Plant symptoms help

So I've been trying to determine what kind of issues I've been having with my plants and I've searched around as well as asked on my own grow journal but I can't find some good solid answers, so I'm now posting here.

I am now in week 2 of flower, going on week 3. I've seen some of my lowest fan leaves begin to yellow and I believe it's maybe that they are simply done with their function. I gave a light feeding most recently that included a small amount of Stump Tea Veg boost (10-0-0) and I saw 'the claw' in the mid leaves appear which would indicate an excess of nitrogen, only the tips of the leaves bent downward. I believe I am also seeing a slight calcium deficiency with the small necrotic spots. In the new growth shoots, the tips of the leaves curl up and turn greyish. I also see what looks like something like nutrient burn on the tips, but maybe not? I also see a few leaves on the younger growth that look eaten or torn, not sure what that's about since I see nothing other than FG.

I do have a small fungus gnat infestation but will be treating with cinnamon tomorrow. I gave one treatment with neem, aloe and horsetail.

My soil mix consists of the following:
30% Perlite
5.5% Vermiculite
30% Sphagnum peat w/ dolomitic lime
16.6% EWC
15% coconut coir
2.7% inoculated Biochar

I'm feeding with a line of BioBizz nutes (BioGrow, BioHeaven, BioBloom), as well as compost teas, SST, LABs, aloe, horsetail. I made a topdressing of 4L of EWC, 6tbsp bone meal, 5tbsp powdered oyster shells, 3tbsp Epsom salt, 2tbsp Roots Organic Uprising Grow.

Please, any and all help is much appreciated. Thank you.

Some more photos:

It looks like you may have a few different problems going on here. First, the picture with the leave that looks burnt and the other picture with leaves that are extremely curled: That looks like light or sun burn. Are you growing indoor or outdoor? If you are using lights, how far are they from the tops of your plants?

I see some of the leaves have little bite marks/holes/spots on them as well as some wilting, which is a problem I just had to eradicate with my current grow. This could be aphids or some other small pest. If you look really closely at the leaves that are wilted you can sometimes see the green aphids on them. You can use the neem oil for this, but you will need to spray on once a day for up to 7 days or once you see some improvement. Just no longer than 7 days I would say.

There could be some slight nutrient burn. Did you do a flush before you started the flower stage? You may be experiencing a build up of salts and nutes in your soil.

They are indoor, under Northern Grow Lights COB LEDs. The tops of the plants are pretty close but healthy looking, the burnt tips are lower down. I'll take some measurements... The really curled up leaves are on tops that have all been highly shaded, pushing up through the foliage to reach light. It seems this variety likes being topped or having some training. Two of the plants were LST and all their tops are much healthier in appearance. I just looked closely and don't see any aphids but I'll keep a close eye. That issue hasn't seemed to progress much however. I didn't know I would need to repeat neem treatment daily for a period to be truly effective...

Is it safe to use in flowering? Some people say not late into flowering cause it's a neurotoxin...


I've not flushed at all. When I water I don't usually water to the point of runoff. The next time I water I will do that though. I looked at some of my petioles now and they are turning red. I think with my genetics they are naturally purplish, as they've been that way since a fairly young age. Though I'm seeing a bit more reddening now which could be phos, right? Also that picture of the fan leaf I'm holding looks to be phos perhaps.

I just gave them a compost tea application today with EWC, LAB culture, liquid kelp, molasses, organic beet juice and horsetail tea. I guess I could flush as soon as tomorrow but don't want to cause any root rot. Been watering/feeding every other day as the pots seem dry by weight by that time.

It could be that those parts of the plant are not receiving enough light so if you can adjust the plant or train it more towards the lights that can help.

With the neem oil I would only use it towards the beginning of flower, never towards the end. And when using, make sure to apply sparingly and to not mix to strong of a ratio. If you aren't seeing any aphids then I would hold off using that. Using daily tends to be for a bad infestation. If it is minor, you can use more sparingly. Like every 3-4 days until you see improvement.

Now that you mention it, I would say there is definitely a phosphorous deficiency which could be a lot of the problem here. Have you been PHing your nutes mix? Also are you giving PH'd waterings in-between nutes feedings? It could just be that the plant isn't absorbing the phos because of the PH.

Alos, for the nutrients you should aim for 2 feedings per week max. Using PH'd water in-between when water is necessary. I would wait to flush once the plants are ready for water again. The last thing you want is to overwater at this point. Hope this helps!

I was under the impression that with organics you don't need to worry so much with pH. This is however not a fully organic grow as I'm still using bottled nutes (of organic origin) but I have usually been pH'ing, well, that is to say, testing the pH. My water is a bit alkaline too so I have just used lime juice to lower it when needed. I've been watering between feedings yes.

ColaKoala13 said:

I was under the impression that with organics you don't need to worry so much with pH. This is however not a fully organic grow as I'm still using bottled nutes (of organic origin) but I have usually been pH'ing, well, that is to say, testing the pH. My water is a bit alkaline too so I have just used lime juice to lower it when needed. I've been watering between feedings yes.

