Problems with leaves, organic

Hello,

Recently i had a leaf problem what got more worse too, i tried different things and tried to find a solution.
I was thinking about problems with salt build up, or wrong ph what shouldnt be a big problem in a big 250-300 liter container with drainage on the bottom?
So another option for me was maybe the hardness of the water, i think its quite severe here.

So due to this i changes to rainwater, gave a bit of epsom salts, quited with the biobizz nutrients, started it again in every combination and it just gets more worse now since i started the rainwater with epsom + biobizz according to OT1's guide.. i also tried foilar feed with epsom salt (today). i need help now before its too late.. The plants are in gold label all mix, and didnt got any nutrients in the vegetative state. Only when i saw the leaves getting a bit more light green in the flowering phase, this was around week 2.

The plants in the back are cheeseberry hazes, the ones in the front are afghaan x nycd (which always had a lighter look then the hazes). They are flowering now for 5 weeks, the afghaan x nycd goes 8 weeks and the haze 10 weeks.

Temprature is fine, its controled by a volt changer, watergifts aren't a big problem neither with the tensiometer..
The only sensitive area is there where i don't have a reasonable ph-meter, only one i can't really trust and i dont have any money recently for a better one..

ooh yes, its my first grow, but really tried to learn as much as i can before i started it..

please help..


sorry btw about the pictures being flipped over..

POWDERED Dolomite Lime. NOT Pellets or Hydrated. ~$9/40#bag at Lowes.

2tbl/gallon of mix, or, 1cup/cf of mix. Water in well.

Next time, add the lime before you use the soil.

It will take care of both your pH and cal/mag issues.

It MUST be powdered! It is just ground up rock and doesn't dissolve, so the coarser grades release too slow for a 3 month plant like MJ. Works great for gardens and lawns for long term use.

Wet

And that would help for sure? You think its a ph-issue in combination with cal/mag deficiency?

At this point its hard to know for sure. You stabbed in the dark trying fix it, possibly making things worse. May have started as a def but could very well be a lockout/up issue. If you use dolomite as suggested. I would NOT use a cup per cuft. Thats just insane. A tablespoon per cuft. is more than enough in most cases. If it were me. I would test my soils ph before ever adding lime during a grow. At this point I would probaly just be using FF Big Bloom or something similar for a week or two. Really low nute value. Just a simple source of goodies to help the medium and the plant recover. Try and level the playing field a bit. Then go from there.

that looks a whole lot like K deficiency..

Wetdog said:

POWDERED Dolomite Lime. NOT Pellets or Hydrated. ~$9/40#bag at Lowes.

2tbl/gallon of mix, or, 1cup/cf of mix. Water in well.

Next time, add the lime before you use the soil.

It will take care of both your pH and cal/mag issues.

It MUST be powdered! It is just ground up rock and doesn't dissolve, so the coarser grades release too slow for a 3 month plant like MJ. Works great for gardens and lawns for long term use.

Wet

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Hydrated lime reacts much faster than dolomite. And your application rates are way high.

crazeehaze said:

that looks a whole lot like K deficiency..

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I agree. But is def or lockout? Thats the ?. And also see signs of ph flux. I thinks there alot of things going on.

Ztiwef said:

And that would help for sure? You think its a ph-issue in combination with cal/mag deficiency?

Click to expand...

As sure as I can be looking at pics on a monitor and no good pH meter.

Lime is one of the cheapest amendments there is, one that no one seems to think to add and the greatest one for keeping pH or cal/mag issues from happening in the first place.

Once you use it, you will never do another grow without it.

Once you apply it, you still won't see any results for at least a week. It is slow release at best, that's why it's best to add it to the soil before use.

Wet

cowboylogic said:

I agree. But is def or lockout? Thats the ?.

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hard to say without a ph meter one can trust

Yep. It would be very good to know the soils ph. The ph and ppm's of the water you are using. That would help a ton.

cowboylogic said:

Hydrated lime reacts much faster than dolomite. And your application rates are way high.

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Hydrated lime+newbs=burnt plants IMO

Hydrated is good stuff to be sure, but awful hot if you have never worked with it.

My mix is heavy peat moss and those application rates work fine for me. It's hard to over apply, unless you work at it, but you can sure under apply it.

YMMV But get some in there.

