Cann
Well-Known Member
Hey there weed nerds! Hoping to start a discussion here about the importance of pH in living organic soils. There seems to be a lot of misinformation spread by organic growers about the true importance of pH in a soil with a strong micro-herd. Recently I came across this post by WeeDroid on the grasscity forums. I hope its okay that I repost it here...
ph is not a worry with organic, living soils. What happens is that the plant roots give off exudates that attract appropriate microorganisms to the rhizosphere (root zone). All of these microorganisms adjust the ph for the plant.
Due to the CEC nature (causing nutrients to stick) of good soil and the gelatin like goo that the microorganisms create around the root ball, nutrients don't flush out.
Plants don't dump waste. They reuse nearly everything. The key is nutrient cycling which the soil microorganisms help with.
There are a few of us here that are exploring no till/reuse of soil grows. Even fewer of us have actually done it and found it to be a very viable way to grow. Check the organic growers forum here and search for no till grows.
There have been many many of us that have been deceived for all our lives by the petro chemical industries approach to farming and gardening. Luckily with the combination of established organic studies (Rodale Institute, Demeter, Oregon Tilth) and new research in soil life, we are beginning to see the beauty of nature in the soil and how to work in harmony with some very basic paradigms.
This results in healthier plants and less cost to the gardner.
This really made me stop and think...as I cultivate a healthy micro-herd in all of my containers yet I was worrying about pH a lot. I have no issues with my RO water (7.0 pH, 0 ppm) my problem arises with my AACT, which often has a pH below 5 even with the ppm only around 600. To compensate for this I have been adding pH up to my tea right before feeding to bring the pH to around 6.5. The problem is, I have to add a ton of pH up to bring it to 6.5 (2 or 3 TBS per 4 gallons) and doing so adds over 100 ppm to the solution, meaning roughly 1/7 of the ppm in my tea comes from pH up...which cannot be good for the soil (salts?). pH up is also the only non-organic ingredient in my whole garden - and that is really bugging me. So my question is: do you think it is more damaging to my soil to feed with a pH 6.5 tea with 100ppm pH up, or a pH 5.0 tea that is all organic and full of microorganisms. Could the pH up potentially be killing off my beneficial bacteria? Is the salt from the pH up going to get stuck in my soil causing lockout if I don't flush??? Has anyone had experience with pH issues in living organic soil, or is WeeDroid right that it is basically a non-issue if your soil is alive enough? I would love it if someone with experience could chime in, because I have a feeling I am drowning my ladies with kindness by worrying about pH so much and adding chemicals into my tea. Last grow I didn't have a pH meter and I mixed the same teas and applied them every few weeks the entire grow and had no issues at all...not sure if this was a fluke or if WeeDroid is really on to something here..
I use Roots Organic nutrient line if y'all are wondering - Buddha Grow, Buddha Bloom, HP2, HPK, Ancient Amber, Extreme Serene, and Trinity. I also use Roots Elemental as a Cal/Mg supplement for my RO water, and I use Blue Mountain Organics' Super Plant Tonic for my microorganisms, along with Roots Oregonism XL. Other ingredients that often make their way into the tea are Alaska Forest Humus, Earth Worm Castings, Neem Oil, and of course Blackstrap Molasses. Tea gets bubbled for 24-72 hours and then diluted to the proper ppm and fed. I have noticed a slight change in pH as the tea bubbles, usually it starts out around 4.5 and makes it way into the low 5's, although I am unsure if this is significant or not.
Chime in if you have anything to say, even if it is just your tea recipe or your nutrient feed schedule and pH. Wondering what other organic growers who run living soil are doing about this, it's an issue that never really seems to get much attention...
Peace
ph is not a worry with organic, living soils. What happens is that the plant roots give off exudates that attract appropriate microorganisms to the rhizosphere (root zone). All of these microorganisms adjust the ph for the plant.
Due to the CEC nature (causing nutrients to stick) of good soil and the gelatin like goo that the microorganisms create around the root ball, nutrients don't flush out.
