Organic Growing Made Easy & Fox Farms Ocean Forest!

DrCannaPath

DrCannaPath

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
i just noticed this question. I am a little worried that your mix may be too hot. I think if you just did the happy frog @ 1 cups/cuft and the PK boost @ 1 cups/cuft and the alfalfa @ 1/4-1/2 cup/cuft you would be fine. the rock dust is fine (and could even be doubled) I think you would benefit from a kelp meal as the stuff contains all kinds of beneficial things (vitamins, enzymes, minerals, amino acids, potassium, ect) which all have positive effects on your soil and plants.

Guanos are highly soluble and don't slow release very well, so you can actually overfeed with them because they are so soluble. if you have them and you wanted to use them up, you could brew teas with them. (high N for veg and High P for flower)

also i think some sort of ph buffer would help you a lot too. oyster shell flour @ 1/4-1/2 c per cu. ft. since i know the FFOF has some lime in it, but it's likely not quite enough so a little supplement may benefit you.

wish i woulda saw your post sooner! Good luck with the grow man. Hope it turns out well for you. I think you'll do fine with a water only grow :bigjoint:
Click to expand...
Thank you very much brother for taking the time to read my post and reply! .... i was worried that my mix would be too hot at first then just went ahead and mixed it up anyway. Now that you mentioned it, i am hoping that the 4 to possibly 6 weeks of letting the soil "cook" will help out in regards to how hot it is. I am also going to wait until almost a week or few days before flipping bwfore i transplant the girls to their final and hotter mix. Hopefully that'll help them not burn. Ill also try to get some kelp from a nearby beach to dry it then use it for top dressing or in teas i know for a fact i wont be able to get anything to help raise the pH but ill try to collect some crushed seashells from the beach and see if I can pulverize it (or can i use it in as course as it is?) thanks bro again for your help. This organic gardening is like all new ocean for this fish and this fish is loving swimming in it

Check out my new QuadStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
DrCannaPath said:
Thank you very much brother for taking the time to read my post and reply! .... i was worried that my mix would be too hot at first then just went ahead and mixed it up anyway. Now that you mentioned it, i am hoping that the 4 to possibly 6 weeks of letting the soil "cook" will help out in regards to how hot it is. I am also going to wait until almost a week or few days before flipping bwfore i transplant the girls to their final and hotter mix. Hopefully that'll help them not burn. Ill also try to get some kelp from a nearby beach to dry it then use it for top dressing or in teas i know for a fact i wont be able to get anything to help raise the pH but ill try to collect some crushed seashells from the beach and see if I can pulverize it (or can i use it in as course as it is?) thanks bro again for your help. This organic gardening is like all new ocean for this fish and this fish is loving swimming in it

Check out my new QuadStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/
Click to expand...
you're welcome! glad you saw the response! it's always good to ask questions...

the thing about nutrients is they dont expire unless they are used up. so your microbes will consume some but the vast majority will still be in the mix, so letting it sit won't do a lot to "dilute" the mixture. what goes in stays in until it's taken out... you know... just like matter is neither created or destroyed. microbes will consume the nutrients and grow more microbes, but all that nutrition is still in the soil in the bodily forms of the microbes, and the stuff the exude. when the microbes die those nutrients that built their bodily forms are returned back to the soil and new microbes/benes consume those and so on and so on and so on. So basically what i'm saying is your plants pull the majority of nutrients from your soil to build plant matter! :)

also i highly suggest waiting 2-3 weeks before flipping when you transplant (depending on container size 3wk is best IMO). you want to give the plants time to spread their roots out in the new pot, so that when you do flip, A) the can drink water faster which means they won't sit in a damp/wet soil between waterings. you gotta remember they can only drink and feed where the roots are so you want the roots to "move into the pot". B) having more roots will allow them to uptake what they need better/faster so when you do flip, they'll be able to take everything they need and really get an explosive start to flowering.

IMO, if you flip a week after transplant, it's just not enough time to let the plant do what it needs to do to "move into the pot".

pulverizing the shells would be best. you create more surface area. which means that more microbes can work on the shell flour. you can topdress the shells and over time they will work their way into the soil via water erosion/leaching. you have some lime in the FFOF so that will work until the shell flour starts to do its thing!

just remember.... more is not always better!!!!
 
