dont know if thats such a good idea.. this isnt like myspace.. im sure the police read through here from time to time...

IMO

have a nice day..welcome to the site though.. Good luck with your grow

unless you are deadset on saving the enviroment or something i would ditch the led. ive seen alot of people showing off their led grows and some had over $1000 worth of em and they still dont seem to work great. they usually look more like cfl grows. put those plants under a 400w hps and watch em grow like you gave em crack. you will notice they will grow completely different than with cfl's or leds. and it seems the only argument led growers have is that they are energy efficient, so are slow ass electric and hybrid cars............

9inch bigbud said:

right how long did he veg for? the proper way to to work out GPW (gram per watt) is the total power used through out the grow.

i.e
I have X ammount of cuttings and I veg them for 3 days under 110w CFL remember this!! because the amount of time in veg plays a lot in the final GPW

i then switch into flower 12/12 lets say 1000w for 8 weeks i flower 36 plants under the 1000w and each plant gives me 1oz per plant (pice of piss) thats 36 oz or 1000grams per 8 weeks cycle.

that is 1gpw over the space of 8 weeks or 125 grams a week. add the 3 days worth of veg time under 24/3 = 7.3KWH

total power used is 84 KWH per week 1000 watts per day = 12kw
total power used is 84 KWH per week
84KWH x 8 weeks = 672
now add the 7.3KWH from the veg time total watts used = 679.3 total KWH over the space of 8 weeks.

i.e #2

i veg 4 plants for 6 weeks under 400w scrog. that is a total of KWH per 67.2 KWH week or 403.2 over the 6 weeks im in veg 24/7

I now swith to my 1000w and go 12/12 for 8 weeks the same as above works out as 672 KWH now add the veg wattage to the flower and the total is = 1075.2 KWH but that has taken 14 weeks from start to finish lest say the scrog hits you 1000grams

this is where lots of people turn round and say i jet over a GPW and then you ask them how long did you veg for?? and they say 6 weeks that is not a GPW over the space of 8 weeks that is a gram per watt over 14 weeks.

there was a calculator on over grow years ago that would work out how efficant your grow was. the method used was the 8 week cycle because most plants finish in 8 weeks and then you would add the veg time and it would work out the total GPW over the 8 weeks including the veg to show your GPW as you can see the person who is growing scrog is not hitting noware near the GPW now his he.

the GPW is the total anount of time from start to finish not just the flowering time otherwise there would be no way to compare differant gardens in effectivness.

Click to expand...

He vegges 3 weeks but in my personal experiment I will just be throwing clones straight into flowering once there about a foot to test how the LEDs work purely for flowering (since they have already been proven effective for veg)

That explains alot in terms of the gpw figure though thanks. Although I think your overcomplicating things a bit in terms of not being able to compare different setups... Honestly why not just assume that clones are vegged to about 1' in a completely seperate area and then calculate the effectiveness of the flowering chamber only? Considering this is what most do in there setups anyways. Although for your scrog setup this would change a bit, but I really have no doubt that if LEDs prove to be viable for flowering, you could easily put together an all blue array for veg and switch most out for reds when you switch over to flowering and it would be incredibly efficient.

Your also leaving out a large variable in your equation for g/w calculation, which happens to effect the efficiency of LEDs alot. Cooling costs. You have to figure in the cost of constantly running those giant cooling systems to keep your room cool under those 1000w HIDs.

LEDs arent completely heatproof, in a highintensity array of 300+ watts there is going to be some heat but considerably less then a HID fixture of the same wattage, standard ventilation with a couple of small fans would be viable.

If you need added value consider that you will not have to worry about bulb maitenance with LEDs for 10-20 years of daily 12/12 use. While I know some who replace their HID bulbs 3-4 times a year.

hazetastic808 said:

He vegges 3 weeks but in my personal experiment I will just be throwing clones straight into flowering once there about a foot to test how the LEDs work purely for flowering (since they have already been proven effective for veg)

That explains alot in terms of the gpw figure though thanks. Although I think your overcomplicating things a bit in terms of not being able to compare different setups... Honestly why not just assume that clones are vegged to about 1' in a completely seperate area and then calculate the effectiveness of the flowering chamber only? Considering this is what most do in there setups anyways. Although for your scrog setup this would change a bit, but I really have no doubt that if LEDs prove to be viable for flowering, you could easily put together an all blue array for veg and switch most out for reds when you switch over to flowering and it would be incredibly efficient.

Your also leaving out a large variable in your equation for g/w calculation, which happens to effect the efficiency of LEDs alot. Cooling costs. You have to figure in the cost of constantly running those giant cooling systems to keep your room cool under those 1000w HIDs.

