Please help! My babies are dying!
- Thread starter ns420
- Start date
DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
Im glad you posted. It made me think back to him saying he's been watering by misting the top of the soil. Its possible he's only wetting the top of the soil, but the middle and bottom is bone dry, and well thats where the roots are.
OP, are you able to flip a plant out of a container and check out the bottom of the soil and inspect the roots? See if its bone dry or not?
ns420
Active Member
The roots where wet. It appears the water was not able to drain well and the roots where packing the soil tightly and out of room to grow in all but my smallest (and also happen to be the healthiest looking) plants.
Would it make sense that if the roots ran out of room that the soil would become to tightly packed to drain properly in such small containers?
I am going to transplant them into 1 gallon pots shortly, and pray that they pick back up.
DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
I dont know if how much they can block drainage or not, but it appears you found the problem. Bad drainage leads to all kinds of problems. Was there water pooled in the bottom of the container?
ns420
Active Member
No, no water pooled at the bottom of the containers. The soil slightly is damp, but not soaked.
DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
Weird then. I wouldn't expect plants to be starving for water if its slightly damp, or to cause any over-watering issues either. Hopefully things will improve in bigger pots. Ill keep my fingers crossed for you.
ns420
Active Member
As a bit of an update... the 4 seedlings that where in very bad shape did not survive. I believe they where already too far gone by the time I transplanted them.
The two smallest sprouts (that sprouted last) seem to be doing great after their transplant to one gallon pots.
I believe it was a combination of having containers too small, without ample room for the taproot to develop, and over-watering. Since transplanting them to one gallon pots they have shown a much improved growth rate, with absolutely no stunting from being transplanted at only a week old.
Here are some pics (with lights off), please let me know what you think (also included a pic of the setup I am using now with a 400W Metal Halide that I moved my seedlings under at 14 days old, which was 3 days ago).
These pics are from today, and they are currently 17 days old (from the time I germinated seeds).
One is G13 Labs White Widow and the other is Northern Lights x Skunk.
The two smallest sprouts (that sprouted last) seem to be doing great after their transplant to one gallon pots.
I believe it was a combination of having containers too small, without ample room for the taproot to develop, and over-watering. Since transplanting them to one gallon pots they have shown a much improved growth rate, with absolutely no stunting from being transplanted at only a week old.
Here are some pics (with lights off), please let me know what you think (also included a pic of the setup I am using now with a 400W Metal Halide that I moved my seedlings under at 14 days old, which was 3 days ago).
These pics are from today, and they are currently 17 days old (from the time I germinated seeds).
One is G13 Labs White Widow and the other is Northern Lights x Skunk.
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DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
Its nice to see that you had a couple of survivors. They're looking much better now. Just give them good care and eventually you will get there.
You should put more soil into your future pots though. Theres no reason to put them so low in the container. With them that low, they really dont get any wind. Also drill extra drainage holes in your pots if you haven't already(wouldn't do it now though, wait till transplant again later on). Your roots will thank you for the increased drainage and aeration. You may also want to tilt the pots sideways after they finish dripping from watering. I do this, and theres always excess water that drains out. Avoid any over-watering and you'll have a much more problem free grow. Its amazing how many problems arise just from over-watering.
You should put more soil into your future pots though. Theres no reason to put them so low in the container. With them that low, they really dont get any wind. Also drill extra drainage holes in your pots if you haven't already(wouldn't do it now though, wait till transplant again later on). Your roots will thank you for the increased drainage and aeration. You may also want to tilt the pots sideways after they finish dripping from watering. I do this, and theres always excess water that drains out. Avoid any over-watering and you'll have a much more problem free grow. Its amazing how many problems arise just from over-watering.
ns420
Active Member
Thank you for all the advice, I will definitely keep it all in mind!
I will definitely plant them deeper and add a few extra drain holes when I transplant to 5 gallon pots (which i plan on doing 10 days or so before moving them over to 12/12 for flower).
If you notice anything else that I might want to think about please let me know. Thanks again man.
DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
I hope you didn't mean they're getting ten more days of veg, then getting flowered right after that.
DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
Oh okay gotcha. GL from here on out.