DrCannaPath

DrCannaPath

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
you're welcome! glad you saw the response! it's always good to ask questions...

the thing about nutrients is they dont expire unless they are used up. so your microbes will consume some but the vast majority will still be in the mix, so letting it sit won't do a lot to "dilute" the mixture. what goes in stays in until it's taken out... you know... just like matter is neither created or destroyed. microbes will consume the nutrients and grow more microbes, but all that nutrition is still in the soil in the bodily forms of the microbes, and the stuff the exude. when the microbes die those nutrients that built their bodily forms are returned back to the soil and new microbes/benes consume those and so on and so on and so on. So basically what i'm saying is your plants pull the majority of nutrients from your soil to build plant matter! :)

also i highly suggest waiting 2-3 weeks before flipping when you transplant (depending on container size 3wk is best IMO). you want to give the plants time to spread their roots out in the new pot, so that when you do flip, A) the can drink water faster which means they won't sit in a damp/wet soil between waterings. you gotta remember they can only drink and feed where the roots are so you want the roots to "move into the pot". B) having more roots will allow them to uptake what they need better/faster so when you do flip, they'll be able to take everything they need and really get an explosive start to flowering.

IMO, if you flip a week after transplant, it's just not enough time to let the plant do what it needs to do to "move into the pot".

pulverizing the shells would be best. you create more surface area. which means that more microbes can work on the shell flour. you can topdress the shells and over time they will work their way into the soil via water erosion/leaching. you have some lime in the FFOF so that will work until the shell flour starts to do its thing!

just remember.... more is not always better!!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks brother again for your reply and the additional tips. Alright ill try to let them go for a couple weeks before I flip. But then that means ill have to transplant them into their final pot maybe in a week when i just transplantted them from their 3" germination pots to their i think 8" veg pots 3 days ago. 10 days in this 8"pot is ok beforr i transplant again? The final pots I have are 35L (almost 10 gal). Thanks again brother

Check out my new QuadStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
DrCannaPath said:
Thanks brother again for your reply and the additional tips. Alright ill try to let them go for a couple weeks before I flip. But then that means ill have to transplant them into their final pot maybe in a week when i just transplantted them from their 3" germination pots to their i think 8" veg pots 3 days ago. 10 days in this 8"pot is ok beforr i transplant again? The final pots I have are 35L (almost 10 gal). Thanks again brother

Check out my new QuadStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/
Click to expand...
generally how i do it is from the cloner to a quart sized pot for a couple weeks so the roots fill it out, then to a 1 gal pot for 2-3 weeks so the roots fill it out, and then to a 7-10 gal for 2-3 weeks (again let roots grow) and then into flower. I know @greasemonkeymann 's process is very similar to mine.

you want to build a good size root-ball before you get them into the bigger container, so i would say if you try and transplant from the 8" to the 10 gal it's just going to fall apart when you remove from the 8" so quickly. just remember.... some things in life are worth waiting for, even though i'm sure you're anxious as all fuck to get some into flower lol. i know i would be!
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
generally how i do it is from the cloner to a quart sized pot for a couple weeks so the roots fill it out, then to a 1 gal pot for 2-3 weeks so the roots fill it out, and then to a 7-10 gal for 2-3 weeks (again let roots grow) and then into flower. I know @greasemonkeymann 's process is very similar to mine.

you want to build a good size root-ball before you get them into the bigger container, so i would say if you try and transplant from the 8" to the 10 gal it's just going to fall apart when you remove from the 8" so quickly. just remember.... some things in life are worth waiting for, even though i'm sure you're anxious as all fuck to get some into flower lol. i know i would be!
Click to expand...
damn good advice, another thing worth mentioning is not only is this method the best for minimizing root-shock ( a formed rootball is nearly undisturbed at trans, done correctly)
but the method is also the best for maximizing the soil web, frequent transplants tend to create a more dense rootball, reason being is cannabis is a drought tolerant plant, and it shoots the roots out as far as it can when transplanted, when it does that it tends to NOT fill inside the smaller areas inside the container, rather more on the outside (looking for water, so to speak)
 
DrCannaPath

DrCannaPath

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
generally how i do it is from the cloner to a quart sized pot for a couple weeks so the roots fill it out, then to a 1 gal pot for 2-3 weeks so the roots fill it out, and then to a 7-10 gal for 2-3 weeks (again let roots grow) and then into flower. I know @greasemonkeymann 's process is very similar to mine.

