ppf/ppfd

Johnnycannaseed1

Well-Known Member
Is inda-grow even in business anymore?

Note how they tell you to make the reading from the directly under the light (brightest point) then divide by area haha talk about a skewed results and pure disinformation in order to make their product seem way better than it actual is. Very naughty and pure marketing trickery.


Lets look at how the professionals do it


"If you want to find out the true light intensity of a lamp over a designated growing area (e.g. 4’ x 4’), it is important that the average of several PPFD measurements at a defined height are taken."

Notice what they say about companies that use the inda-gro method


"Lighting companies that only publish the PPFD at the center point of a coverage area grossly overestimate the true light intensity of a fixture. A single measurement does not tell you much, since horticulture lights are generally brightest in the center, with light levels decreasing as measurements are taken towards the edges of the coverage area."

https://fluence.science/science/par-ppf-ppfd-dli/

How does the illumitex calculator work?
... Ah yes it does it "exactly" the same as OLD MOTHER SATIVA and fluence... Many readings from multiple points then you take the average.

http://illumitex.com/files/ppfd-calc.php

Here is another example of another company taking measurements the correct way

"PPFD readings can vary depending on the size of the grow light. Individual PPFD measurements just below the grow light are not very meaningful. Every grow light might have incredible PPFD values straight below the lights. Therefore it is essential to measure the PPFD values on the growing area at different spots, in order to calculate an average, which will give you the a reliable picture whether the grow light is effective enough to bring the photons straight onto all of your plants"

http://www.exciteled.eu/en/measure-par-ppfd

:peace:
 

Rahz

Well-Known Member
Excellent! Finally something constructive :)
Spot meters can't measure PPF, but they can take spot readings of PPFD. I think your par meter is giving you PPFD so if it's 650 across the canopy then that's what it is. If the PPF was actually 650 the PPFD would be much higher in your 2x4 space.

Tell us the emitters, emitter count, and drive current and someone might be able to give you a PPFD estimate to compare your reading to.
 

Johnnycannaseed1

Well-Known Member
Ideally if you had the funds you would use something like a line sensor from Li-cor

https://www.licor.com/env/products/light/quantum_line.html

Note that it takes readings/measurements from multiple points... or in this case "integrates an infinite number of points over its surface into a single value".

Note also that Li-cor is a professional company and expert who specializes in this area.

The point is you absolutely Must take multiple readings over a given area then average it out, in order to ascertain the average PPFD of that area, and anyone who says otherwise is just talking nonsense and foolishness lol!
 
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sunni

Administrator
Staff member
Ideally if you had the funds you would use something like a line sensor from Li-cor

https://www.licor.com/env/products/light/quantum_line.html

Note that it takes readings/measurements from multiple points... or in this case "integrates an infinite number of points over its surface into a single value".

Note also that Li-cor is a professional company and expert who specializes in this area.

The point is you absolutely Must take multiple readings over a given area then average it out, in order to ascertain the average PPFD of that area, and anyone who says otherwise is just talking nonsense and foolishness lol!
like im totally not sure what your issue is. but chill out.
seriously.
 

OLD MOTHER SATIVA

Well-Known Member
thanks johnny, for the simplification...thanks rahz for trying to muddy it up[joke]

"Tell us the emitters, emitter count, and drive current and someone might be able to give you a PPFD estimate to compare your reading to."..<--good grief..i guess i didn't need a par meter

while jumping on the guy that helped....this is the first time i didn't get techno gobbledigoop

from every answer ..or links to such

..i am not trying to start a business..or get too nano ..i just wanted something so i could half understand the ppf readings i am getting

sunni .. johnny said nothing compared to what was thrown at him..

thanks all i guess we better ditch this thread..i know i am done

somethings are better left mysterious..
 
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Johnnycannaseed1

Well-Known Member
like im totally not sure what your issue is. but chill out.
seriously.
I am chilled:lol:

I clearly stated I am not looking to get into any type of argument, only to have abuse hurled at me for helping OLD MOTHER out...

So not sure where you are coming from, nor why you have not told the "real" rowdy lot to chill:peace:
 

french-guy

Active Member
If you know the PPF of your LED and the viewing angle, here is the formula for the average PPFD at every point of space :

PPFD = n * PPF / 2Π [1 – cos(α/2)] * d²

α is the viewing angle
n is the number of COBs
d is the distance (m)

this formula doesn't take into account the angular displacement wich is given by the manufacturer, neither the fact that the COBs occupy different positions in space.

peace.
 

wietefras

Well-Known Member
If you skip the "n" and calculate per COB then it would account for the different positions since every cob will have a different angle and different distance.

You'd also need to account for reflections though.
 

OLD MOTHER SATIVA

Well-Known Member
thanks french- guy...too techy...

α is the viewing angle<-- there are many many many angles..

i will stick to holding the par meter at various places and tabulating numbers..

i only need to be in the ball park

and do not plan on publishing anything...

after that ..the plants will tell me if i am ok
 

MeGaKiLlErMaN

Well-Known Member
The answer is if you took multiple measurements in a 4x4 (generally at least one per sq/Ft, then yes you would have that as your PPFD, if its a single measurement then its just a spot check PPF.
 

Rahz

Well-Known Member
Then I think the answer to your question is yes. I was just suggesting a way to prove it.

thanks johnny, for the simplification...thanks rahz for trying to muddy it up[joke]

"Tell us the emitters, emitter count, and drive current and someone might be able to give you a PPFD estimate to compare your reading to."..<--good grief..i guess i didn't need a par meter

while jumping on the guy that helped....this is the first time i didn't get techno gobbledigoop

from every answer ..or links to such

..i am not trying to start a business..or get too nano ..i just wanted something so i could half understand the ppf readings i am getting

sunni .. johnny said nothing compared to what was thrown at him..

thanks all i guess we better ditch this thread..i know i am done

somethings are better left mysterious..
 
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