Police Interactions.

TrippleDip said:

It is, there's no easy answers. I know natural selection sounds harsh, but the events where a cop shoots someone for no reason, with no provocation is very rare. It is a bit callous but I really do think of the people that act erractic, put their hands in and out of their pockets as at least partially if not mostly responsible.

Collateral damage is evens more callous but needed I think. What about the people in the middle east, hiding tanks in schools and complaining that the schools are getting bombed. Crime here hides behind the citizenry the same way.

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You suck cop dick

TrippleDip said:

You are right, but it is not the whole story. Here's a recent review of the available data from harvard: https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/publications/empirical-analysis-racial-differences-police-use-force

some interesting points to consider:

• Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to encounter non-firearm related use of force
• There is no difference in firearm related use of force
• There is strong evidence against race being the cause of the discrimination, and evidence for taste based discrimination (ie someone that doesn't speak proper english or follow social norms is more likely to be discriminated against, the black man with bandanna and sagging pants speaking patois is more likely to have force used against him than a black man in a t-shirt that speaks proper english) Not sure this is such a big problem, societal norms have always existed, will always exist, and exist for a reason.
• Use of force is extremely low: A white person has a 0.7 percent chance of experiencing use of force in a police encounter, a POC has about a 2% chance, and a lot of this increase can be attributed to things like more black people in high crime low income neighbourhoods.

Edit: Does this mean that approximately 20 million people experience use of force each year? I may have to reconsider my positions regarding the benifits of the other 320 million people.

Edit 2: it's 400,000 not 20 million from bureau of justice: https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=70
Still is an important question though, do the benifits of the hundreds of millions outweigh the cost to half a million people each year? If not, where exactly is the line?

I'm posting this mostly as food for thought, not looking for an argument. Politics is about compromise not beating the other side, and remaking society in your utopian vision. Seems most people don't recognise that.

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So it’s not a problem that people of color experience police force three times as often as whites? We should just compromise and be happy with twice as much police force against people of color than whites?

Go suck some more cop dick, trumptard

UncleBuck said:

So it’s not a problem that people of color experience police force three times as often as whites?

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You should take a class on statistics.

1. It's less than 3x
2. What percentage of those times was it justified? Not like there's rap culture telling black youth to assault and shoot cops.
3. What percentage of the time was violence justified but NOT used with black/white/hispanic people?

Again, you seem to be claiming that it's no fault of the people subjected to violence that they were in the police interaction in the first place, also you need to answer the last two questions in order to make any meaningful statement about "fairness" (happiness) or other qualitative statements.

Care to answer the question in the previous post: Do the benifits of the hundreds of millions outweigh the cost to half a million people each year? If not, where exactly is the line?

edit to help you out: the answer to question 2 can be found in the Harvard study. Good luck on number 3, finding statistics on events that didn't happen.

TrippleDip said:

It is, there's no easy answers. I know natural selection sounds harsh, but the events where a cop shoots someone for no reason, with no provocation is very rare. It is a bit callous but I really do think of the people that act erractic, put their hands in and out of their pockets as at least partially if not mostly responsible.

Collateral damage is evens more callous but needed I think. What about the people in the middle east, hiding tanks in schools and complaining that the schools are getting bombed. Crime here hides behind the citizenry the same way.

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"collateral damage" is something Dick Cheney uses. Don't you have more humanity than that?

TrippleDip said:

Blacks and Hispanics are more likely to encounter non-firearm related use of force

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I don't know if this isn't a meaningless stat. If the Hispanic/Black people have higher amount of encounters, they may still have more encounters with a firearm, it is just mostly people comply and get harassed and let go after they were shaken down. When the cops come for a white person, it's usually because someone has called it in I would bet, and its a more serious situation than walking while not white.

TrippleDip said:

There is no difference in firearm related use of force

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Interesting, is that proportional.. may need to just read the paper to know I guess.

TrippleDip said:

There is strong evidence against race being the cause of the discrimination, and evidence for taste based discrimination (ie someone that doesn't speak proper english or follow social norms is more likely to be discriminated against, the black man with bandanna and sagging pants speaking patois is more likely to have force used against him than a black man in a t-shirt that speaks proper english) Not sure this is such a big problem, societal norms have always existed, will always exist, and exist for a reason.

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I am guessing the number of white people with accents is not tested against that theory. Because pretty much all of the people I can think with a accent is not white. So it seems like there would be a massive overlap that would screw up any meaningful stat there unless they tested them against each other.

TrippleDip said:

Use of force is extremely low: A white person has a 0.7 percent chance of experiencing use of force in a police encounter, a POC has about a 2% chance, and a lot of this increase can be attributed to things like more black people in high crime low income neighbourhoods.