you want to build a good size root-ball before you get them into the bigger container, so i would say if you try and transplant from the 8" to the 10 gal it's just going to fall apart when you remove from the 8" so quickly. just remember.... some things in life are worth waiting for, even though i'm sure you're anxious as all fuck to get some into flower lol. i know i would be!
Click to expand...
greasemonkeymann said:
damn good advice, another thing worth mentioning is not only is this method the best for minimizing root-shock ( a formed rootball is nearly undisturbed at trans, done correctly)
but the method is also the best for maximizing the soil web, frequent transplants tend to create a more dense rootball, reason being is cannabis is a drought tolerant plant, and it shoots the roots out as far as it can when transplanted, when it does that it tends to NOT fill inside the smaller areas inside the container, rather more on the outside (looking for water, so to speak)
Click to expand...
Thank you gentlemen for taking the time to help out a fellow grower ... i appreciate all your valuable advice. My axiety with trying to (or having to) send them into flowering by feb 15 is the time constraints I have. I have to go on 2 trips out of the country, once during and once after i harvest (and the trips are 3 weeks long each hah)
Ill have to check the calendar and see if I can stretch the veg a little longer and flower after I come back from the first trip and make sure that (with estimated flowering time +2weeks) ill finish flowering AND harvest before I have to leave the country again for another 3 weeks
Thank you gentlemen


Check out my new QuadStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/
 
Brandon Nebel

Brandon Nebel

Well-Known Member
whitey78 said:
I usually add about a tbs of lime per gallon of soil mix, I've never used hi-cal, I use dolomite or something similar to dolomite.... Also, I dont use just ocean forest, I mix it with happy frog in a bag to bag ratio.....I am having a brain fart so I cant figure out the measurements in quarts but I usually add about 6 cups of EWC's to a bag of soil, more is usually not better but with EWC's its not gonna hurt unless you go way overboard..... I think the mix of ocean forest which is coir based and the happy frog which is peat based gives an overall better base than either of them alone..... good job on the perlite as well, definitely need that, again not able to picture the amounts but realize that the more you add the more often you are going to water, you need some but not too much...... rice hulls are a good alternative. Dont go too crazy with the glacial rock dust, I use azomite instead of that and it can easily cause salt build up if you use too much..... I add a 1/2 cup of azomite to a batch of soil that contains 8 bags of soil (supersoil)..... so be careful with that stuff....
Click to expand...
Why is everyone using azomite. Doesnt the heavy metal content bother anybody else but me. I dont want my medicine to contain mercury and aluminum. Arent there other products where we can get the trace elements without the heavy metals.
 
DonTesla

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Brandon Nebel said:
What do you use instead.
Click to expand...
I guess it depends what you're using it for, mate..

for paramagnetic additives, there's blue metal dust / glacial rock dust / basalt, and more

for minerals, there's Burgundy lava rock / greensand / kelp etc

earth is so plentiful we just gotta look around a bit and look into each thing we come across.

azomite was named azomite cause it has everything from a to z in it, literally

Brandon Nebel said:
Why is everyone using azomite. Doesnt the heavy metal content bother anybody else but me. I dont want my medicine to contain mercury and aluminum. Arent there other products where we can get the trace elements without the heavy metals.
Click to expand...
 
DonTesla

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
@Lighter404 ok lets simplify Jah homie!

If you can find some compost, lets use that eh! then just add about 40-45% aeration, depending how springy and pithy and fine it is, best stuff you can find, a combo is best but one will do to start.
If you cant find compost you can get coir and Vigoro Black Earth (high humus blend) from Home Depot at $3 per bag. If no compost avail sub 1 part Vigoro Black Earth with 1 part Coir well rinsed to make 'compost' that day.

then you can start your plants.

from there you can work in the magnetic rock / mineral dust component into the topsoil with a fork as well as your fulvic and humic acid rich-homemade castings helped out with some kelp meal / neem meal if you can find.

that right there is really all you need.

