PPMs and following what's on the bottle...

What's up guys! It's been a while since I've posted on here. I've been mad busy setting up the second grow room, etc, etc, etc. Either way, I'm back up and running, round two, and trying to learn from the mistakes I made in my first run... The biggest being not paying attention to PPMs.

Long post short (as possible) , I'm using Advanced Nutes.
The bottle says to use 4 ML / L when the plant is in its full stages, but it seems to be a common rule that we cut back to 75% of what's on the bottle.

Well according to some research I've done, a standard PPM chart is as follows:

Seedlings, Early Sprouts 100 to 250
Early Vegging 300 to 400
Full Vegetation 450 to 700
Early Blooming 750 to 950
Full Mature Blooms 1000 to 1600
(this excludes the ppm of your water)

Which is fine, but I'm running into problems getting my PPM's that high. I'm in Early bloom and mixed:
4 Gallons, or 15.16 Liters, of water.
45 ML Sensi Bloom A PH Perf
45 ML Sensi Bloom B PH Perf
25 ML Bud Candy
20 ML VooDoo
20 ML Big Bud

Yet, my PPM reader reads that I'm only hitting 765 PPM, after excluding my water.
IF this is true, then getting my PPM's up toward 1200 is going to require much more than 4 ML/L

THE QUESTIONS ARE:
Does this sound like my PPM meter is off?
Do you guys say fuck what's on the bottle, and gauge feeding according to PPMs?

NebulousPLM said:

What's up guys! It's been a while since I've posted on here. I've been mad busy setting up the second grow room, etc, etc, etc. Either way, I'm back up and running, round two, and trying to learn from the mistakes I made in my first run... The biggest being not paying attention to PPMs.

Long post short (as possible) , I'm using Advanced Nutes.
The bottle says to use 4 ML / L when the plant is in its full stages, but it seems to be a common rule that we cut back to 75% of what's on the bottle.

Well according to some research I've done, a standard PPM chart is as follows:

Seedlings, Early Sprouts 100 to 250
Early Vegging 300 to 400
Full Vegetation 450 to 700
Early Blooming 750 to 950
Full Mature Blooms 1000 to 1600
(this excludes the ppm of your water)

Which is fine, but I'm running into problems getting my PPM's that high. I'm in Early bloom and mixed:
4 Gallons, or 15.16 Liters, of water.
45 ML Sensi Bloom A PH Perf
45 ML Sensi Bloom B PH Perf
25 ML Bud Candy
20 ML VooDoo
20 ML Big Bud

Yet, my PPM reader reads that I'm only hitting 765 PPM, after excluding my water.
IF this is true, then getting my PPM's up toward 1200 is going to require much more than 4 ML/L

THE QUESTIONS ARE:
Does this sound like my PPM meter is off?
Do you guys say fuck what's on the bottle, and gauge feeding according to PPMs?

Click to expand...

AN lies, you are paying extravagant prices for mostly water. Live and learn. Use your instruments and listen to the plants.

You need a third option to your poll.Let the plant guide you.Every plant is different,rootmass,pot size,watering frequency,tempratures,air flow/co2 levels ,lighting etc all affect how much your plant needs.Start with half dose and measure ppm.Monitor plant,adjust ppm as needed.Eventually you will get a feel for what you need to do,its part of the experience.Enjoy it.

Michael Huntherz said:

AN lies, you are paying extravagant prices for mostly water. Live and learn. Use your instruments and listen to the plants.

Click to expand...

I've already heard the extent of this during my last grow, but I need to use the last of my nutes.

Just out of curiosity, what nutes do you recommend using?

Resinhound said:

You need a third option to your poll.Let the plant guide you.Every plant is different,rootmass,pot size,watering frequency,tempratures,air flow/co2 levels ,lighting etc all affect how much your plant needs.Start with half dose and measure ppm.Monitor plant,adjust ppm as needed.Eventually you will get a feel for what you need to do,its part of the experience.Enjoy it.

Click to expand...

So, what you're saying is don't pay attention to what the bottle says and gauge it on how my plant reacts? Even if that means using
5 ML/L at times?

NebulousPLM said:

So, what you're saying is don't pay attention to what the bottle says and gauge it on how my plant reacts? Even if that means using
5 ML/L at times?

Click to expand...

Its going to take some time but ya,you will learn proper ppms from watching your plant as it grows.And next time you plant one,you will use that knowledge to fine tune your nutrient program,whatever it is you are using.There really isnt any magic ppm numbers,you need to find what works for your environment etc.

NebulousPLM said:

So, what you're saying is don't pay attention to what the bottle says and gauge it on how my plant reacts? Even if that means using
5 ML/L at times?

Click to expand...

Yes. But, instead of abstracted "this much bottle A, this much bottle B" I think it helps to know the NPK ratio you're actually feeding (the result of mixing all those bottles.). This helps you vary your NPK ratio, see how the plant responds. And, it helps you move to other sources of nutrients (instead of being locked into a proprietary "bottle-oriented" system).

There is a spreadsheet which lets you enter what you feed, and it tells you the details. (Then, you can play with the amounts, or different bottles, to get the same or ratios, or experiment with different ones.).

My homie runs AN sensi and use 2 ml per l from start of bloom until flush. No need to ever hit 4ml. Ppms end up around 1000. And runs 1ml/l for all additives. Has stellar results and top shelf quality. He and I don't spend a ton of time there and we're looking for something cheaper but in the end the simplicity of no Ph makes it worth it for us. Ph ing 200gals of different soups just isn't worth the time.

