Opinions on how to light a 10x10 flower room Quantum, COB or Both?

visajoe1 said:

interesting. im only asking because that is a very high ppfd. max level actually, with max co2 levels. You could probably tone the lights down to about 900-1000ppf and see the same results. This would still give you over 40 DLI, which seems to be the max a plant can handle without elevated co2 levels. 725ppfd is about 30 DLI

I dont know how much co2 that reaction puts off, but I doubt its enough to maintain 1000+ppm to realize a benefit with 1500ppfd.

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the generation of co2 in this manner I suspect will be faster than fermentation. Stoicheometry (chemistry of reactions) will tell you how much CO2 you are generating based on weight and concentration of calcium in the eggshells. Lacking this detail you could put it in a fermenter with an airlock make an estimate of the size of bubbles (like its a pea so its 5cc) then count the bubbles produced in a given time, this gas will be very close to 100% CO2 or in other words one million parts per million. Account for volume of room, room air changes.....

Yes, have a co2 meter on order for real world measurements

Trying to figure out the rough order magnitude based on the weight of the eggshells using a 40% calcium content ends up making more co2 than not doing it so why not. As I said, it makes the room smell fresher.

I think that my air flow has a much greater effect of getting more air and thus more co2 to the plant leaves.

But I am not seeing anything significantly different in size of plants over 1k ppfd. That is anecdotal though and I won't have data until after the finish of the next cycle.

CobKits said:

lol i surely didnt pioneer the pin heatsink, though people do like them for obvious reasons

ok we may not be quite to the 0.50/Watt yet

the 3618 light engines i was making for a little while were under $100

HLG-320 drivers also under $100

thats like 350W for $190... pretty close

lets look at another scenario -
3 luminus CXM 22 - $51
3 arctic active coolers - $36
solder em- no holders required
HLG185h-48A driver -$40
_____________________
$127/225W = $0.56/W

HLG480 will be able to drive a single 3618 well over 400W and that should cross the $0.50/W line

so ask me in a week or two

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Ok and you are forgetting about materials to put it all together. I guess you could do like the old days and hang it from wire and a screw but who wants to do that? By the time you buy wire/framing/screws, it gets pricier. Oh, and you did not figure in shipping (unless you are selling HLG-185 @ $40 shipped, please let me know).

Then to boot, you are driving those cobs so hard they are not efficient at all. So while you are almost to your magical 50 cents/w, you are still far from both due to extra material/shipping costs and very poor efficiency levels (for cobs) just to achieve that price point. Dont you think if everyone could get in for 50 cents/w into COB lighting they would do it rather than go with a DE HPS or CMH? Its not feasible yet no matter how much you want it to be.

Whats sad is some noob is going to read your post and instantly think he will be able to pull this one off without reading further. By all means though, please show me a complete DIY (not kit, I know all the suppliers add cost for the "kits", and include EVERYTHING needed with shipping and/or tax if local) lighting solution with greater than 50% efficiency levels (hell, I dont feel anyone should be investing in COB unless they are running 55%+ with all the chips and offerings plus good prices from competition).

**Also, in one post you quote the versatility of cobs and the placement (which I totally agree with) over HPS then you talk about driving cobs nearly to their max. Not only do you lose efficiency, but you lose that versatility of light distribution which is one of the huge performance factors for these custom lights people are building. I do not understand why you keep preaching these COBS being driven so hard. So what, someone can run MAYBE 45% efficiency and have less coverage just to save a few dollars? Might as well go with 2x 315w LEC then in a 4x4.

I think he is just supplying what people are asking for. That makes sense.

If he said get as many cobs as possible and under drive them then people would accuse him of trying to oversell. Catch 22.

doz said:

Ok and you are forgetting about materials to put it all together. I guess you could do like the old days and hang it from wire and a screw but who wants to do that?

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people on a budget

doz said:

Its not feasible yet no matter how much you want it to be.

