PLEASE HELP!! wk 6 look like they are dying

J

John1961

Well-Known Member
Please correct me if I'm wrong here but I hope to help.

You state that the PH of your water going in is about 6.5 and the run-off is about 5.6 (.9 deviation). If you want your soil PH to stay around 6.5 or so, wouldn't you want to adjust the PH of the water going in to 6.5 plus the .9 deviation for a total PH of about 7.4 ? If the soil continues to buffer the PH by about .9, then your run off would be about 6.5, which is optimal, right?

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm battling a PH issue myself and trying to understand the difference between the PH of the water going in versus the PH of the water coming out, and how to adjust accordingly.

I've been religiously watering at 6.5 PH going in with run off hovering under 6.0 and I have the tell-tale signs of a PH imbalance / nutrient lock out (mid-level leaves lightening / getting light green, rust spots between the veins, etc.). I am using a mix of 66% FFOF / 30% perlite.
 
Alexander Supertramp

Alexander Supertramp

Well-Known Member
John1961 said:
Please correct me if I'm wrong here but I hope to help.

You state that the PH of your water going in is about 6.5 and the run-off is about 5.6 (.9 deviation). If you want your soil PH to stay around 6.5 or so, wouldn't you want to adjust the PH of the water going in to 6.5 plus the .9 deviation for a total PH of about 7.4 ? If the soil continues to buffer the PH by about .9, then your run off would be about 6.5, which is optimal, right?

Again, please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm battling a PH issue myself and trying to understand the difference between the PH of the water going in versus the PH of the water coming out, and how to adjust accordingly.

I've been religiously watering at 6.5 PH going in with run off hovering under 6.0 and I have the tell-tale signs of a PH imbalance / nutrient lock out (mid-level leaves lightening / getting light green, rust spots between the veins, etc.). I am using a mix of 66% FFOF / 30% perlite.
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Typical misconception reading run off pH, tells you pretty much zip. You cannot adjust the mediums pH by simply pouring phed water through it. Just dosent work that way. Nor does the run off pH indicate the mediums pH. Both rookie mistakes. pH meters are for hydro growers. EWC and dolomite are for soil growers.
 
grasscropper

grasscropper

Well-Known Member
They look like they are over watered... moisture stress. The other thing I find is the bag pots hold moisture and require less watering. My opinion only. I would water with plain pH'd water and check the run off pH and the TDS of the run off. What's going in to what's coming out. My experience recently with a couple of my plants was I was noticing a deficiency.....what I thought to be a deficiency. Flushed and tested the run off and the TDS (total disolved solids) was 1700 PP Way too much nutrients.. as what was going in was about 700 ppm. pH was 5.8 to 6.1. I don't think flushing was a bad idea at all. Let them dry out well and start fresh. Cut the bad leaves off. I would have kept feeding these plants if I hadn't checked the run off. And the nutrients would have continued to built, pH drop and still I would have thought they were lacking but I believe they were overfed.
From what I have read, soil grows tend to do better with less feeding that more. I am absolutely no expert and still learning as I go along too. Striving to get better with each grow. Hope this helps.
 
growdiesel

growdiesel

Well-Known Member
grasscropper said:
They look like they are over watered... moisture stress. The other thing I find is the bag pots hold moisture and require less watering. My opinion only. I would water with plain pH'd water and check the run off pH and the TDS of the run off. What's going in to what's coming out. My experience recently with a couple of my plants was I was noticing a deficiency.....what I thought to be a deficiency. Flushed and tested the run off and the TDS (total disolved solids) was 1700 PP Way too much nutrients.. as what was going in was about 700 ppm. pH was 5.8 to 6.1. I don't think flushing was a bad idea at all. Let them dry out well and start fresh. Cut the bad leaves off. I would have kept feeding these plants if I hadn't checked the run off. And the nutrients would have continued to built, pH drop and still I would have thought they were lacking but I believe they were overfed.
From what I have read, soil grows tend to do better with less feeding that more. I am absolutely no expert and still learning as I go along too. Striving to get better with each grow. Hope this helps.
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This certainly helps. Thanks allot man. Much appreciated.
 
grasscropper

grasscropper

Well-Known Member
growdiesel said:
This certainly helps. Thanks allot man. Much appreciated.
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I think if you invested in a TDS metre from Ebay or Amazon you would benefit. I just bought a cheapy and it's tought me alot about my tap water, adding nutrients and then the run off. I also have a plant in hydro (DWC) to give this method a try and quite like it. I had nitrogen toxicity.. clawing leaves and dark green plants.
 
growdiesel

growdiesel

Well-Known Member
grasscropper said:
I think if you invested in a TDS metre from Ebay or Amazon you would benefit. I just bought a cheapy and it's tought me alot about my tap water, adding nutrients and then the run off. I also have a plant in hydro (DWC) to give this method a try and quite like it. I had nitrogen toxicity.. clawing leaves and dark green plants.
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Ok...perfect. I'll look into Amazon tonight n get one overnighted.
I don't really know how it's used or it's purpose but I'll look it up n do research.
 
growdiesel

growdiesel

Well-Known Member
grasscropper said:
I think if you invested in a TDS metre from Ebay or Amazon you would benefit. I just bought a cheapy and it's tought me alot about my tap water, adding nutrients and then the run off. I also have a plant in hydro (DWC) to give this method a try and quite like it. I had nitrogen toxicity.. clawing leaves and dark green plants.
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Just ordered tds,ec,and,temp meter all in one it'll b here Saturday.
 