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Think this stat is the reverse of the last one. But it is noticeable that it is almost 3x more likely that a POC experiences police force. Maybe if they want to tease out the economic situation to run the numbers of police interactions in trailer parks vs cities. Similar economic groups I would imagine, would give better idea of the POC/white disparity.

TrippleDip said:

It is, there's no easy answers. I know natural selection sounds harsh, but the events where a cop shoots someone for no reason, with no provocation is very rare. It is a bit callous but I really do think of the people that act erractic, put their hands in and out of their pockets as at least partially if not mostly responsible.

Collateral damage is evens more callous but needed I think. What about the people in the middle east, hiding tanks in schools and complaining that the schools are getting bombed. Crime here hides behind the citizenry the same way.

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Cops are humans. Humans that are much more used to intense situations and far better qualified to deal with them than I would ever be. But they are still human, and humans mess up, overreact, or whatever other possibility. I think they need eyes on them with instant feedback to make sure that they don't hurt our communities while trying to help us. We no longer need to just trust police to be superhuman, that is too much pressure to place on their shoulders.

TrippleDip said:

You should take a class on statistics.

1. It's less than 3x
2. What percentage of those times was it justified? Not like there's rap culture telling black youth to assault and shoot cops.
3. What percentage of the time was violence justified but NOT used with black/white/hispanic people?

Again, you seem to be claiming that it's no fault of the people subjected to violence that they were in the police interaction in the first place, also you need to answer the last two questions in order to make any meaningful statement about "fairness" (happiness) or other qualitative statements.

Care to answer the question in the previous post: Do the benifits of the hundreds of millions outweigh the cost to half a million people each year? If not, where exactly is the line?

edit to help you out: the answer to question 2 can be found in the Harvard study. Good luck on number 3, finding statistics on events that didn't happen.

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2% versus 0.7% is three times as often. Having studied for a degree in mathematics with a concentration in statistics and probability, I can tell you that one of the first tricks they teach is about when to round up or down

You are a helpless, cop dicksucking racist, so of course you blame people according to their skin color for this disparity

And no, we will not compromise and settle for a slightly less racist bunch of cops.

Go suck a cops dick you racist clown

"All signs point to Yes"

Police interactions... Well for starters, be white, really white. I was riding with a buddy who is black and when he got pulled over it was a totally different experience than when I get pulled over.

hanimmal said:

it seems like there would be a massive overlap that would screw up any meaningful stat there unless they tested them against each other.

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nice noting the differences in situations and confounding variables. Stats is messy. From the paper

It's also important to note that force goes all the way fron "hands" to shooting, and this makes the data even harder to interpret.

hanimmal said:

I think they need eyes on them with instant feedback to make sure that they don't hurt our communities while trying to help us. We no longer need to just trust police to be superhuman, that is too much pressure to place on their shoulders.

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Yes.

TrippleDip said:

nice noting the differences in situations and confounding variables. Stats is messy. From the paper

"Accounting for baseline demographics such as age and gender, encounter characteristics such as whether individuals supplied identification or whether the interaction occurred in a high- or low- crime area, or civilian behaviors does little to alter the race coefficient. Adding precinct and year fixed effects, which estimates racial differences in police use of force by restricting to variation within a given police precinct in a given year reduces the black coefficient by 19.4 percent and the Hispanic coefficient by 26 percent, though both are still statistically larger than zero. Including more than 125 controls available in the data, the odds-ratio on black (resp. Hispanic) is 1.173 (resp. 1.120)."
*Note that the 17% more likely here would go up if firearms were removed from the picture.
​

It's also important to note that force goes all the way fron "hands" to shooting, and this makes the data even harder to interpret.


Yes.

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You’re citing an institution that says the APA is a reputable and science based organization

So I guess you’ve given up on all your conspiracy theory laden propaganda about your hatred of transgender people

So that’s a good thing even though you still suck cop dick and chug cop piss

UncleBuck said:

you blame people according to their skin color for this disparity

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Stop lying. You are the one blaming the disparity on skin colour. I (and harvard) are blaming it on other factors.
Nobody is saying it is right or just.

TrippleDip said:

Stop lying. You are the one blaming the disparity on skin colour. I (and harvard) are blaming it on other factors.

"On non-lethal uses of force, there are racial differences – sometimes quite large – in police use of force, even after accounting for a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioral factors at the time of the police-civilian interaction. Interestingly, as use of force increases from putting hands on a civilian to striking them with a baton, the overall probability of such an incident occurring decreases dramatically but the racial difference remains roughly constant. Even when officers report civilians have been compliant and no arrest was made, blacks are 21.3 (0.04) percent more likely to endure some form of force. Yet, on the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we are unable to detect any racial differences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls. We argue that these facts are most consistent with a model of taste-based discrimination in which police officers face discretely higher costs for officer-involved shootings relative to non-lethal uses of force."
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Nobody is saying it is right or just.