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sure it is. for someone who is happy with 120 lm/W at around
$0.60/W its plenty viable. still plenty of people using T5s and this is over 30% more efficient than those and have a much longer lifespan

doz said:

Whats sad is some noob is going to read your post and instantly think he will be able to pull this one off without reading further. By all means though, please show me a complete DIY (not kit, I know all the suppliers add cost for the "kits", and include EVERYTHING needed with shipping and/or tax if local) lighting solution with greater than 50% efficiency levels

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i never once said that a budget setup would get over 50% efficiency, i was demonstrating the breadth of range of cobs.

doz said:

(hell, I dont feel anyone should be investing in COB unless they are running 55%+ with all the chips and offerings plus good prices from competition).

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thats your opinion but is not universal by any means. prob less than 1/4 of the people out there running cobs are over 55% at the system level

doz said:

**Also, in one post you quote the versatility of cobs and the placement (which I totally agree with) over HPS then you talk about driving cobs nearly to their max. Not only do you lose efficiency, but you lose that versatility of light distribution which is one of the huge performance factors for these custom lights people are building.

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so an array of 100W cobs doesnt offer an advantage in uniformity over a point source 1000W HID? seems like how hard you drive the emitter is completely unrelated to the array advantage, you can still get within 12" of a 100W cob without issue

doz said:

I do not understand why you keep preaching these COBS being driven so hard. So what, someone can run MAYBE 45% efficiency and have less coverage just to save a few dollars? Might as well go with 2x 315w LEC then in a 4x4.

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i do not understand why you think im preaching anything. i was demonstrating one application of many. its fundamental that efficiency and economy are inversely related. for many people HID is in fact a better option.

id personally put up a 45% cob rig against a CMH any day of the week, yields are comparable, capital costs are comparable. CMH less flexible and higher operating cost over its lifetime

doz said:

Might as well go with 2x 315w LEC then in a 4x4.

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again for coverage 4 or 9 of anything is going to beat 2 of anything in a 4x4

+1 cobs

Since this is an opinion thread i'll go there if there is a noob that wants to diy domething they must first posess the skills and mitivations of a diy'er. If they do not then there are plenty of boxes that will land on their doorstep for a nominal fee for them to crack open plug in and go. It is no way inherent on any jackass with an riu account including advertisers like @CobKits to vet the skills of every individual that comes along.

SSGrower said:

Since this is an opinion thread i'll go there if there is a noob that wants to diy domething they must first posess the skills and mitivations of a diy'er. If they do not then there are plenty of boxes that will land on their doorstep for a nominal fee for them to crack open plug in and go. It is no way inherent on any jackass with an riu account including advertisers like @CobKits to vet the skills of every individual that comes along.

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Plus it is all opinion based. There is some maths done, but you still have to have the opinion that it is all or some parts relevant.

How many would have the opinion that a new grower start off with a 10x10? Some would say no way, others would say excellent start.

And ease of use is an important factor. The labor of love element is the main driver.

CobKits said:

snip

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All you are doing is trying to push your bullshit to sell product. The problem with this is its just that, bullshit. Learn from some of the other vendors here. Sadly, many people will listen to you only to realize that they wasted money on a side step from what they currently have. Keep driving those cobs high and enjoy losing the biggest benefit to them.

busted! im trying to sell less cob chips to each customer!

shoulda known you guys woulda seen right thru me

doz said:

All you are doing is trying to push your bullshit to sell product. The problem with this is its just that, bullshit. Learn from some of the other vendors here. Sadly, many people will listen to you only to realize that they wasted money on a side step from what they currently have. Keep driving those cobs high and enjoy losing the biggest benefit to them.

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You definitely can't accuse him of that. I have been promoting more cobs less heatsink since I joined and if he was a selfish vendor, would be pushing the same thing.

In fact, with the crazy retail prices of the commercial fixtures, using the same amount of dollars on cobs nets a far better quality light source for the same or even more power. That is the game here, beating the system by using high performance components. We do it with computers, customized cars, etc and LEDs are no different.