NebulousPLM said:

I've already heard the extent of this during my last grow, but I need to use the last of my nutes.

Just out of curiosity, what nutes do you recommend using?

Click to expand...

Sorry dude, not trying to beat a dead horse by saying that, I don't judge you for using what you already bought.

At this point I like Jack's Classic All Purpose and Bloom Booster for soil and Jack's Professional line for Hydro. - from JR Peters' Laboratories. Cheap and effective. All scientific and shit, too, dawg. (hehehe)

Either that or go all organic and make some super-soil, but that's a summer thing for me.

This is why I really have taken to 3 parters, because you can adjust your npk as needed instead of using whatever ratios they mixed. AN is a decent product, and I've used it many times (whether its worth the price is a different discussion), but using a 3 part will give you ultimate control.

An example would be cutting your N way down during the first 2 weeks of flower to help prevent stretch. You're not going to get that sort of fidelity in a one size fits all 1 or 2 part.

2 ml per liter of a and b is plenty . 3-4 ml per gallon of addatives . Should sit you somewhere between 750-1000 depending on water ppm. I don't ever go over 1000ppm with advanced. If you want to solve your question .. Check your run off water. I have been using advanced 5 years and anytime I go over 1000 on the run off, shit locks out. Less is more .

patrickkawi37 said:

2 ml per liter of a and b is plenty . 3-4 ml per gallon of addatives . Should sit you somewhere between 750-1000 depending on water ppm. I don't ever go over 1000ppm with advanced. If you want to solve your question .. Check your run off water. I have been using advanced 5 years and anytime I go over 1000 on the run off, shit locks out. Less is more .

Click to expand...

Appreciate this man. I'm thinking my PPM meter may be throwing me some off readings then. Because, like I said, when I'm adding 3-4 ML/L, I'm getting nowhere near readings of 1000. I'm gonna go buy a new PPM meter and test them side-by-side.

NebulousPLM said:

I'm gonna go buy a new PPM meter and test them side-by-side.

Click to expand...

You can calibrate your meter. Add 1g of table salt to 1L of distilled water. It will be 1000ppm.

You need a fairly accurate scale for that. Or, add 3.79g to 1gal. That would reduce any precision errors from a typical gram scale. Definitely close enough for the measurements we make. ("in the ballpark" calibration.).

az2000 said:

You can calibrate your meter. Add 1g of table salt to 1L of distilled water. It will be 1000ppm.

You need a fairly accurate scale for that. Or, add 3.79g to 1gal. That would reduce any precision errors from a typical gram scale. Definitely close enough for the measurements we make. ("in the ballpark" calibration.).

Click to expand...

Unfortunate man it can't be calibrated... It claims its "factory calibrated"... I don't even know if it uses Hanna honestly..

It's this one:
http://www.amazon.com/MoonCity-Thermometer-Measurement-Resolution-Accuracy/dp/B01556F224/ref=sr_1_22?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1452549287&sr=1-22&keywords=Ppm

I'm gonna look at getting something upward toward $70... This is what I get for being cheap, ha b

NebulousPLM said:

Unfortunate man it can't be calibrated... It claims its "factory calibrated"... I don't even know if it uses Hanna honestly..

It's this one:
http://www.amazon.com/MoonCity-Thermometer-Measurement-Resolution-Accuracy/dp/B01556F224/ref=sr_1_22?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1452549287&sr=1-22&keywords=Ppm

I'm gonna look at getting something upward toward $70... This is what I get for being cheap, ha b

Click to expand...

If you want a meter that will never let you down I recommend blue lab combo meters . I have one for every garden, only calibrate once per run, never have problems

NebulousPLM said:

Unfortunate man it can't be calibrated... It claims its "factory calibrated"... I don't even know if it uses Hanna honestly..

It's this one:
http://www.amazon.com/MoonCity-Thermometer-Measurement-Resolution-Accuracy/dp/B01556F224/ref=sr_1_22?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1452549287&sr=1-22&keywords=Ppm

Click to expand...

From the page, it says: "3.Please adopting standard buffer solution calibration, incorrect calibration would cause measurement error, thus affecting the accuracy of the test solution, or cause the instrument not working properly."

I have the same meter (along with a $15 HM TDS-EZ). I think it's a generic item sold by different people. I don't think I bought that one specifically, but it looks exactly like it. It has a small hole on the back, just above the pocket clip.

If I were in hydro I probably would want something better. But, for soil growing, I think these inexpensive ones are fine (as long as it can be calibrated).

I use 3ml/litre bloom, 2ml/litre micro, and 1ml/litre grow... my ppms are 1300 total (water is about 230). Basically, your metre is off, get a new one imo.

Man, I should've just went with the Blue Lab... The PPM Meter I got is very confusing. From different searches, it seems like the confusion is common. It has six different modes -

1. EC – KClTM
2. EC–442
3. EC – NaCl
4. TDS – KCl
5. TDS - 442TM
6. TDS - NaCl
   
   Any idea which one to use? I have some hanna calibration fluid, and the one that I got closest to was in the TDS - 442 mode... I just want to make sure that I'm on the right setting before I fucking panic. My solution for my bloomers was 1400 with the new pen (800 on the old one). My rez for my early veggers, apparently, is 1500. Im gonna keep in mind the fact that this is brand new HydroTon, 60 gallons of it, so I bet that has something to do with it.