Palin On Health Bill

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Parker

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
you stated this in response to my statement that if one would like to enjoy the benefits of living in a society, one must also incur some of the costs that come with living in a society.

progressives like myself like seeing things get better. if there is lead in our pipes making our drinking water unsafe, i want someone to prevent that, and not everyone is a certified home inspector. if private manufacturers build pinto automobiles that blow up when you hit them, i want someone to prevent that, because not everyone has the ability to perform their own crash tests on automobiles. and if granny is going to eat cat food in a shack down by the highway because she is no longer able to work, i want to prevent that by providing a minimum social safety net so she can find a rent-controlled place and eat food subject to certain standards.

i can name a few more, but you get the idea. if you want the benefits of society, you MUST incur some of the costs. thus, taxation.
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The problems you run into are the very same people you want to protect you, cannot. Why can't you sue companies for putting out an unsafe product. Why can't you use an outhouse or have a water tank?

You want to help Granny then why are you backing regulations that hurt dear old granny? Property taxes are flat out theft. Older people on limited income are hurt by this. Look at NY when Clinton revitalized parts of Harlem. The property taxes got so high people had to move. Mainly the elderly who are on a limited income. A place they paid for they now cannot live in because of government. No matter how bad things are, at the end of the day, a person should be safe in the knowledge that the house and property they payed for is still theirs and they have a roof over their head. But the government you want to protect us, has just FORCED us out of our house.

UncleBuck said:
but it is not blind taxation. there is no king. there are publicly elected officials, elected by voting assholes like you and me, who decide what things are useful to have (minimum automobile safety standards, clean drinking water, health care to the elderly, no lead in our paint) and what things are not (at a loss, help me out here).
now, keep in mind, you don't need to incur the costs of these higher standards of living. many places have no income tax. there are places right here in the us of a, like the amish (actually, i'm not sure if they pay taxes, but they don't pay into ss, feel free to google why, it is a good read). but take a look around: when you forgo the costs of society, you also have to forgo the benefits (or be a mooch). those benefits include living longer, healthier and happier, but you don't get to not pay your taxes.

you have the FREEDOM to leave. it is not thievery because you exercise the FREEDOM to stay and subject yourself to the "force" of "thievery" that is our system of elected officials, aka taxation with representation (that rings a bell, i'm thinking founding fathers, revolutionary war, the ORIGINAL tea party, etc).

you subject yourself to the "thievery and force" of taxation with representation by exercising your freedom to stay or leave everyday.
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I guess it is the fault of the rape victim because she subjected herself to walking through a certain neighborhood on her way to work.

you keep repeating this idiotic message. Because you are narrow minded and cannot take the thought process to the next level is not my fault. You are all about force. All the while ignoring the fact that YOUR force is denying me MY freedoms.
Your narrow minded and banal choices of "stay and accept it or leave" are not my choices. Those are the choices that force provides. We were founded as a nation of laws not of men and have gotten away from that. Our founders knew that man all too often, decides in his best interest not in the best interest of others. We are not a democracy where 51 percent can enslave the other 49 percent.

You do not understand what freedom means. Freedom is not something you can pick and choose when to apply. You are no better than the ones who fight against the leglization of pot. Using force because YOU know what is best for others. Proclaiming you stand for Freedom when the reality is you want to apply it ONLY when you see fit.
If you believe in theft and coercion so much why don't you support the ones who do it best. Put all your support into the Gambinos for 2012.
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
You pay lots of taxes UB, don't let them tell you otherwise.

everything is going up in price, not just insurance. I can name 100 items just off the top of my head that doubled in price in the last 10 years, heck the price of a few things have doubled just in the last year alone. Mostly these are the effects of inflation, not greedy corporate executives.
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Speaking of things going up. The cost of a college education has gone up 3 times higher than the cost of living. Good old government is the cause of high proces once again. When government gets involved with their "free money" it distorts the value of commodities. We saw the same thing with the sky rocketing prices of the housing industry. Time after time we see things like this happen but we still have too many sheep who believe the government is going to help us by keeping costs in line.

