personal will

Dislexicmidget2021

Dislexicmidget2021

Well-Known Member
So ,what can we define as personal will,not just free will,But also the will to go on in life despite the hardship that typicaly accompanies it.
Could it be a stubbornness of hope?What if you dont have neither hope nor despair,yet have the will to keep on?Is it just simply choice?Or do we still rely on the term free will and its definition?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
A good deal of it is instinct, operating below the level immediately accessible to decisions of will. The drive to live is surprisingly hard to cancel. My opinion. cn
 
Shannon Alexander

Shannon Alexander

Well-Known Member
That is why I believe so many people fail at killing themselves... Because it's really not that hard of a thing to do if you were serious about it...
 
Dislexicmidget2021

Dislexicmidget2021

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
A good deal of it is instinct, operating below the level immediately accessible to decisions of will. The drive to live is surprisingly hard to cancel. My opinion. cn
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Instinct is a good word for it, or could it be a.k.a. the primordial will?There are some instances where survival is the only option and your only coherent at a certain level due to some form of trauma(-i know im being a bit general here bear with me-)but when one is at such a point I dont think there are any decisions left, I totaly agree that the drive to live is truely astounding and resilient.What about the ability or gumption to push ones self past limits previously perceived, almost a discipline-like will, could this go beyond the free will?Or dose it simply stay free will?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Dislexicmidget2021 said:
Instinct is a good word for it, or could it be a.k.a. the primordial will?There are some instances where survival is the only option and your only coherent at a certain level due to some form of trauma(-i know i'm being a bit general here bear with me-)but when one is at such a point I don't think there are any decisions left, I totally agree that the drive to live is truly astounding and resilient.What about the ability or gumption to push ones self past limits previously perceived, almost a discipline-like will, could this go beyond the free will?Or dose it simply stay free will?
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I'd say a blend. To push yourself past a limit, say in high-level military training or equivalent, would require a partnership between will and animal drive. The will can veto, but it needs the participation of drive to execute. maybe that's part of the point of extreme training: to make that somewhat ecstatic condition familiar and a dependable resource. cn
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
^ I've seen squirrels with full-blown rigor mortis stuck on hydro lines with the 'middle finger' extended on all 4 feet. Uncertain :)
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."
From "Self-Pity" by D.H. Lawrence
 
Dislexicmidget2021

Dislexicmidget2021

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I'd say a blend. To push yourself past a limit, say in high-level military training or equivalent, would require a partnership between will and animal drive. The will can veto, but it needs the participation of drive to execute. maybe that's part of the point of extreme training: to make that somewhat ecstatic condition familiar and a dependable resource. cn
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Nicely put neer.I would like to see opinions about resistance.The will to resist or abstain,say you want to quit smoking cigarrettes or you want to stop certain patterns of thought,sort of like reprogramming a particular tendency within the mind,which happens to be extra difficult more often than not.What is at the center of this sort of commitment?I dont know if it could be called drive and it really dosent seem like free will at this point.But hey,i could be wrong.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Dislexicmidget2021 said:
Nicely put neer.I would like to see opinions about resistance.The will to resist or abstain,say you want to quit smoking cigarrettes or you want to stop certain patterns of thought,sort of like reprogramming a particular tendency within the mind,which happens to be extra difficult more often than not.What is at the center of this sort of commitment?I dont know if it could be called drive and it really dosent seem like free will at this point.But hey,i could be wrong.
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I've wondered something similar, Disl. I struggled to get free of an opiate addiction, and I came to the tentative conclusion that my mind fragmented into two seats of will: the usual, and what I called an "organic consciousness". I posited this as a seat for the "ignore your intention and just get the fix" resistance to simply maintaining my resolve. I don't know if it's real or just self-excusing bullshit however. Maybe, at the resistance point, it's not just one judge up there but several en banc. I'm guessing the folks "with willpower" have found a way to get the bench to return a favorable majority verdict. cn
 
Doer

Doer

Well-Known Member
That's funny, I noticed the same thing with cocaine. It does not take long for the value system to become completely screwed up.
Rent seems like a Dollar and a real dollar is worthless. Won't even buy a line.
 
Dislexicmidget2021

Dislexicmidget2021

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
I've wondered something similar, Disl. I struggled to get free of an opiate addiction, and I came to the tentative conclusion that my mind fragmented into two seats of will: the usual, and what I called an "organic consciousness". I posited this as a seat for the "ignore your intention and just get the fix" resistance to simply maintaining my resolve. I don't know if it's real or just self-excusing bullshit however. Maybe, at the resistance point, it's not just one judge up there but several en banc. I'm guessing the folks "with willpower" have found a way to get the bench to return a favorable majority verdict. cn
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so the organic conciousness,i like the term here, sounds like the part of ones self or mental process that attempts to grow out of a habit and make reform,but if you have a bunch of corrupt judges up there they verdict to do "the usual" everytime,or that its easier to not break this norm so the court is dismissed before it can get started,its screwed up though,especially when you have the hindsight already to know how things will just come back to this again but the decision still goes the same.Ive had that sort of thing occur before,when that happens its like you need to reach the Ive had enough,to the point you make your own reform no matter what misery comes of it,you just know that you dont want that lower level helplessness starring at you any more,maybe this could be the real strength of organic conciousness.Or did i misinterpret what you posted when you were talking about your organic conciousness.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Dislexicmidget2021 said:
so the organic conciousness,i like the term here, sounds like the part of ones self or mental process that attempts to grow out of a habit and make reform,but if you have a bunch of corrupt judges up there they verdict to do "the usual" everytime,or that its easier to not break this norm so the court is dismissed before it can get started,its screwed up though,especially when you have the hindsight already to know how things will just come back to this again but the decision still goes the same.Ive had that sort of thing occur before,when that happens its like you need to reach the Ive had enough,to the point you make your own reform no matter what misery comes of it,you just know that you dont want that lower level helplessness starring at you any more,maybe this could be the real strength of organic conciousness.Or did i misinterpret what you posted when you were talking about your organic conciousness.
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I had it the other way. The rational consciousness seeks reform. The organic consciousness subverts. Mind you, it's purely subjective on my part. cn
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
I don't know if it does or doesn't. It could just be a recovering addict's way of being in denial about experiencing/practicing denial. Recursive logic is cool but not very satisfying ime. Ultimately I still lack the distance, the perspective to know. cn
 
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