"Organics" NOT

canna_420

canna_420

Well-Known Member
OK over the years ive searched for an Organic flowering booster.
Yes its pretty hard to find just a PK booster so i personaly setled with a combi of soil based ferts like Bone meanl, Oldtimers original grow+bloom and some guanokalong.

Anyways so i checked up on ATA's organics range as they seem pretty decent npk. So i emailed the company atami

I asked them
Was trying to find thee certificate for Organic cetification in UK but
have not yet found it.

Is the ATA organics rane UK Certified?
Click to expand...
Answered
Hello Cxxxxxx,

Thank you for your interest in Atami and our products!

The ATA organics products are not totally organic, but organically based.
This is because it is nearly impossible to have a totally organic product, the dosages would need to be a lot higher then and it would smell really bad. The product would react in the bottle, causing it to swell or even overflow.

In the UK our products don’t need to be registered and we have chosen not to do so.
The reason for this is that we don’t want to mislead our customers and this way the products will remain affordable as well,
because the registration itself is very expensive as well.

I hope this answers your question sufficiently.
If you have any more questions please let me know.


With kind regards,
Piet

Atami B.V.
www.atami.com
Tel: 0031 (0) 73 522 32 56
Fax: 0031 (0) 73 521 32 59
Click to expand...


so I also emailed Growth tech about their Organic range of Greenfuse

I asked them
1 )--

I have been trying to find the safety documents that go with greenfuse bloom and also as I live in UK i would like to know about the authenticity of the “Organic” claimed..

I am interested in Greenfuse bloom but only wish to buy 100% UK legal “Organic” not EU Biological as EU Bio is not Organic EU allows for derived minerals UK does not.
Mainly i would like to know what credited Organic certificates Greenfuse as. Alike BioBizz as OMRI cert.

2 )--
If above is validated is their an NPK value to both GF Grow and Bloom , if their is what is it?

3 )--
If 1 is not validated does growth tech supply a fully 100% ORGANIC (not bio) booster


I would appreciate it if this is dealt with swiftly

Click to expand...

The reply from Growth tech was very swift to
Hi Cxxxxxx,

Sorry for the late response to your question, I felt it was best to check this one with our Chemist first before giving you an answer.
I have copied you in on the answer I received.
It doesn’t sound like the Greenfuse range would meet his requirements to be honest. Even though the range is composed of 100% natural plant oils and fruit extracts, and all the raw materials come from a closed ecological cycle, we have no certification to authenticate this.
Greenfuse is a cold press plant extract, and contains nothing else. it does not contain minerals but as stated above we do not have certification to authenticate this.
I hope this helps, Happy growing.
Best regards,
​
Ian Ilett
European Sales & Technical Services:
Mobile: +44 (0)7804 882 048
Direct line: Tel +44 (0)1823 424 323
Click to expand...


So i guess what this meens is unless it as organic ingridents like batt-chicken-horse or cow shit then it is probably biological (chemichals extracted from plants to sulphates) and under EU law it is not Organic...

Also i guess i should advise anyone to first email the company for verication on their organic ranges.
 
foreverflyhi

foreverflyhi

Well-Known Member
This "war" on labeling what is organic And not is a endless war that will not change anytime soon.
In the states "OMRI" is a good thing but also very misleading. Example, (as we all kno, USA government and corporations are liars and devils, they are masters at re naming things or simply changing the definition) back to my example, OMRI sounds like a great thing and started off a great thing, but in time the rules were changed, USDA oversee what is organic and what is not. The USDA is run and owned by corporations that create synthetics as well as GMO foods.. therefore we as growers have to be very careful on what we choose, and what labels to really trust. I say dont trust any of them, make your own organics.
not sure where i was going with this... Oh yea capitalism sucks
 
canna_420

canna_420

Well-Known Member
i aint argueing politics or philosiphy but i aint seen capitalism since ........................ i dont think i have..

fascism
 
Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
The thing about organics is that the mycorrhizae make the existing P in the soil a whole lot more available to the plant. No need to add more.
I aint really all that hung up on OMRI certification, or any other certification for that matter. Foreverflyhi is right. OMRI certification may well have started out with the best of intentions, but the whole thing has been corrupted by the heavy players in the agricultural field, and it is no longer a valid certification of true organics, and has become such a burden to jump thru all the hoops to get that certification it isn't worth most manufacturers time or money to get it.
My own personal organics program is more in the line of what I know and feel is organic. Bunny poo, EWC, Kelp, guanos, etc. Do I use non organic products? Yes, some. I keep Epsom Salts on hand, and to my knowledge none of my kelp supplements are certified organic, but I trust them to be. Many products I use are not OMRI certified,like all my Espoma products, but I am satisfied that the essence of organic principles are being adhered to. Especially with Espoma. I use a whole bunch of their products
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Most Espoma products, the Tone products, the label says approved for organic gardening by a USDA accredited certifying agency.
 
Rising Moon

Rising Moon

Well-Known Member
As long as its composted...

might as well be the USDA's stance on all fertilizers. I work in the industry, and have many friends with certified organic farms. It's pretty outrageous what they can and cannot call organic. One farmer I know literally gets manure deliveries from a factory feedlot style dairy farm, where the cows never see the light of day, eat GMO corn and are fed all sorts of antibiotics and chemicals,


but as long as its composted on an certified farm.... Its now certified ORGANIC!
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Organics is just a highly misunderstood, even enigmatic concept to many. A lot of people balk at "organics"; think it is a 'buzzword' or a gimmick or something, and perhaps it has even been used as such but this isn't what it really is. An educated person who knows quite a bit about general physics and chemistry but next to nothing about soil microbiology or the soil food web, might just think about "organics" in such terms.

