PLEASE!!!HELP!!!ASAP!!! Multiple Strains...Multiple Problems...Need a Guru!

Sorry if this posting gets long, but want to provide as much information as possible in hopes of HELP! I'm not new to growing, but been out of it for a little while until I finally moved back to a "civilized" state where I can legally provide for my own medication. This is my very first grow in my new "dream grow environment" which I spent considerable time, money, and effort on.

Am running 4 1000w air-cooled lights over an 8' x 8' table. Total cubic feet of growroom is 12'Lx18'Wx8"high=1,728. All vent fittings are 8". Am drawing in fresh air through a 8" passive intake with a 945cfm fan on variable controller. Set-up was a nightmare. Am in a commercial/industrial space with acoustic drop ceiling which had to be sealed. No easy feat, but finally got it done. Am in a mountain state in a VERY arid environment. Hygrometer doesn't even register, but I have installed a humidifier which is putting at least a gallon of moisture into the room per day.

Brought 31 clones in 9 days ago, which were in questionable shape at best, but still appeared viable. Am working with Northern Lights, Super Silver Haze, ChemDog, Sour Kush and a "purple" hybrid of Sour Diesel. Immediately transplanted into 1 gal. pots, am using ProMix HP, mixed with 2 parts worm castings and 2 parts perlite, and placed under a 400W MH. I am using almost all organic Botanicare nutes and supplements. Fed them with a 1/4 strength solution, 640PPM, 6.3Ph of Botanicare ProGrow 3-2-4, Botanicare Organic Compost Solution 1/.05/1, a little Budswel, Liquid Karma and 1/8 tspn of Superthrive.

Plants continued to look poorer and poorer, was not sure what to do, and finally tried the last ditch measure of flushing. Poured 4 gals. of 6.3Ph water through each pot. Was scared to death of drowning them, but fortunately the ProMix is a VERY high porosity medium. Didn't feed anything for the next couple of days, but did foliar feed a couple of times with a 1/4 strength solution of the above mixture.

It's been 8 days now, and they still look AWFUL. Lifeless, leaves drooping, no vibrant green growth, plants are stunted, stalled, and just plain sick.

Am attaching photos of the babies. Can somebody...anybody...PLEASE help me get a handle on what's going on here? Stinky, I've been reading these posts for a LONG time, and you seem to consistantly give good advice based on sound knowledge and experience, so any input at all you might have would be MOST welcome!

Thank-You!!!!!

First thing I would do is get them in 7-10 gallon smart pots; they're rootbound and appear waterlogged. Remove the reflective material from under the plants as they do not much appreciate the sun coming from the ground and the sky; above and sides is a big plenty.

Bigger pots and more roots are what you need the most. Oh yeah, and ease up on the fertilizer until the plants are asking you for it. I'd give them some vitamin B1 to help them get over the transplant shock too...

Nice room and equipment!

that was the 1st thing that came to mind when i seen the size difference in pots and plants

boxorain said:

First thing I would do is get them in 7-10 gallon smart pots; they're rootbound and appear waterlogged. Remove the reflective material from under the plants as they do not much appreciate the sun coming from the ground and the sky; above and sides is a big plenty.

Bigger pots and more roots are what you need the most. Oh yeah, and ease up on the fertilizer until the plants are asking you for it. I'd give them some vitamin B1 to help them get over the transplant shock too...

Nice room and equipment!

Click to expand...

Thanks boxorain, had the 6mil. plastic on everything just for general cleanliness, but will remove asap. As far as root issue, I'm inclined to agree with you, even as I was first transplanting the clones from Solo cups, root development was not AT ALL impressive. But as far as placing them in bigger pots right now, you think really? I always heard rule of thumb was 1 gal. per foot of vertical growth, and over half of these sick babies are less than 4" tall, the three tallest only 12". Think they could really already be rootlocked? Root growth was poor at first, and can't see them running out of space in the 9 days I've had them in the 1 gal. pots. But anything is possible, and I'm willing to try anything at this point. As far as waterlogged, I've had them under 24hr. MH's since I flushed. The ProMix HP seems to be drying very quickly, the larger plants that are actually feeding are almost dry now. Not sure what to do next...Thanks again!

Smart pots...aren't those sort of like those fabric containers? Never used them. Are they easier to work with? Seems that they might provide better aeriation than the standard black nursery pots I use.

Excuse me, should have said "rootbound" not "rootlocked"...big difference.

I would also suggest adding an extra day in between waterings. Seems the above advice should solve the problem though.

Like, I guess a couple more of my biggest questions would be...1. Will they live? 2. How much time anticipated b4 I should see recovery and/or improvement? I'm stressin!

Don't worry to much man... the worst thing you can do is over think the problem and try and fix it quick only to have things backfire and make it worse! Take your time, be patient, and it will turn out good

Nice set up by the way.