LEDs arent completely heatproof, in a highintensity array of 300+ watts there is going to be some heat but considerably less then a HID fixture of the same wattage, standard ventilation with a couple of small fans would be viable.

If you need added value consider that you will not have to worry about bulb maitenance with LEDs for 10-20 years of daily 12/12 use. While I know some who replace their HID bulbs 3-4 times a year.

Click to expand...

3-4 changes a year? what a waste! if you use bulbs 12/12 then at more like 18 - 24 months

cooling the grow room does not take that much power 6" fans draw around 50w 8" fan are 80w if i remmber? 8" extractor fan will cool 2,000w growroom easy. here is the way to work out GPW

How do I accurately measure my Grow Room Efficiency?

Added by: administrator Last edited by: administrator Viewed: 882 times Rated by 9 users: 9.40/10GARDEN EFFICIENCY RATING - Online Calculator

or
How much juice you burn to grow a gram..

Standard methods of reporting garden yields are imprecise and don't take the factor of time into account. This is a summary after discussion on a new standard formula for reporting yields and efficiency.

The GE Rating is based on the amount of kilowatt hours used to produce one gram. This factors in how long your strains flower and the resulting number makes it simple to compare 4000 watt gardens with 400 watt gardens. The calculations are easy, here is an example:

2000 watt flowering area
60 days of flowering
12 hours on light cycle
total yield: 49.5 ounces

1) Divide the total wattage of your lamps by 1000 to determine the kilowatts per hour:

2000 / 1000 = 2 kw/h

2) Multiply the previous result by the hours of the light cycle (usually 12):

2 x 12 = 24

3) Multiply the previous result by total days in flowering to determine how many kilowatt hours you used:

24 x 60 = 1440

4) Make sure your yield is in grams, so:

28.4 x 49.5 ounces = 1405.8 grams

5) Now simply divide grams by kilowatts:

1405.8 / 1440 =

0.97 grams per kilowatt hour, or a GE Rating of 0.97! Good job to the hypothetical grower, approaching a GE of 1 is the first plateau to be reached and is a sign of an experienced grower.

The secondary additions to the GE formula would be for the "Whole Garden GE Rating" which must include time spent in cloning and in veg. Figure it out the same way, with days spent under cloning lights, hours per day, and add those totals to the watt usage before dividing. This will give you a much lower rating than the standard Bloom GE Rating, but is more accurate for SCROG gardens, and anyone who is involved with extra vegetation time.

We have had a few contributors that have posted their monstrous GE Ratings..

OT1 - average 1.43, high of 1.89
Cobber - 1.75
Sharrina - 1.63
Quimik - 1.58

Click to expand...

i cant find the calulator though? anyone remmember it and can find a link.
http://www.emcarthur.com/shrpduck/overgrow.faq/faq_0000/57.htm

ampl2007 said:

Hi All!! Thanks for the advice, all of it! I will be using the Procyon 100 and have already started. . .
This is what I have done thus far:
1) Germinated my seeds by placing them on a wet sponge covered in tin foil and set on top of my water heater. (Durban Poison & Feminized Kaya from Nirvana).
2) 24 hours later, the shells cracked, showing a small white tail--some were longer than others.
3) Immediately I planted the seeds in a nursery-brand soil, which they use and only keep on hand for 2 weeks (I added no extra nutes) -- originally I bought Miracle Gro, but went to a nursery right before planting and they gave me the soil they themselves use. I used Ferry-Morse Peet Pots--about 6 in. deep.
4) I have a Procyon 100/ 125W LED light--blue and red spectrum only. I placed a plastic dome (lid) to trap moisture b/c my light does not produce much heat--also my grow room is a Home Box. My light is about 10-12 inches above my germinated, planted seeds. They have not popped out yet.
5) For flowering I plan on using a 400W HPS.
QUESTIONS:
1) Should I use a softer light for sprouting?
2) Is the root supposed to be longer before planting or does it really matter?
3) Any of my above stuff sound wrong or any suggestions?

Peace,
Allison

Click to expand...

you should get the seeds in soil as soon as they crack, don't wait for the root to grow longer.

So according to your calculations that guy gets a 0.92, consider he doesn't make as efficient use of the light as he could and has lots of light escaping, with soil and no co2 or anything I'd say thats very good and would demonstrate LEDs are becoming viable. I'm going to attempt to make full use of the LEDs I've ordered getting them close to the plants and light sealing the area and see what results I get.

60w flowering area
80 days of flowering (assuming he had transplanted similar sized clones since I'm trying to calc the GE rating just for flowering.
12 hours on light cycle
Total yield: 1.8 oz (53g)

60/1000 = 0.06

0.06 x 12 = 0.72

0.72 x 80 = 57.6

53/57.6 = 0.92