phosphorous or magnesium deficiency

I guess not...

Twohearted said:

This is from Canna Gardening, and I think covers what I was referencing.

"The proportions (ratio) of the various nutrient elements are more important for recirculating systems then with any other system. This is because the plant directly influences the composition of the nutrient. Not all nutrients are absorbed with equal ease by the plant. Potassium (K), for example, is absorbed much more easily than Calcium. In a recirculating nutrient solution, the potassium concentration will drop much faster while calcium might accumulate. Another important aspect of the nutrient is the type of nitrogen. If nitrogen is offered in the form of nitrate, the absorption of potassium and calcium will be stimulated while at the same time the pH in the nutrient solution rises; if nitrogen is offered chiefly in the form of ammonium, the result will be the opposite."

here is the whole article linked for reference

Growing on recirculating systems | CANNA Gardening USA

There are a few things you have to take into account when you're growing on a

www.cannagardening.com

Based on the info here I would also agree with DaFreak that the OP is using far too much CalMag based on his feeding ratio. The high CalMag is likely causing other nutrients to be locked out, and then causing further imbalance in the nutrient solution. Remember that PPM is just an overall valuation of dissolved solids, so even at a low PPM there could still be a toxic level of one or even several nutrients.

Based on this additional information I feel pretty confident in my original diagnosis and suggested treatment.

Good luck!

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Ok, that I know, it’s not selective, it’s passive. That’s why ratios are important. From my own experience I can say that I’ve done various reservoir styles through my years, most conservative be using the 100% add back point to change Rez and the other extreme of two cycles with no Rez changes to push the limit and for the majority only Rez changes between crops and I never could see the need for Rez changes in my setup so I don’t think that reservoirs become so unbalanced within a cycle to warrant multiple changes, but I was also running 50 gallons or more.

Hollatchaboy said:

I guess not...

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Not needed

DaFreak said:

Ok, that I know, it’s not selective, it’s passive. That’s why ratios are important. From my own experience I can say that I’ve done various reservoir styles through my years, most conservative be using the 100% add back point to change Rez and the other extreme of two cycles with no Rez changes to push the limit and for the majority only Rez changes between crops and I never could see the need for Rez changes in my setup so I don’t think that reservoirs become so unbalanced within a cycle to warrant multiple changes, but I was also running 50 gallons or more.

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I've done about 50 DWC tub grows and finally just stopped changing nutes ever. I might do a change after the stretch to go full Lucas but only if I'm feeling it. I just monitor the ppm drop and add more nutes in whatever ratio of 3-part I'm using. 1-1-1 for early veg then 3-2-1 for later veg then back to 1-1-1 plus Big Bud a week before the flip then Lucas after the stretch with more BB. Works as good as regular changes and saves me more than 60% of nutes. Especially in the first month of veg there is no good reason to toss out perfectly good nutes every week. That's a scam set up by the nute makers to make you buy more nutes sooner. closer to harves I just remove some of the nutes and top up with RO to lower ppm. A bit of extra S and K maybe. Depends on what the plant tells me it wants.

DaFreak said:

So your claim is people don’t need to adjust at all for RO water? And use 600ppm in dwc? Ok buddy.

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you know what's funny, I used to think just like you, My r/o HAD to have cal/mag, then about 7 yrs ago a member here name of homebrewer told me that my nutes should have enough. I haven't used it since and have never had a cal or mag def. take it for what it's worth.

teddy bonkers said:

you know what's funny, I used to think just like you, My r/o HAD to have cal/mag, then about 7 yrs ago a member here name of homebrewer told me that my nutes should have enough. I haven't used it since and have never had a cal or mag def. take it for what it's worth.

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What line

DaFreak said:

What line

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most all base nutrients should have enough for a plants needs. Personally, I don't use much of anything other than foliage pro and some hpk bat guano in last weeks of flower. I put my time into environment, not over hyped nutrients.

I use GH and it does not, in fact many people use Epsom with it anyway. I don't know your garden, but I do know that many people need to use cal-mag with RO water and that's backed up with them resolving issues by not having it and then using it. So that's just silly to generalize like that, most nutrients have enough. Anybody want to try it without, knock yourself out, but I will tell anybody that they should be prepared for the high probability that they are going to need it.

DaFreak said:

I use GH and it does not, in fact many people use Epsom with it anyway. I don't know your garden, but I do know that many people need to use cal-mag with RO water and that's backed up with them resolving issues by not having it and then using it. So that's just silly to generalize like that, most nutrients have enough. Anybody want to try it without, knock yourself out, but I will tell anybody that they should be prepared for the high probability that they are going to need it.

and sorry dude, but you come off as a person who acts like they know what they are talking about but don't. Like claiming that plants selectively can eat. Are you even in hydro? Doesn't sound like it.

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yeah, I didn't make that selective eating statment, that was another dude. this is my problem with you guys, your reading comprehension sucks ass

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.
NOTE: The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers. Cannabis needs a lot of Magnesium to thrive.
The Flora Micro is providing the Nitrogen and the Magnesium in the proper balance, thus there is no need for the Grow formula and little or no room under the maximum acceptable ppm limit of 1600 @ 0.7 conversion.