Thanks for the encouragement. Guess I'm just sorta bummed 'cause this is my first grow in the kind of room(s) that I always wanted to put together. I have a separate 12' x 14' room set up for mothers and cloning, 2 600W MH and a custom built rack with room for 8 humidomes using 4' shop lights with great T8 bulbs I found online with a 6500K temp/color that are great for cloning.

Just wondering, think I should really go ahead and put those little babies in the 5 gal. pots that I have for them?

Stop flapping my friend. The clones were probably abused and not taken care of properly before they came to you..... Shocked. Those babies are not in such a bad state, I have nursed much worse back to health. IMHO don't repot until you see a good amount of roots pushing through the bottom and hitting the pot walls, keep em in those pots. Go by weight of the pots with regards to watering, hang fire until they feel close to dry, get those roots searching for water(at that size they should only need water every 3-4 days, longer if growth not kicked in). Keep the superthrive coming and Rhizotonic (or similar) but go easy on the other nutes until growth kick starts again. Are you letting them sleep? Alot of peeps go 24/24 light but I swear by letting them sleep for 6hrs.

These plant are weeds, they are very resiliant and 9/10 when a plant dies it's down to the grower, to much love and attention. Keep it simple and let time do it's thing, they will be fine.

Thanks Mr. MeanGreen. I am working hard to resist the urge to "love them to death"! Just would love to see even a hint of improvement. And, yes, the clones had been abused, which leads me to another question...let's say I can nurse them back to a healthy vegative state, I would like to take a couple of clones of each strain to keep as mothers. Would my cloned plants also exhibit these problems because of the stress that these had been through, or would they be o.k.? Am also attaching a few more photos where you might be able to see the issues a little more clearly.

Thanks again for the input and encouragement.

P.S....I'm with you on letting them "rest" a few hours a day. I've read lots of opinions on both sides of the 16/8 24hr. veg. light cycles, and science behind the both of them. Just always seemed to have as good or better growth rate going 16/8 as some of my peers who go 24/7. Especially since they have seemed so "fragile", I've been turning off the lights for a few hours each day, and lightly foliar feeding just a little while b4 turning the lights back on.

One problem I have though, is that I live in a VERY cold (and DRY) high-mountain climate. Temps outside are pretty frigid. Right now, I'm just running 2 of my 4 1000w lights, and they are air cooled. With no a/c and 2 lights goin', and cold air coming in through an 8" passive air intake, temps stay at around a perfect 75deg., but shortly after turning the lights out, within an hour or 2 temps go down to under 55, then I freak out, and open the door to let in warm air from my living space into the room, sort of defeating the whole purpose of a sealed room, and all that money on carbon filters, etc., and I'm afraid to just chill and sit back and see just how low the temps would go without my intervention! Am thinking about putting in a small space heater set on a timer to come on an hour or so after the lights go out, and then go off just a little while b4 the lights come back on...any thoughts?

mikahdale said:

P.S....I'm with you on letting them "rest" a few hours a day. I've read lots of opinions on both sides of the 16/8 24hr. veg. light cycles, and science behind the both of them. Just always seemed to have as good or better growth rate going 16/8 as some of my peers who go 24/7. Especially since they have seemed so "fragile", I've been turning off the lights for a few hours each day, and lightly foliar feeding just a little while b4 turning the lights back on.

One problem I have though, is that I live in a VERY cold (and DRY) high-mountain climate. Temps outside are pretty frigid. Right now, I'm just running 2 of my 4 1000w lights, and they are air cooled. With no a/c and 2 lights goin', and cold air coming in through an 8" passive air intake, temps stay at around a perfect 75deg., but shortly after turning the lights out, within an hour or 2 temps go down to under 55, then I freak out, and open the door to let in warm air from my living space into the room, sort of defeating the whole purpose of a sealed room, and all that money on carbon filters, etc., and I'm afraid to just chill and sit back and see just how low the temps would go without my intervention! Am thinking about putting in a small space heater set on a timer to come on an hour or so after the lights go out, and then go off just a little while b4 the lights come back on...any thoughts?

Click to expand...

Don't worry, stress does not imprint on it's genetics, ya clones will be good as gold. With regards to temp drop at night, I have the same problem during winter and whist ya babies expect a temp drop at night and can even cope with a freeze (1 at a push), they don't like low ow temps much. A simple fix is a heat rod or 2. About £20 on ebay for a 2ft, stick a few of them in at floor level on a timer for lights out and that should keep the nip out of the air. Hope this helps.