grasscropper

grasscropper

Well-Known Member
It gives you the total dissolved solids in your water. So your tap water will have chlorine, iron and other minerals in it. I get a TDS reading of 138 PPM (parts per million). Then add your nutrients as per directions and measure again TDS. During veg you want 500 - 700 ppm for your nutrient levels. Flowering you want 1000 PPM or just slightly higher. What the metre is telling you is how much nutrients you have in your water. If you water with 700PPM and run off is 1700 (like what happened to me), I'd say it's the nutrients are building up in the soil and the plant then needs to be flushed.
 
grasscropper

grasscropper

Well-Known Member
Like I said I started with one plant in one bucket to try it out. It seems to be with hydro you know where you are at all times with respect to the nutrients aspect. Pop in the TDS metre... does the plant need feeding or not.. generally it seems just a top up of water is the answer. Check the Ph and if it's between 5.8 - 6.4 your good. Res change every week to start and now i am doing it every 2-3...
Also tried a Hempy bucket. Have one plant in this method as well. Not sold here yet but not giving up either. I haven't tried autos in hydro yet either, but have just popped an NL seed and will be harvesting my next batch in a couple of weeks. Will put this auto in there.
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
I got a question... How are you testing your ph. If meter, how do you store it and when did you last calibrate it.
Almost half the grows I get asked to look at are having problems from lazy ph pen maintenance. Also with soil and organics we don't ph anything... Just saying. And yes I've been a hydro and DW guy. Learned from my many mistakes. Best thing is flush with RO water, don't ph or alter in any way. Just rinse. Let uptake most moisture then clean water again. Then if ph pen was the issue you won't do this again. If not pen, after rinse start nutes at half. Probably over nutes or over watered. Need to dry over half moisture before watering again.
 
growdiesel

growdiesel

Well-Known Member
Cannasutraorganics said:
I got a question... How are you testing your ph. If meter, how do you store it and when did you last calibrate it.
Almost half the grows I get asked to look at are having problems from lazy ph pen maintenance. Also with soil and organics we don't ph anything... Just saying. And yes I've been a hydro and DW guy. Learned from my many mistakes. Best thing is flush with RO water, don't ph or alter in any way. Just rinse. Let uptake most moisture then clean water again. Then if ph pen was the issue you won't do this again. If not pen, after rinse start nutes at half. Probably over nutes or over watered. Need to dry over half moisture before watering again.
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Testing with the ph pen style meter. It's brand new, tasted it on my tap which should b about 7 and its always 6.9-7.2 every time.

I ph my nute water and reg water every time.
I flushed about two or three days ago and they haven't gotten any worse yet.,

My temps were 85 n 28-31% humidity.

Put humidifier back I there n rerouted intake n turned down ventilation fan, n now sitting at 75 degrees and 40-45 humidity. Trying too get to 55 though
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
You have to store pen with the right solution. And get the recalibrate liquid and use every week. Tap water is rarely 7. Usually 7.4-8.5 and changes through out the year. So your test for your pen is not good. If you got at hydro store, they will check accuracy and recalibrate the first time for you. Before spending more money check the pen. They look like low ph to me or over watered....
 
grasscropper

grasscropper

Well-Known Member
Which is what I said about pH and soil. Generally you shouldn't have to do anything to the pH in soil as it takes care of itself. But it is always handy to have a ph pen or metre to test your tap water with or without nuts. TDS metre will tell you how much nutrients you have in the water in PPM (Parts per Million) after adding your nutrients.
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
grasscropper said:
Which is what I said about pH and soil. Generally you shouldn't have to do anything to the pH in soil as it takes care of itself. But it is always handy to have a ph pen or metre to test your tap water with or without nuts. TDS metre will tell you how much nutrients you have in the water in PPM (Parts per Million) after adding your nutrients.
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If truly organic you don't worry about TDS in your solution. Nor do we care about EC. And never PH your RO water. Is that OK with you??? Lol. Too many capital letters in one sentence. You measure your stuff. TDS and EC isn't accurate in organics. And plant based nutes are better for plants.
Happy growing..
 
Cannasutraorganics

Cannasutraorganics

Well-Known Member
Jimdamick said:
I think you were on the right track with the salts, as it probably is one of your problems but it sounds like too much, too late. It looks like it could be a mag deficiency (did you use a cal/mag supplement?) I would really like to know the PH of your soil, as that is my bet. Did you add any lime to your soil? There are a couple of things I would recommend you having for long term growing. PH meter you have, a TDS/EC meter for really knowing how much food you are giving them and a soil test kit so you really know what is up with your soil, no guesswork. At this point all I would do is flush the shit out of them, which you did, and don't feed them anything for the remaining 3 weeks or so of their lives.
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No No No. Fix the problem and add nutes slowly back at Lower levels. Without nutes it won't grow much and resin will be light.
 
grasscropper

grasscropper

Well-Known Member
Cannasutraorganics said:
If truly organic you don't worry about TDS in your solution. Nor do we care about EC. And never PH your RO water. Is that OK with you??? Lol. Too many capital letters in one sentence. You measure your stuff. TDS and EC isn't accurate in organics. And plant based nutes are better for plants.
Happy growing..
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Ya it's fine wit h me. I don't grow organic yet. Haven't tried the method. My tap water is 7.2. And TDS of my tap water is 137.
 
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