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There are numerous problems here Id say. First you nuked them with way too much N. 2ndly you have more then fungus gnats probably mites and aphids. 3rdly I think they need some p and k. And lastly get a ph meter and check you ph.

Still not seeing any visible pest infestation beyond the FG. I'll keep an eye on it though. Those chewed up leaves haven't progressed much however. I think doing a flush of the pots tomorrow makes the most sense then giving a feeding with adequate P would be the next step as I believe I am seeing some sort of nutrient burn or lock out and P def. Will have to read the pH on the runoff with the type of meter I have now. Ordered a BlueLab soil pH meter and TDS meter which are on their way too.

Ya I would recommend always PH'ing your water/nutes no matter what your set up. And definitely go ahead with that flush as it should do a lot of good. Hope this works out!

Thanks @GreenBoxGrown!

So I gave a soil drench of dechlorinated tap water. I used apple cider vinegar to try and keep the pH at right around 7 and collected the runoff on each plant. The pH reading on the runoff came out to be between 7.5-7.8 on all the plants. I am not so sure how accurate this process was but I will see what I can do to reduce the pH naturally. I'm thinking of using more fungal dominant AACT which I believe will make the soil more acidic.

The plants do seem happy with the flush I did and hopefully that helps. Will continue to keep an eye on things and later in the week give a feeding. About to brew up some cinnamon tea and give that to ward off those damned FG!

Plants are looking rather pale green at 4 weeks into flower with some reddish blotches showing up on leaves. I think it may be a lack of N and K deficiency perhaps, possibly some P. Really gotta work out a good amended soil for next grow, hopefully I can get through this grow though...

Any suggestions?

If you are using synthetic ferts, the addition of molasses you used caused the ph to swin and give you nute lockout. What is the combined NPK value of the ferts you're using? If you're close to flowering you still retain N but at a lower dose and raise P and K a bit.

As a future guideline:
1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leavesfirst.
2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

I'm using BioBizz ferts at the moment. Trying to move away from the bottles. But BioGrow (3-0-8 ) BioBloom (1-2-2). They are technically organic. Why would molasses do that?

Well we do not know the ph of the water you currently use since it'll vary from area to area. Add molasses to that and it can swing the ph into a value that inhibits nutrient uptake.

While technically the nutes you use are organic. They're in a ready use state for your plants. Similar to synthetic ferts


http://www.greenhouse.cornell.edu/crops/factsheets/nitrogen_form.pdf
Read that. Then look up organic and synthetic fertilizer differences

GreenBoxGrown said:

Ya I would recommend always PH'ing your water/nutes no matter what your set up. And definitely go ahead with that flush as it should do a lot of good. Hope this works out!

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I never pH my soil grows - Soil self pH's!
If done right and with care - you don't need to pH synthetic soil grows either!

Aruanda said:

View attachment 3827149 View attachment 3827150 View attachment 3827151 View attachment 3827152 Plants are looking rather pale green at 4 weeks into flower with some reddish blotches showing up on leaves. I think it may be a lack of N and K deficiency perhaps, possibly some P. Really gotta work out a good amended soil for next grow, hopefully I can get through this grow though...

Any suggestions?

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You have the classic too much P too soon issue!

You started a high P bloom food too early! (Not to mention all the topdressing!)

Nutrient companies make feeding charts in a "general" sense. They are NOT (for the most part) marijuana specific! Not to fucking mention you laid bonemeal on the surface.....Whats the P value of that sir? How about the other "organic" materials you added as a top dress?

Think you over did it ???? Yuppers, you did!

Your soil is seriously lacking as a quality base or feeding soil. Your trying to top dress feed and that's a "hot" way to feed. Then you add a liquid nutrient and really pack on the problems......Your soil is simply "too busy" !

Lets see here. Neem and Cinnamon will not control gnats!

The pH of the run off is just that - the pH of the run off and is NOT near the pH of the soil!!

If you built a proper soil and added your nutrition to that, cooked it, and did not use a liquid feed.....You would have been far better!

https://forum.grasscity.com/threads/easy-organic-soil-mix-for-beginners.1116550/

Here is a tutorial for water only soil - organic. Read it and try it.....If you want a base soil with little nutrient.....mix in everything BUT the nutrient mix - viola! Base soil!
In my "base" soils I add the kelp meal and 2 gallons of well composted Steer or cow manure...
I also add a cup of Alfalfa meal....

It gets watered to do a short "cook" with "FULHUMIX" from Bio Ag. The first time in pots with the plants. They get a watering with a basic AACT bio tea - no nutrient tea! They get that every 4 weeks till done.....I do this weather it's a base soil or a full on water only soil...

Horsetail tea is for spraying ON the plant to stop PM....
You never use Epsom directly in or on soil! Always add to water and use as a fast source for Mg.......I'm not a big epsom fan at all. You get PLENTY of it when you build your soils properly. I use it to make a home made formula for "Sweet Raw" and that's about it.
Molasses is for making teas! ALL it will do is feed the micro heard in the soil, and there are better ways to improve the health of your bio heard!
Visit the organic section here for many more informative threads on organics.

Gnats = https://4hydroponics.com/microbe-lift-bmc-2-oz
Organic - BT based = works great!

I'll just bet you have questions - ask away!