hey mikahdale hope your doing better... in my opinion it looks like you might be over feeding it, and if that is not the case then i would check the ppm and ph of the runoff.. i kinda had the same problem for a second till i checked the runoff and realized the ph was off.. just cause you give it 6.2, 6.3 or whatever doesnt mean its at that level.. check the runoff and youll get more answers.. if your ph is real high for example 6.9, 7.0 id give it 5.9 to try and bring it down to 6.0.... my plants thrive around 5.9 -- 6.3

those plants are just a little shocked man. resist the urge to coddle them. using 4 different fertilizers is not what your plants need right now. get some simple, organic high nitrogen fertilizer to get them vegging. the droopy leaves on the bigger plants is from cold shock. i have the same thing going on with every one of my outdoor plants when it gets too cool at night. do NOT transplant them right now. theres no way they're rootbound - you just transplanted them, and they are probably still adjusting from that too. you're soil looks bone dry too. don't be too afraid to overwater with that much perlite in your mix. they look okay though. all they need is time

Ditto on the transplant. Not potbound. Your setup is first rate. But I think your knowledge of basic soil biology is lacking. Your mix is rich in N but lacks dolomite lime, humid acid and azomite. Cheap and easy to add and available from amazon. Mb you thought the added fertilizers would be enough? Please don't flush anymore and lose the term all together. You grow in soil. The great mitigator.
I think you have some reading to do and here is a good place to start.

https://www.rollitup.org/subcools-old-school-organics/338384-2010-revised-super-soil-recipe.html

Thanks to all for responding. Well, I got up this morning, and my babies don't appear any better yet, but I am going to continue to resist the urge to try for quick fixes. As far as growing in soil, "the great mitigator", I was under the impression that I am no longer actually growing in "soil", per se, and that's another thing that's had me a little confused. I am using ProMix HP (High Porosity) which is about 80% Canadian Peat and 20% perlite. I added another 2 parts perlite, and 2 parts worm castings, and 1tbsp of powdered dolomite lime per each gallon of earth. Essentially it is an inert growing medium, with dolomitic lime premixed into it to counteract the natural acidity of the peat. Which leads me to another question, since I flushed them all, is all of my dolomite lime and worm castings gone? Should I be thinking of a way to get some of that back into my medium?

As far as doing a ph test, I test everything that goes in them (checking Ph AFTER adding the nutes), but how can you actually do a "soilPh" test on what is essentially just peat moss and perlite? I have a probe and a meter for "soil" but requires you to mix up a small "mud" sample for testing. In regards to checking run-off, haven't done that yet for 2 reasons...1. In order to even GET some runoff to test, it would require me to add even more water to plants which I was already afraid were waterlogged, and 2. I've read in many places that runoff test results useless due to many varying factors, and you could do 2 tests in 2 minutes to the same plant, and get different results.

In regards to nitrogen, I had considered that as well, but what would be the best way to get some nitrogen quickly to the roots, without taking a chance on burning them if I'm wrong? ? I've heard everything from urine to coffee grounds and bloodmeal. Would one of these work best for me? Or maybe even just a very diluted solution of some kind of MiracleGrow, or something high in Nitrogen? My Hydro shop is closed today, but Wally World is open 24/7...any thoughts?

And thanks again to all for your feedback!

mikahdale said:

Thanks to all for responding. Well, I got up this morning, and my babies don't appear any better yet, but I am going to continue to resist the urge to try for quick fixes. As far as growing in soil, "the great mitigator", I was under the impression that I am no longer actually growing in "soil", per se, and that's another thing that's had me a little confused. I am using ProMix HP (High Porosity) which is about 80% Canadian Peat and 20% perlite. I added another 2 parts perlite, and 2 parts worm castings, and 1tbsp of powdered dolomite lime per each gallon of earth. Essentially it is an inert growing medium, with dolomitic lime premixed into it to counteract the natural acidity of the peat. Which leads me to another question, since I flushed them all, is all of my dolomite lime and worm castings gone? Should I be thinking of a way to get some of that back into my medium?

As far as doing a ph test, I test everything that goes in them (checking Ph AFTER adding the nutes), but how can you actually do a "soilPh" test on what is essentially just peat moss and perlite? I have a probe and a meter for "soil" but requires you to mix up a small "mud" sample for testing. In regards to checking run-off, haven't done that yet for 2 reasons...1. In order to even GET some runoff to test, it would require me to add even more water to plants which I was already afraid were waterlogged, and 2. I've read in many places that runoff test results useless due to many varying factors, and you could do 2 tests in 2 minutes to the same plant, and get different results.

In regards to nitrogen, I had considered that as well, but what would be the best way to get some nitrogen quickly to the roots, without taking a chance on burning them if I'm wrong? ? I've heard everything from urine to coffee grounds and bloodmeal. Would one of these work best for me? Or maybe even just a very diluted solution of some kind of MiracleGrow, or something high in Nitrogen? My Hydro shop is closed today, but Wally World is open 24/7...any thoughts?

And thanks again to all for your feedback!

Click to expand...

PMSL............. Nice retort. Put that in your pipe and smoke it dannyboy602

Each to there own with grow medium which is precisely why I stick with good old faithful soil, may have it's pitfalls but very forgiving. Aero my clones, soil the rest. KISS as they say.