Hello friends
am really enjoying watching your dialogue, and think it is all good with whats being said
the reason I advise use 0-5-10 for newly rooted clones is a fear of nute overdose. especially if the plants are under fluoros, or low light levels of hps, say 30 watts per square foot
Once you move to 50watts per square foot of HPS, the plants can metabolize the 0-8-16 very well.
You can feed at higher levels, but if it does not produce higher yields it is a waste of nutes.
imo there is a range of nutes from low to high, that work for cannabis. for example, some folks see very happy plants using 5-5-5 (those are millilites per gallon btw, 5ml=1tsp), but they supplement with epsom salt. I wanted to come up with a plan that allowed for shopping for a minimum of supplies, and the result is the 1-2 ratio of Micro and Bloom in the formulas I have adopted. In order to eliminate the need for epsom salt I used a spreadsheet like weedmonkey’s and determined that if a formula contains 2 teaspoons or more of Bloom, the Mg levels will be above 45ppm, and will prevent any defficiency.
At the other extreme, I used to use 5-10-15, but see no reason to any more since I get the same yield with 0-8-16. Another side benefit of using 0 grow, besides reducing stretch, is that the solution is more pH stable.
some of the original discussions on my nutes formulas are in the epsom salt thread in my sig. btw, in all fairness, they are not “my” formulas, just a collection of ideas and work by many other growers. Just trying to give something back to all those that have helped me all along. Pass it on.
hth
Lucas
LMFAO

teddy bonkers said:

yeah, I didn't make that selective eating statment, that was another dude. this is my problem with you guys, your reading comprehension sucks ass

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You're right, I mistook you for the other guy saying dumb shit. and it's not reading comprehension ffs, it's not paying attention to the avatar. What does reading comprehension have to do with it?

And read what you just wrote....or rather googled and copied and pasted, "The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers" who has reading comprehension problems? FFS
Remember that, has nothing to do with RO either.

DaFreak said:

You're right, I mistook you for the other guy saying dumb shit. and it's not reading comprehension ffs, it's not paying attention to the avatar. What does reading comprehension have to do with it?

And read what you just wrote....or rather googled and copied and pasted, "The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers" who has reading comprehension problems? FFS
Remember that, has nothing to do with RO either.

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no pro uses manufactures recommended feeding. couldn't find a use cal/mag quote anywhere. Ok. I'm done. Hopefully this guy can get his plants back on track and you guys can get more cal/mag bottles

DaFreak said:

You're right, I mistook you for the other guy saying dumb shit. and it's not reading comprehension ffs, it's not paying attention to the avatar. What does reading comprehension have to do with it?

And read what you just wrote....or rather googled and copied and pasted, "The Lucas formula eliminates the need for Epsom salts to correct (Magnesium) Mg deficiencies in most normal feeding programs recommended by manufacturers" who has reading comprehension problems? FFS
Remember that, has nothing to do with RO either.

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The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.
you conviently left out the very first line.

@DaFeak, look man, I'm just trying to help dude get his plant back in shape. you recommended lucas formula with cal/mag. in just a quick search, I found that to be wrong. I even just found a link That I thought was going to be on your side, and this is what I found.for coco, you are correct




MisticHaze
1
Dec '18

I’ve heard that you do need Cal/mag if you are using Coco and RO water. It’s a modified version of the Lucas formula called Head’s formula:
Online Hydroponics Shop 59 GHE Lucas Formula - Online Hydroponics Shop 60
Lucas Formula, sometimes known as the Lucas Ratio, is less complicated than it initially seems. It is a basic recipe of nutrients to give your plants.

teddy bonkers said:

no pro uses manufactures recommended feeding. couldn't find a use cal/mag quote anywhere. Ok. I'm done. Hopefully this guy can get his plants back on track and you guys can get more cal/mag bottles

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So now what you’re doing is what’s called back tracking, you said one thing and now you’re adjusting it because you were wrong. Maybe your google powers are weak.

teddy bonkers said:

The lucas formula is normally intended for use with RO or near 0 PPM water.
you conviently left out the very first line.

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Dude listen to yourself, do you even get it? How many ppms is the Lucas formula? It’s a lot higher than what a lot of people recommend on these boards and are afraid of running. So on one hand you’re saying that nutes have it in there so you don’t need cal-mag on them on the other you’re pointing to a formula that is above 1000ppm as prove. Go google kid.

Coco is yet another problem, everybody knows you have to charge it first, but even with other mediums if you are using RO you will very likely find you need to use cal-mag. Your plants will tell you.

DaFreak said:

Dude listen to yourself, do you even get it? How many ppms is the Lucas formula? It’s a lot higher than what a lot of people recommend on these boards and are afraid of running. So on one hand you’re saying that nutes have it in there so you don’t need cal-mag on them on the other you’re pointing to a formula that is above 1000ppm as prove. Go google kid.

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this is where your reading comprehension fails you. I've said it many times now. I am TRYING to get his plant repaired FIRST, then he can dump all the shit on them you or anyone else HE chooses recommend. GET IT? or do you even care if his plants come back? or are you just here so you can fight with everyone in this thread?

Well if he listens to you he’ll have more problems. You don’t deal with any problem in dwc but starving the plants by just giving them water.