Plants don't dump waste. They reuse nearly everything. The key is nutrient cycling which the soil microorganisms help with.
There are a few of us here that are exploring no till/reuse of soil grows. Even fewer of us have actually done it and found it to be a very viable way to grow. Check the organic growers forum here and search for no till grows.
There have been many many of us that have been deceived for all our lives by the petro chemical industries approach to farming and gardening. Luckily with the combination of established organic studies (Rodale Institute, Demeter, Oregon Tilth) and new research in soil life, we are beginning to see the beauty of nature in the soil and how to work in harmony with some very basic paradigms.
This results in healthier plants and less cost to the gardner.
This really made me stop and think...as I cultivate a healthy micro-herd in all of my containers yet I was worrying about pH a lot. I have no issues with my RO water (7.0 pH, 0 ppm) my problem arises with my AACT, which often has a pH below 5 even with the ppm only around 600. To compensate for this I have been adding pH up to my tea right before feeding to bring the pH to around 6.5. The problem is, I have to add a ton of pH up to bring it to 6.5 (2 or 3 TBS per 4 gallons) and doing so adds over 100 ppm to the solution, meaning roughly 1/7 of the ppm in my tea comes from pH up...which cannot be good for the soil (salts?). pH up is also the only non-organic ingredient in my whole garden - and that is really bugging me. So my question is: do you think it is more damaging to my soil to feed with a pH 6.5 tea with 100ppm pH up, or a pH 5.0 tea that is all organic and full of microorganisms. Could the pH up potentially be killing off my beneficial bacteria? Is the salt from the pH up going to get stuck in my soil causing lockout if I don't flush??? Has anyone had experience with pH issues in living organic soil, or is WeeDroid right that it is basically a non-issue if your soil is alive enough? I would love it if someone with experience could chime in, because I have a feeling I am drowning my ladies with kindness by worrying about pH so much and adding chemicals into my tea. Last grow I didn't have a pH meter and I mixed the same teas and applied them every few weeks the entire grow and had no issues at all...not sure if this was a fluke or if WeeDroid is really on to something here..
I use Roots Organic nutrient line if y'all are wondering - Buddha Grow, Buddha Bloom, HP2, HPK, Ancient Amber, Extreme Serene, and Trinity. I also use Roots Elemental as a Cal/Mg supplement for my RO water, and I use Blue Mountain Organics' Super Plant Tonic for my microorganisms, along with Roots Oregonism XL. Other ingredients that often make their way into the tea are Alaska Forest Humus, Earth Worm Castings, Neem Oil, and of course Blackstrap Molasses. Tea gets bubbled for 24-72 hours and then diluted to the proper ppm and fed. I have noticed a slight change in pH as the tea bubbles, usually it starts out around 4.5 and makes it way into the low 5's, although I am unsure if this is significant or not.
Chime in if you have anything to say, even if it is just your tea recipe or your nutrient feed schedule and pH. Wondering what other organic growers who run living soil are doing about this, it's an issue that never really seems to get much attention...
Peace
Anyway, on to the knowledge. This one comes from LumperDawgz - who IMO is one of the most knowledgable heads in organic gardening I have ever had the pleasure to find online - in organics he is on a level of his own above the legends of RIU (subcool, etc.) Unfortunately he hasn't made a post since 2010, so you have to dig through pages and pages old grasscity threads to find his gems of knowledge. If you are passionate about organics and furthering your knowledge of botany in general, I would suggest making an account on grasscity strictly in order to view Lumpers account, and then reading every single one of his 1,559 posts 
. You'll thank me later. 
. 
. Alternatively, it makes sense that if you are feeding complex nutrients (not immediately available like hydro nutes) to your micro-herd, as long as they can survive in the pH range of those nutrients (4-7) they should be able to do their job converting complex nutrients into simple nutrients that are immediately usable by the plant. Therefore the plant will receive a full spectrum of nutrients compliment of the micro-herd, regardless of the soil/nutrient solution pH. 