We are so concerned about Company A earning a big profit we loose site of the fact that Company A is providing us with a good product at a fair price. Isn't that what we are all after?
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Johnnyorganic said:
And...?

Can you disprove anything she said?

Does not Alaska share a border with Canada, and an extremely close maritime boundary with Russia?

Geographically speaking, the United states is very close to Russia.

Choose your battles wisely, Buck.
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Geeze, the absolute lack of intelligence you exhibit in trying to defend Palin is monumental. Why not just say she is a dunce and move on? She is a right wing rail job, period. Find someone worthy of being your next Presidential candidate or forget it. She will never be elected to the office.
Now you can continue to defend her or attack me, either way, you show your ass.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Parker said:
Speaking of things going up. The cost of a college education has gone up 3 times higher than the cost of living. Good old government is the cause of high proces once again. When government gets involved with their "free money" it distorts the value of commodities. We saw the same thing with the sky rocketing prices of the housing industry. Time after time we see things like this happen but we still have too many sheep who believe the government is going to help us by keeping costs in line.

We are so concerned about Company A earning a big profit we loose site of the fact that Company A is providing us with a good product at a fair price. Isn't that what we are all after?
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I really don't get you. It is the schools (Greedy) and the finance companies (Greedy) that have jacked the cost of education. I must agree that maybe some professors get paid way too much, but just like professional atheletes, they have a product to sell, their minds. I don't have the answers, But a start would be more government, not less. Make the government responsible for the financing and with their clout they could bring prices down and keep interest low for the students. By being the only game in town, (sort of like the GI bill only with repay. That is what sent many Baby boomers to college) they could regulate tuition to keep it reasonable. If the school couldn't afford those high priced professors, they would either have to take a pay cut (Like the NFL owners are proposing to their players) or look elsewhere for a job. This prospect of tenure with a guaranteed job for life anbd a high salary with a great retirement may have to go the way of the dinosaur. As we small minded persons have to do, competitive job placement may even raise the bar of excellence for these spoiled professors. Fuck the greedy finance companies with their 10-22% student loans.
BTW, there are a lot of people that can't afford a good product, made by a good company, hence the success of Wal-mart.
 
jeff f

jeff f

New Member
medicineman said:
I really don't get you. It is the schools (Greedy) and the finance companies (Greedy) that have jacked the cost of education. I must agree that maybe some professors get paid way too much, but just like professional atheletes, they have a product to sell, their minds. I don't have the answers, But a start would be more government, not less. Make the government responsible for the financing and with their clout they could bring prices down and keep interest low for the students. By being the only game in town, (sort of like the GI bill only with repay. That is what sent many Baby boomers to college) they could regulate tuition to keep it reasonable. If the school couldn't afford those high priced professors, they would either have to take a pay cut (Like the NFL owners are proposing to their players) or look elsewhere for a job. This prospect of tenure with a guaranteed job for life anbd a high salary with a great retirement may have to go the way of the dinosaur. As we small minded persons have to do, competitive job placement may even raise the bar of excellence for these spoiled professors. Fuck the greedy finance companies with their 10-22% student loans.
BTW, there are a lot of people that can't afford a good product, made by a good company, hence the success of Wal-mart.
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you really have never taken an economics 101 class have you? good god man.