1% neem
2% kelp
4% magnetic rock dust
10-15-20% castings once made (mix with aeration, simple top dress, can mix in next round)

The forces of life:
Fertile-rich, high-humus Compost
Living Organisms
Magnetic component

(remember, even O2 is paramagnetic because it has two unpaired electrons)
 
Lighter404

Lighter404

Active Member
Awesome- thank you very much. I plan to get a better understanding about it as I go but it's a lot to take in all at once. So I've got easy access to most of that stuff though.[/QUOTE]
 
Brandon Nebel

Brandon Nebel

Well-Known Member
DrCannaPath said:
Hello ladies and gents and thank you in advance for taking the time to read my post and add your 2 cents! And ideas, thoughts or help are much appreciated :-)

Soil mix to a total of 2.5cf to be split in 2x 9gal pots for a final transplant right before the flip to 12/12 plus leftover:

1/3 FFOF (peat based). Pic of ingredients
1/3 FF CocoLoco (coco based and nicely amended). Pic of ingredients
1/3 aeration: (consisting of 1/3 of each: construction sand, happy frog soil conditioner and perlites). This soil mix is coarse-grainy but very airy although with a nice heavy body and structure. (Thoughts on this?)

Mixing all 3 parts together gives me the advantages of both peat and coco from the first and second parts of the mix. Theyre both aerated with perlites out of the bag. Therefore i wanted my additional 1/3 aeration to have sand as part of it. I didnt want to lose too much organic composition in the mix and thus i added 1/3 of the aeration portion of Happy Frog soil conditioner (see pic for ingredients)

Amendments (still haven't been added so please let me know if I should decrease or increase or drop any):
2 cups rock dust (actually dust acquired from Marble/Granite joint)
2 cups happy frog tomatoes n veggies (pic)
2 cups happy frog bulb food for higher p/k for flowering (pic)
2 cups ground up rabbit food (for alfalfa+ meal?)
1 cup bat guano high N
1 cup bat guano high P
(Also have happy frog steamed bone meal if needed to be added .... and I can get some algae from a nearby beach and dry it up for kelp meal??)

This mix will be allowed to cook for at least 4 weeks (watered with EWC/Great White tea for a jump start) while we wait for the girls to germinate and veg :-)

I will put the girls in the final 9gal pots right before I flip to 12/12 and give them a few days to recover any shock. I am hoping for a water only

Any thoughts on the soil mix or amendments or what i am doin are more than welcome and appreciated ... as this is my first organic run and first time playing around with dirt like this and with some background knowledge haha :-) happy growin yall
P.S: I got thw above right from my grow diary ..... i figured posting the m8x and questions here will yield more views from the experienced organic growers. Thanks again :-)

Check out my new QuadStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/916619/
and my previous TriStrain grow ;-) :
https://www.rollitup.org/index.php?threads/883569/
Click to expand...
Although youve already gotten solid advice from seasoned growers i thought i would still chime in and let you know what i did this yeat using FFOF amd FFHF mixed together. In years past i only used ocean forest and happy frog mixed together. Not sure why i started mixing them but i did and its always given great results. And i get both products locally for a steal. $9 per bag which makes it the same price as all the lower quality soils at home depot. Anyways this year i wanted to get more into organics. So i ammemded my soil using the following recipe i kind of created on my own after reading many forums. This is a recipe based on a 30 gallon smart pot. 30 gallon pots require 4.01 cu ft of soil, or 473 cups if you want to break it down more. So per 30 gallon pot i used the following

80% mix of ocean forest and happy frog
20% mix of ammendments which are:
48 cups vermi organics EWC
22 cups california gold humus
3 cups kelp meal
3 cups alfalfa meal
3 cups glacial rock dust
3 cups insect frass
2 cups greensand
3 cups dolomite lime
1 cup langbeinite
5-6 cups perlite.

I contemplated using guanos or manures but my gut told me to steer clear and instead feed guano or manure teas instead to get the nitogen. I realized most of the ammendments were slow releasing and from my studies the guanos are not slow releasing. And based on Shlubly comments im right and glad i didnt use guanos in the soil. I will top dress or tea feed if necessary. I was a little apprehensive at first to transplant them into this mix as ive never done it before and usually just stick with what works cause ruining a crop while experimenting would not be fun. Anyways like i said, youve gotten great feedback already i just wantedto share my recipe as my plants are thriving so far in it. I transplanted them into the 30# smart pot a week ago, using mykos of course amd watered them in with liquid kelp and had zero transplant shock and they started doubling in size right away in just 8 days they havr grown like crazy. Im in northern california and we've had an insane heat wave the last week too. Anyways happy growing
 
B

BRANDON77

Well-Known Member
Completely untested....please help me adjust my ratios and maybe what to add???