In it's simplest sense it is a quality assurance, like "no artificial preservatives", or "100% whole wheat". The spirit of organics revolves around sustainable farming practices, and this naturally calls for more natural inputs and methods. The focus for growing is on the health of the soil and the soil food web, which is what should allow the soil to sustain plant growth. There is quite a demand for "organic" produce, whatever the consumer thinks about it. And in the early days the certifications were not really necessary, but they became so as demand increased and unscrupulous individuals realized they could profit more by labeling non-organic products as organic.

Of course, and unfortunately, the demand and appeal of organic to consumers also induces factory-farmers and agri-corpo-giants into wanting to go "organic" and sometimes it is easier for them to slack it, lobby to have the regulations changed or collude with some unscrupulous accrediting agency. Organics is sort of one of those things that just really doesn't have to be so technically legislated, so to speak. Inevitably all the regulations and their technicalities become open to interpretation or exploitable.

If someone is going to go organic they often need to change more than the brand of fertilizer they are using. But, one of the things you should be able to gather from looking at the ingredients of organic\all natural plant foods is that aside from being all natural, many of the ingredients are industry by-products. The Espoma Tone products, for example, are likely more than half by-products (feather meal, poultry manure, cocoa meal, bone meal), along with some alfalfa meal, mined minerals, humates and viable microbial CFUs.
 
Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
Absolutely. Organics is not something that requires "certification". It either is or it isn't organic. Even organic sources of nutrients have some environmental contaminants from inorganic industrial waste. Pesticides, industrial pollutants in the environment, etc.
The OMRI thing was supposed to ensure that everything that was claimed on the label was what it was supposed to be, and that organically grown produce or livestock actually is organic.
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Is growing under artificial lamps and artificial co2 injection (HUGE Carbon footprint) OMRI CERTIFIED? Organics belongs outdoors in my opinion.
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
canna_420 said:
OK over the years ive searched for an Organic flowering booster.
Yes its pretty hard to find just a PK booster so i personaly setled with a combi of soil based ferts like Bone meanl, Oldtimers original grow+bloom and some guanokalong.

Anyways so i checked up on ATA's organics range as they seem pretty decent npk. So i emailed the company atami

I asked them


Answered




so I also emailed Growth tech about their Organic range of Greenfuse

I asked them



The reply from Growth tech was very swift to




So i guess what this meens is unless it as organic ingridents like batt-chicken-horse or cow shit then it is probably biological (chemichals extracted from plants to sulphates) and under EU law it is not Organic...

Also i guess i should advise anyone to first email the company for verication on their organic ranges.
Click to expand...
Maybe Nature's Care Veg, Fruit, and Flower food? 3-4-2 NPK plus 2 for Ca. Natural bacteria for eating amendments and shitting ferts. All naturally derived and OMRI certified.
 
W

Wetdog

Well-Known Member
BTW, OMRI doesn't *certify* anything, it is a "Listing" agency and nothing more. The label looks cool and usually cost more (the listing ain't free), but really doesn't mean squat.

Learning how to read labels, especially ingredient lists and guaranteed analysis (required by the gov't), will serve you WAY better than any OMRI stamp.

Wet
 
Olive Drab Green

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Wetdog said:
BTW, OMRI doesn't *certify* anything, it is a "Listing" agency and nothing more. The label looks cool and usually cost more (the listing ain't free), but really doesn't mean squat.

Learning how to read labels, especially ingredient lists and guaranteed analysis (required by the gov't), will serve you WAY better than any OMRI stamp.

Wet
Click to expand...
Appreciate the input, but you knew what I meant, you pretentious sumbitch. :0
 
DonBrennon

DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
Organics is just a highly misunderstood, even enigmatic concept to many. A lot of people balk at "organics"; think it is a 'buzzword' or a gimmick or something, and perhaps it has even been used as such but this isn't what it really is. An educated person who knows quite a bit about general physics and chemistry but next to nothing about soil microbiology or the soil food web, might just think about "organics" in such terms.

In it's simplest sense it is a quality assurance, like "no artificial preservatives", or "100% whole wheat". The spirit of organics revolves around sustainable farming practices, and this naturally calls for more natural inputs and methods. The focus for growing is on the health of the soil and the soil food web, which is what should allow the soil to sustain plant growth. There is quite a demand for "organic" produce, whatever the consumer thinks about it. And in the early days the certifications were not really necessary, but they became so as demand increased and unscrupulous individuals realized they could profit more by labeling non-organic products as /organic.

Of course, and unfortunately, the demand and appeal of organic to consumers also induces factory-farmers and agri-corpo-giants into wanting to go "organic" and sometimes it is easier for them to slack it, lobby to have the regulations changed or collude with some unscrupulous accrediting agency. Organics is sort of one of those things that just really doesn't have to be so technically legislated, so to speak. Inevitably all the regulations and their technicalities become open to interpretation or exploitable.

If someone is going to go organic they often need to change more than the brand of fertilizer they are using. But, one of the things you should be able to gather from looking at the ingredients of organic\all natural plant foods is that aside from being all natural, many of the ingredients are industry by-products. The Espoma Tone products, for example, are likely more than half by-products (feather meal, poultry manure, cocoa meal, bone meal), along with some alfalfa meal, mined minerals, humates and viable microbial CFUs.
Click to expand...
Well moderated
 
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