there is so much wrong with your reasoning it would take a precise perfect analysis to keep the rebuttal to less than 190 pages. i really suggest you get a grip with how business, govt, consumers react from different scenarios that you posted in this paragraph above. this is literal hogwash.
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
I really don't get you. It is the schools (Greedy) and the finance companies (Greedy) that have jacked the cost of education. I must agree that maybe some professors get paid way too much, but just like professional atheletes, they have a product to sell, their minds. I don't have the answers, But a start would be more government, not less. Make the government responsible for the financing and with their clout they could bring prices down and keep interest low for the students. By being the only game in town, (sort of like the GI bill only with repay. That is what sent many Baby boomers to college) they could regulate tuition to keep it reasonable. If the school couldn't afford those high priced professors, they would either have to take a pay cut (Like the NFL owners are proposing to their players) or look elsewhere for a job. This prospect of tenure with a guaranteed job for life anbd a high salary with a great retirement may have to go the way of the dinosaur. As we small minded persons have to do, competitive job placement may even raise the bar of excellence for these spoiled professors. Fuck the greedy finance companies with their 10-22% student loans.
BTW, there are a lot of people that can't afford a good product, made by a good company, hence the success of Wal-mart.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind when I give out examples the ones I talk about are not you and me because we are above the human trappings that others fall for. You and I don't make these mistakes it is always the other guy. I say this in jest but you have to realize what human nature is and what people do, NOT what they should do, is at the heart of the problems we have. The free market "guides" people towards better and fairer choices. Options is what makes this country great imo.

You speak of tenure which hurts education as the professor does not have the same incentive to succeed. That is also not free market.

The government loans are fairly low interest rates. It's not the Finance companies who are only at fault. The government sets the table for these companies to make profits.
Believe it or not some companies do not have morals. They can follow the letter of the law but because of loopholes they can also take advantage of it. They are just like people. Company A cheats and fudges a bit. Company B may not want to follow because they have one of the most ethical CEOS in the US but Company C, D, and E are going to take advantage for sure. And why not. We saw what happened to banks that didn't do predatory lending. Nothing "good" happened to them. They did the smart thing in the long run. They kept their heads above water only to see their failed competitors bailed out.

You want to regulate tuition. That would do away with competition. Why does someone else get to set the price of a commodity? Who are they to say what is a fair price for me? Those people can be bought off to keep the price high, I cannot because I want the price low for myself. At the end of the day I know what is best for me. This is especially more so nowadays with the wealth of information at our fingertips.
Universities know the money is there for them so they have no incentive to cut costs. Plus there is an increase in administrative costs to handle the extra work associated with student loans. Prices go up and up.

What has happened with tuition is the same thing that happened with housing. Because of government intervention the price went up. In a free market with a high demand and high supply the prices should fall. The housing industry did the opposite. The cost to build a house fell so why did housing prices rise?
Anytime you give out "free money or free credit" you increase the demand to a level that is higher than normal, and prices increase. People spend a bit more recklessly. You do not have the free market leveling prices. Free money meaning making money available to people who normally don't have access to it. People who get these loans who would not normally qualify did not previously qualify for a reason. That reason is they cannot manage money well so they are a larger risk.

We saw the same thing happen twice during the great depression with FDRs policies. He set wages for people in certain industries. The first time wages went up 24 percent which was followed by an increase in food prices of 22 percent, The ones who didn't get the wage increase were hurt because prices rose and their wages didn't.

So now people who have saved for their kids college and didn't need loans have to pay higher prices because of the "good intentions" of our politicians.

The part that gets me is you have Native American blood in you and YOU want the government to run things. I really don't know why you rely on government. Quit going back to the poisonous well. Haven't you learned?
 
P

Parker

Well-Known Member
jeff f said:
you really have never taken an economics 101 class have you? good god man.

there is so much wrong with your reasoning it would take a precise perfect analysis to keep the rebuttal to less than 190 pages. i really suggest you get a grip with how business, govt, consumers react from different scenarios that you posted in this paragraph above. this is literal hogwash.
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Thats the rub. Too many have been taken by the governments snake oil salesmen with the promise they will take care of us. Too bad they were way off on the costs and the efficiency part.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Parker said:
Keep in mind when I give out examples the ones I talk about are not you and me because we are above the human trappings that others fall for. You and I don't make these mistakes it is always the other guy. I say this in jest but you have to realize what human nature is and what people do, NOT what they should do, is at the heart of the problems we have. The free market "guides" people towards better and fairer choices. Options is what makes this country great imo.

You speak of tenure which hurts education as the professor does not have the same incentive to succeed. That is also not free market.