VertFarmer
Active Member
My take on it is that you killed them with too much light, plain and simple. You had 115 Watts just 1-2 inches from a handful of tiny seedlings, which was not needed at all. I grew some seedlngs into dense and super healthy little 4 node bushes under 2*18W 2ft flos which shows that small plants don't need a lot of light. It was too early to worry about stretch too, as each strain will stretch a certain amount. After that it will completely halt stretching and start producing leaves. You tried to stop a stretch that the plant was genetically programmed to do before producing fan leaves and that would have stopped automatically with a little patience. The transplant imo was also unwarrented and only caused more harm, as the little containers could have supported the plants for a week or two more without any problems. At that size the roots are only a couple of inches long so you didn't need any more root space. Half the wattage at 20-30 cms above the plants could have saved them me thinks. Well you live and learn, if it was easy it wouldn't be as fascinating a hobby (except for smoking all that easy grown weed of course lol). I've only just started growing, but using a bubbler and the 2*18W flos have given me real confidence in making my plants survive. Last week I germed 15 Critical Mass and 2 Chronic seeds and now have the 17 happy and healthy seedlings (actually 18 as I got twins
. I think a lot of soil growers could benefit from starting in a bubbler/dwc and when the roots are nice a dense move to the preferred soil medium. It's just very easy to control their environment this way.
One more tip, which is what I did. I didn't feel like making my inevitable first mistakes on super expensive seeds, so I made some test runs on bird cannabis seeds, just to get confortable with germing a getting to the stage of healthy vegging plants.
Stay safe,
-- VertFarmer
. I think a lot of soil growers could benefit from starting in a bubbler/dwc and when the roots are nice a dense move to the preferred soil medium. It's just very easy to control their environment this way.One more tip, which is what I did. I didn't feel like making my inevitable first mistakes on super expensive seeds, so I made some test runs on bird cannabis seeds, just to get confortable with germing a getting to the stage of healthy vegging plants.
Stay safe,
-- VertFarmer
DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
I know you're trying to be helpful, but be serious. Lighting didn't kill his plants. Did you see how stretchy some of them were? Theres no way he "kill his plants with too much light" with them being stretchy.My take on it is that you killed them with too much light, plain and simple. You had 115 Watts just 1-2 inches from a handful of tiny seedlings, which was not needed at all. I grew some seedlngs into dense and super healthy little 4 node bushes under 2*18W 2ft flos which shows that small plants don't need a lot of light. It was too early to worry about stretch too, as each strain will stretch a certain amount. After that it will completely halt stretching and start producing leaves. You tried to stop a stretch that the plant was genetically programmed to do before producing fan leaves and that would have stopped automatically with a little patience. The transplant imo was also unwarrented and only caused more harm, as the little containers could have supported the plants for a week or two more without any problems. At that size the roots are only a couple of inches long so you didn't need any more root space. Half the wattage at 20-30 cms above the plants could have saved them me thinks. Well you live and learn, if it was easy it wouldn't be as fascinating a hobby (except for smoking all that easy grown weed of course lol). I've only just started growing, but using a bubbler and the 2*18W flos have given me real confidence in making my plants survive. Last week I germed 15 Critical Mass and 2 Chronic seeds and now have the 17 happy and healthy seedlings (actually 18 as I got twins
One more tip, which is what I did. I didn't feel like making my inevitable first mistakes on super expensive seeds, so I made some test runs on bird cannabis seeds, just to get confortable with germing a getting to the stage of healthy vegging plants.
Stay safe,
-- VertFarmer
My seedlings are under 400w MH as soon as they break the surface around 14 inches away and they dont stretch whatsoever, yet they grow just fine without any damage from the lights.
I dont buy this "genetically programmed to stretch" crap either. They stretch because theres not enough light not. Give em enough and they'll focus on growing instead of stretching.
VertFarmer
Active Member
Maybe you're right, I'm just a newbie, but to me it seems like overkill with all of that light for tiny seedlings.
My last couple of seedlings were under 36W flos and didn't stretch after they reached ~4".
Something did fry his plants however, so if not light, perhaps too rich a soil.
My last couple of seedlings were under 36W flos and didn't stretch after they reached ~4".
Something did fry his plants however, so if not light, perhaps too rich a soil.
DaveCoulier
Well-Known Member
If he over-watered, his plants will get fried that way. They can't uptake water anymore, yet they still transpire, so they end up essentially drying out and dieing. This is an extreme case, and he would have had to continually over-water. Whatever the cause was, it looks like he's got things figured out.
I get great results using Jiffy pellets in cheep plastic propagators with the vents shut and the low energy bulbs around 100mm above the propagator, 90-100% success with cuttings and seeds, Soak The pellets until they swell fully in clean room temperature water, spin in an old cloth or net to remove excess water,(do not squeeze to avoid compacting soil) make hole with straw sized dibber, clones can be dipped into rooting hormone, and just gently pushed into jiffy, seeds need hole blocking to help shed seed husk as it pulls through soil. use mister and keep moist, better with lots of cuttings/seedlings to keep humidity in propagator high,add a container of water if you are only growing a couple of plants,You can get soil or cooca jiffy pellets for compost or hydroponic grows. quickest and easiest method I have ever used