POTTING SOIL RECIPE

8 CU FEET OF FOX FARMS COCO LOCO (4 CU FT BAGS)

1 15 POUND BAG OF EARTH WORM CASTINGS

2 CUP MICROCHAZAE

2 CUP KELP MEAL

2 CUP ALFALFA MEAL

2 CUP AZOMITE

2 CUP SEABIRD GUANO

2 CUP LANGENBRITE

2 CUP CRAB MEAL

2 CUP DOLOMITE LIME

2 CUP EPSOM SALTS

2 CUP DIAMACEOUS EARTH

2 CUP OYSTER SHELL FLOUR

2 CUP FEATHER MEAL



also considering gypsum, i figured the oyster shell and dolomite lime should provide enough calcium though. I have everything listed above except the oyster flour and feather meal.
 
Last edited:
Maersk

Maersk

Active Member
@BRANDON77
Dont add mycorrhizae to the soil, they need roots...

Add it to the roots when you transplant. your ratios do need adjusting but im no pro either...
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Anybody get Russet Mites when using the FFOF? Might not be a bad idea to microwave it or something, though I guess that would kill good organisms too. Probably beats having Russet Mites though. Here's a page showing how plants look when infested. I don't know if the plant in the video is infested or not, doesn't look as bad as the images on the linked page but could be.

 
Last edited:
Tim Fox

Tim Fox

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
Anybody get Russet Mites when using the FFOF? Might not be a bad idea to microwave it or something, though I guess that would kill good organisms too. Probably beats having Russet Mites though. Here's a page showing how plants look when infested. I don't know if the plant in the video is infested or not, doesn't look as bad as the images on the linked page but could be.

Click to expand...
thats a first,, never heard of mites coming in the soil?,, i did hear that oregon let looose russet mites to combat some other mite the state did not want,, but i have not bothered to research if that is true or not,, but most of the local growers feel they did it to hurt them,, but i kinda doubt it
 
BobCajun

BobCajun

Well-Known Member
Tim Fox said:
thats a first,, never heard of mites coming in the soil?,, i did hear that oregon let looose russet mites to combat some other mite the state did not want,, but i have not bothered to research if that is true or not,, but most of the local growers feel they did it to hurt them,, but i kinda doubt it
Click to expand...
The guy could just have misidentified it as mites, but still I wouldn't trust bought soil as is. If nothing else, it's often full of fungus gnat larvae. Probably a good rule is to sterilize all bought soil. Add new beneficial bacteria after that I guess. But those russet mites could really put a crimp in a weed growing region once established. Apparently they're also known as tomato mites, so if you also happen to grow tomatoes you should probably be extra watchful. Haven't actually investigated the subject beyond looking at the pics on that forum page I linked. Looks like bloody hell for growers though, invisible microscopic bugs that can lay waste to a plant in a few days.
 
Tim Fox

Tim Fox

Well-Known Member
BobCajun said:
The guy could just have misidentified it as mites, but still I wouldn't trust bought soil as is. If nothing else, it's often full of fungus gnat larvae. Probably a good rule is to sterilize all bought soil. Add new beneficial bacteria after that I guess. But those russet mites could really put a crimp in a weed growing region once established. Apparently they're also known as tomato mites, so if you also happen to grow tomatoes you should probably be extra watchful. Haven't actually investigated the subject beyond looking at the pics on that forum page I linked. Looks like bloody hell for growers though, invisible microscopic bugs that can lay waste to a plant in a few days.
Click to expand...
this reminds me of one of the reasons i like to grow in whats called SIP's,, like the earthbox for instance, or the earthtrainer,, in sip growing we cover the top of the soil with plastic ,, like a shower cap idea,, some like the earthbox come with a fitted plastic cover,, others just use garbage bags,, ,, but in so doing we create a barrier between the soil and the plant,
i have not seen a bug since i started doing this,, knats and other soil bound bugs if they exiist stay trapped in the dirt,,
its worked well so far
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top