From the history on this forum, Cobkits just got into business to provide supply of common components DiYers found popular. The onus is still on the builder, they have to figure out what they want to build. Sure they can take advice as part of that research but a lot of advice is often situational or in conflict. Don't blame Cobkits for that.

Haven't bought anything from him, I went Veros instead so I have no vested interest either way other than benefit to the hobby.

There are a lot of wackos on this board, I do not think Cobkits.com is one of them. I have seen him defend other companies and sell products that he doesn't carry. I do appreciate everyone's opinions on this thread and that is just mine.

I think I am going to go with just COB and no QB but I my try them out as side lighting.

As a vet with cancer I thank all of you for being helpful and sharing your knowledge with me.

CobKits said:

busted! im trying to sell less cob chips to each customer!

shoulda known you guys woulda seen right thru me

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Oh the day will come where you will be running rows upon rows of the 1212 equivalents on 6031 1/8th aluminum plate at 1w a piece for 95% efficiency all powered by a sub 200w driver and cooled passively. You can call it something cool like the Eliminator since you would never need to buy anything again. They actually have no data that shows under driven LEDs burning out at all so in theory, they could last forever.

sallygram said:

There are a lot of wackos on this board, I do not think Cobkits.com is one of them. I have seen him defend other companies and sell products that he doesn't carry. I do appreciate everyone's opinions on this thread and that is just mine.

I think I am going to go with just COB and no QB but I my try them out as side lighting.

As a vet with cancer I thank all of you for being helpful and sharing your knowledge with me.

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How about putting a budget out there for us to work with? You will get a number of validated options to consider. I like your priority list and based on that, I would go ultra high efficiency setup putting a lot up front into quality cobs.

Raging Stalk said:

Oh the day will come where you will be running rows upon rows of the 1212 equivalents on 6031 1/8th aluminum plate at 1w a piece for 95% efficiency all powered by a sub 200w driver and cooled passively. You can call it something cool like the Eliminator since you would never need to buy anything again. They actually have no data that shows under driven LEDs burning out at all so in theory, they could last forever.

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you just explained quantum boards to a tee lol.they are the real deal

sixstring2112 said:

you just explained quantum boards to a tee lol.they are the real deal

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10x10 grid of Vero 29c running 10.3w each, 308lm/W. If the product simulator is correct, then thats 95.6% efficency and only 50w of heat to deal with at the fixture.

Could fit on a 24x24" 6031 Aluminum 1/8th plate. 1kw at that efficiency has got to provide some insane amount of coverage. Build cost for the cobs is 3k alone but you only need a couple hundred in drivers and the time.

Is it better than 2 Spectrum King 600s? Hands down easy. Plus it is way cooler, worthy of the 1kw flashlight guys status.

I see why so many people are venturing away from RIU. It has turned into the troll city of 420 around here. Sad days. Whats funny is, people eat up this guys bullshit like its gospel. If they actually figured out efficiency levels of some of the shit he pushes vs. TOTAL cost, they would realize that he likes to suggest lots of dog shit that is no better than a DE at a higher cost.

Just because you have 800w of LED does not mean it can easily replace a 1k DE. I am still waiting on COBKITS to produce an efficiency chart readily available for his customers of all the chips he really pushes. Oh wait...... But go about your business guys. Sure, he is supplying you with parts but dont think its because he wants to help you out

Does Digikey provide an efficiency chart? No
Future Electronics? No
Mouser? No

They provide links to what the manufacture publishes. There is no obligation for them to hold customers hand and figure out the design for them. People charge money for that.

Not sure what your beef with Cobkits is or if you are just some stubborn dinosaur that thinks hps is the end all to be all.

doz said:

Sure, he is supplying you with parts but dont think its because he wants to help you out

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Dude, go take a hot bath or jerk off or something. And take some pics so we can see you naked!!!

Quantum boards though, 7 days yikes


Just focus on the center plant for a sec