The government loans are fairly low interest rates. It's not the Finance companies who are only at fault. The government sets the table for these companies to make profits.
Believe it or not some companies do not have morals. They can follow the letter of the law but because of loopholes they can also take advantage of it. They are just like people. Company A cheats and fudges a bit. Company B may not want to follow because they have one of the most ethical CEOS in the US but Company C, D, and E are going to take advantage for sure. And why not. We saw what happened to banks that didn't do predatory lending. Nothing "good" happened to them. They did the smart thing in the long run. They kept their heads above water only to see their failed competitors bailed out.

You want to regulate tuition. That would do away with competition. Why does someone else get to set the price of a commodity? Who are they to say what is a fair price for me? Those people can be bought off to keep the price high, I cannot because I want the price low for myself. At the end of the day I know what is best for me. This is especially more so nowadays with the wealth of information at our fingertips.
Universities know the money is there for them so they have no incentive to cut costs. Plus there is an increase in administrative costs to handle the extra work associated with student loans. Prices go up and up.

What has happened with tuition is the same thing that happened with housing. Because of government intervention the price went up. In a free market with a high demand and high supply the prices should fall. The housing industry did the opposite. The cost to build a house fell so why did housing prices rise?
Anytime you give out "free money or free credit" you increase the demand to a level that is higher than normal, and prices increase. People spend a bit more recklessly. You do not have the free market leveling prices. Free money meaning making money available to people who normally don't have access to it. People who get these loans who would not normally qualify did not previously qualify for a reason. That reason is they cannot manage money well so they are a larger risk.

We saw the same thing happen twice during the great depression with FDRs policies. He set wages for people in certain industries. The first time wages went up 24 percent which was followed by an increase in food prices of 22 percent, The ones who didn't get the wage increase were hurt because prices rose and their wages didn't.

So now people who have saved for their kids college and didn't need loans have to pay higher prices because of the "good intentions" of our politicians.

The part that gets me is you have Native American blood in you and YOU want the government to run things. I really don't know why you rely on government. Quit going back to the poisonous well. Haven't you learned?
Click to expand...
Wow, you actually engaged me in a civil conversation, I'm blown away. Let me clear the air here. I am not pro government as you may have noticed on my many rants on American foriegn policy. I just believe that education, especially in this day and age, needs to be subsidized by the government. Foriegn countries are passing us by with their government subsidized education. I'm pretty sure there are many youths out there that have had a similar situation as me, leaving home at 16 because the facts were, my parents could not afford for me to stay at home. I entered the job market at 14, finished 3 years of high school on my own, joined the military and got my GED, then after the service went to JC on the GI bill. By similar situations I mean they can't afford college or their parents can't either. They need a level playing field, the government can supply that. The student loans can be repaid to the government after college, when the students achieve employment. I think this government investment will pay off in the long run, make this country competitive on the world market. The way the current system works, if the parents can't provide at least the housing and food for the students, they cannot go to college. This leaves out a lot of potential high end workers, the class system in reverse, better known as conservatism. Yes, there are scholorships, but even those are based on class warfare. I would insist that a certain grade average be maintained by these students on the government dole, but some form of training should also be available for those that do not make the grade, otherwise we are turning a large portion of our youth into drug dealers and criminals. As far as my love of government, it doesn't exist. I view government as a tool, if it isn't working, we should repair or replace it. In it's current state, it is a tool of the wealthy, the plutocrats, the corporatists and the lobbiests, certainly not the people. We the people really don't have much to say about what government does. It is time to either repair it or replace it. The tea party wants to replace it, with what I know not, but I certainly think it will not help we the people. I would like to repair it, but from the looks of this election, it will get worse before it gets better.
 
medicalsb420

medicalsb420

Active Member
i think palin would look great with my dick in her mouth, so long as she can't talk i could get into it. what a stupid bitch lol...
 
medicalsb420

medicalsb420

Active Member
seriously the fact that people follow her really kindles an appreciation for hitler's policies,not at all for racial reasons but sometimes i just feel like killing people for not seeing it my way(easier than political debates with peons lol.) seriously if you align mentally with palin, and swallow the utter bullshit she spews... i think you should die.lol
 
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