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You are literally saying police force is justified if the victim is not white

You’re a racist and a dumbass

Obepawn said:

Philando Castile was pulled over for bullshit 42 times in that Minnesota community and his record was clean the day they killed him. Permit to carry, clean record, pulled over 42-times and Black. I don’t need a watch to know what time it is.

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I’m aware that a person of colour is harassed solely based on colour, it’s not hard to be, the numbers prove it beyond a doubt. My discussion was solely based on the video and not society as a whole, which is totally fucked. When I watched the video on my phone, colour was never in my mind as a cause for the escalation, should it have been? I’m not sure now. 30 years ago, if me or one of my peers talked to a cop here like she did and didn’t comply I’m thinking the same thing would have happened and did but typically just a beating and not an arrest, different times.

Budley Doright said:

I’m aware that a person of colour is harassed solely based on colour, it’s not hard to be, the numbers prove it beyond a doubt. My discussion was solely based on the video and not society as a whole, which is totally fucked. When I watched the video on my phone, colour was never in my mind as a cause for the escalation, should it have been? I’m not sure now. 30 years ago, if me or one of my peers talked to a cop here like she did and didn’t comply I’m thinking the same thing would have happened and did but typically just a beating and not an arrest, different times.

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That was not for you bro, it for the other guy

Budley Doright said:

Why is it fucked up? It was profiling but no where have I stated that I had/have had it anywhere close to what happens with people of colour and how much they are profiled, i actually have no ideal how I would react if it happened on a daily basis. Your right I may not be quite as respectful.

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You can cut your hair, not saying you should but it’s something you have control of. So it’s fcked up to compare that to the lifelong abuse that people of color experience.

So a white person has a 0.7% chance to experience use of force and a POC (first time seeing that) has 2% and you don’t think that is huge? So if your stopped a dozen times a year how does that add up to the white guy who is stopped once a decade?

DaFreak said:

You can cut your hair, not saying you should but it’s something you have control of. So it’s fcked up to compare that to the lifelong abuse that people of color experience.

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I wasn’t comparing, where did I compare anything? Where did I say I experienced anything a person of colour endures?

zeddd said:

Circular reasoning anti-logic from a pseudo-intellectual child rapist apologist.

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Which part of what I said is inaccurate ?

I'm not a child or any kind of rapist apologist. Rapist don't care about consent, I do.

You're not being an apologist for cops when they violate people by "just doing their jobs" are you?

TrippleDip said:

It is, there's no easy answers. I know natural selection sounds harsh, but the events where a cop shoots someone for no reason, with no provocation is very rare. It is a bit callous but I really do think of the people that act erractic, put their hands in and out of their pockets as at least partially if not mostly responsible.

Collateral damage is evens more callous but needed I think. What about the people in the middle east, hiding tanks in schools and complaining that the schools are getting bombed. Crime here hides behind the citizenry the same way.

Click to expand...

So if the neighborhood murderer was hiding in the house next to yours, you'd be okay with the cops blowing up your house too, as long as they "got the bad guy" ?

TrippleDip said:

Stop lying. You are the one blaming the disparity on skin colour. I (and harvard) are blaming it on other factors.

"On non-lethal uses of force, there are racial differences – sometimes quite large – in police use of force, even after accounting for a large set of controls designed to account for important contextual and behavioral factors at the time of the police-civilian interaction. Interestingly, as use of force increases from putting hands on a civilian to striking them with a baton, the overall probability of such an incident occurring decreases dramatically but the racial difference remains roughly constant. Even when officers report civilians have been compliant and no arrest was made, blacks are 21.3 (0.04) percent more likely to endure some form of force. Yet, on the most extreme use of force – officer-involved shootings – we are unable to detect any racial differences in either the raw data or when accounting for controls. We argue that these facts are most consistent with a model of taste-based discrimination in which police officers face discretely higher costs for officer-involved shootings relative to non-lethal uses of force."
​

Nobody is saying it is right or just.

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I skimmed that paper, it would be interesting to see a by sex breakdown of the incidents by race too. It might show if it is more likely to occur towards white women more than white males, and how those stats would stack up to each other.

Most people I know that are bullies are bullies to people they think they have some superiority towards, like women and minority communities.

Edit: The more I look at that paper, the more I think that is a missed opportunity to test the difference when you add in white women to the POC group as well.