Wet

Thats cool. Hydrated lime+experts=can still burn. And with a heavy peat mix and its works, cool. But top dressing at a cup per cuft. Just too much IMO. Will cause a ph drift all the way down through the medium as it gets drenched through. Mixed in before hand. Still seems like alot, but if it works. Great. Check ebay out. Look up Jerusalem Stone. Ben is the dudes name that runs it. He cuts limestone straight from the holyland. Then collects the waste, bag and sells it. Best powdered dolomite I have yet to come across.

Hmm, i do have a cheap e-bay ph meter from some Chinese seller. Only i don't think its really accurate, but maybe it can show a low or high ph?
I will go buy some dolomite lime tomorrow hopefully..

also about the ph flux, maybe thats because i switched to rainwater lately, and only made things worse? Like last week the leaf tips where pointing straight up, only the really end/tip of it. And sinds the rainwater the leaves really started to get worse i think.. What is the symptom of ph flux?

And should i give the rainwater for now, or better tapwater? I dont know about the ppm or how to measure this, i only know the ph should be around 8.

Holy Dolo!!!!

I used to use less, and would seem to run out during flower.

Then started using LC's Soiless Mix #1. It was his recipe that calls for the 2tbl/gallon or the 1cup/cf. Seems to last all the way through now.

Good point though about that rate as a top dressing and pH drift. I haven't used it as a top dressing in a very long time, but as part of the mix.

The OP could go with less as long as he gets some on there and soon.

What do you think about the K? I use Kelp meal in my mix, but that is so slow. Perhaps something liquid like Meta-K from Earth Juice (organic)?

Wet

Wetdog said:

Holy Dolo!!!!

I used to use less, and would seem to run out during flower.

Then started using LC's Soiless Mix #1. It was his recipe that calls for the 2tbl/gallon or the 1cup/cf. Seems to last all the way through now.

Good point though about that rate as a top dressing and pH drift. I haven't used it as a top dressing in a very long time, but as part of the mix.

The OP could go with less as long as he gets some on there and soon.

What do you think about the K? I use Kelp meal in my mix, but that is so slow. Perhaps something liquid like Meta-K from Earth Juice (organic)?

Wet

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Greensand in the mix to begin with is the best insurance against a K def. You can also top dress with it. But again like alot of top dressing. Not a quick fix. Technafloras Awesome Blossoms is not 100% organic. But is really good at correcting P+K def gently. And as a product in general. One of the best nutes you can use during later flower. The flavors and aromas it brings out. Wonderful. I think it is one of the most under-rated bloom foods out there. I just love it. Great for starting plants also. Clones/seedling.The first week or two.

I've just started using Greensand because I could never find it locally and was too expensive to ship. Happened on a out of the way feed&seed that carried it and added it to my mix. Too soon for any results though. Just glad I found it.

I try and be organic, but I'm not anal about it. I'll use semi-organic or chems in a heartbeat if that's what's needed to correct a problem.

Good call on the AB.

Wet

you have a ph lockout for sure. you think your plants should have a ph of 8 well i think your in the wrong business m8 and your plan of action to recover them are well flawed. and to think a large water container stops a salt build up and any ph problem says to me you aint got a clue! but your in the right place only should of come here sooner than throwing epsom salts all over ya shit lol.

Btw, i looked up some info on the water here and its supposed to be between ph 7,5 and 8 average, the local water-company says the hardness is around 8,4 ºdH (?), what should be around average.


..i didn't say my plants/soil are having a ph of 8? Only that the tapwater is that, not the run-off. Also i know that they should have a other PH, but i have been told that the organic nutrients bring down the PH too, and since the soil is in a 80 x 80 cm container with 300 liters of soil that the buffer should have been sufficient.. What should i do then?

flush your plants for 2 days with ph tested 6 water with a ppm of 50 using a acid (phosphoric acid 20 %) as your in flower stage. then ph test your feed the second before you put it in. make sure you wash out all that salt build up. what we mean by salt build up is not in so much the container but the medium your using as undisolved salts burn roots and on the other redissolve and over nute your plants. dont use rain water am guessing you got it out of a water butt connected to some sought of roof that washed all the mold and fungus spores off the roof down the pipe into the butt cooked for a few hours then straight into your setup hate to be a party killer

7.5 is still far to high your in the akaline part of the scale you MJ needs acidic 6 to 7