One Pink Lemonade - no-till cycle 7 in 4 foot diameter pot, 5x5 tent

Hey @Northwood what a cool grow, 7" of depth is crazy to me. I'm subbed and following. You motivated and inspired me to get out into the woods and get some forest inputs for my compost pile. I'm cutting it close, cold weather on the way. Could you explain how far down to dig for the stuff we want? I mainly dug around the biggest pines on the property, had some luck. It seemed some trees were easier to find humus type material as well as some really dark earthy stuff i found BELOW the very bottom of a really old pine. Would you mind if i posted a couple pics up? I'd like to get your thoughts on some stuff.

myke said:

Looks great! Bubba is my fav. I have a pre 98 one that won’t grow worth a shit in hydro. Coco is fine ,can’t wait for the living soil version. Mines a slow grower almost no stretch and finishes about day 50-55.

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I was wrong with the strain name. It's "Babba Kush 2.5" they call it - supposedly a cross between Death Bubba and Bubba Kush 2. I've never even heard of Bubba Kush 2. lol Obviously a cross of their own making.

The seeds I bought and will be delivered this evening are listed here (last on this page, so scroll to the bottom): https://anccannabis.com/34-street/ I'll not throw my money at Tweed/Canopy Growth, but ANC having a micro license I guess I can support. I like the next day free delivery and this is the same place I got the Pink Lemonade. Hopefully all these pop!

Northwood said:

I did! Tonight she will officially finish her second day of flower. Of course no flowers yet...

She better stretch at least 50%, otherwise I'm going to be wishing I vegged another week or two. By the way, I only found the first pre-flowers last Saturday which is really weird for such a long veg. I'm using feminized seeds, but in the back of my mind was the fear "what if it's male?". It would have been an most fail after going to this amount of trouble - not my worst but damn close. Yes, I would have cried. Lol

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Beautiful. I've definitely been inspired by the system you've got going. I think I'll try to work a few aspects of it into my grows. I currently use 30 gallon totes.

And don't even go there with the "what if it's a male"!!

Amazing.

natureboygrower said:

Hey @Northwood what a cool grow, 7" of depth is crazy to me. I'm subbed and following. You motivated and inspired me to get out into the woods and get some forest inputs for my compost pile. I'm cutting it close, cold weather on the way. Could you explain how far down to dig for the stuff we want? I mainly dug around the biggest pines on the property, had some luck. It seemed some trees were easier to find humus type material as well as some really dark earthy stuff i found BELOW the very bottom of a really old pine. Would you mind if i posted a couple pics up? I'd like to get your thoughts on some stuff.

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You don't want to go very deep because most of the micros hang around the top 4 or 5 inches, starting just under the forest liter and pine needles/leaves that act as a mulch. If you see a white mat under there, take it and don't worry about the little roots and stuff you include with it. Most life is found in the rhizosphere, so if you don't encounter thin little roots you're probably looking in the wrong spot. Other varieties of microbes can be found in old abandoned field soil that's chocked with weeds too. Another great place to find stuff to increase your biological diversity.

Sure feel free to pot a pic of it. Let's take a look!

Geneiac said:

Beautiful. I've definitely been inspired by the system you've got going. I think I'll try to work a few aspects of it into my grows. I currently use 30 gallon totes.

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You can definitely make this system work in 30 gallon totes.

Northwood said:

You don't want to go very deep because most of the micros hang around the top 4 or 5 inches, starting just under the forest liter and pine needles/leaves that act as a mulch. If you see a white mat under there, take it and don't worry about the little roots and stuff you include with it. Most life is found in the rhizosphere, so if you don't encounter thin little roots you're probably looking in the wrong spot. Other varieties of microbes can be found in old abandoned field soil that's chocked with weeds too. Another great place to find stuff to increase your biological diversity.

Sure feel free to pot a pic of it. Let's take a look!

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Thank you, I appreciate ya. It's nice getting help from someone who has done it.

I had a hard time finding the "sweet" spot between pine needles/spruce/leaves litter and clay, which is pretty common in my woods. I think I found what I should be looking for but i mixed other dirt, mosses, very rotted moss covered tree stumps etc in my buckets. I did come across those little roots. I'll have to focus more on those, hoping to get out one more time this weekend. Here's some of the stuff so far


This was attached to the underside of a very old pine's buried tree root. I left it.


Picked up some seaweed a couple days ago and I have the perfect field in mind I can dig a little soil from. It was all cow pasture 60-75 years ago. Thanks again for your time, man

natureboygrower said:

Here's some of the stuff so far

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Looks great. It's obviously fungal dominated by the looks of it, and that's a good thing. I'm sure it will increase your bacterial diversity as well. I think you're on the right track

@Northwood great thread... subbed and along for the ride... i am currently working on setting up living soil no till containers in my space, currently grow organically but its not no till, wasnt sure if it would be successful in a container upposed to a bed but now i have hope lol. This has been extremely helpful thank you... happy growing everyone.

@Gardenator I've been able to get this system to work in 15 gallon plastic recycling bins, so I know we don't necessarily need over 100 gallons of soil. I probably wouldn't go much less than 15 though, and more is always easier - especially only having to deal with a single pot with multiple plants in it. Usually I grow 4 plants in my current big pot. Wait, is that a pot or a round bed? Can beds be round? Lol /s

Northwood said:

@Gardenator I've been able to get this system to work in 15 gallon plastic recycling bins, so I know we don't necessarily need over 100 gallons of soil. I probably wouldn't go much less than 15 though, and more is always easier - especially only having to deal with a single pot with multiple plants in it. Usually I grow 4 plants in my current big pot. Wait, is that a pot or a round bed? Can beds be round? Lol /s

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I guess when i say beds i mean similar to the grassfed roots no till bed kit things they sell, to me thats a bed and i guess really anything rectangular is referred to as a bed and anything round is referred to as a pot, only reason they differ in name im guessing lol... i was considerring a 4x4 bed kit (no bluemat bs i hand water my ladies) but i could also do 4 20 gal pots but i think i can fit more plants into the bed and afford them to become a bit bigger then the idividual pots. I see why no till is hard to achieve in a small container and the reason i think ill be going with the 4x4 bed upposed to containers. Seems like it is the easiestly sustainable way to continue on with a perpetual no till grow.

Gardenator said:

I guess when i say beds i mean similar to the grassfed roots no till bed kit things they sell, to me thats a bed and i guess really anything rectangular is referred to as a bed and anything round is referred to as a pot, only reason they differ in name im guessing lol... i was considerring a 4x4 bed kit (no bluemat bs i hand water my ladies) but i could also do 4 20 gal pots but i think i can fit more plants into the bed and afford them to become a bit bigger then the idividual pots. I see why no till is hard to achieve in a small container and the reason i think ill be going with the 4x4 bed upposed to containers. Seems like it is the easiestly sustainable way to continue on with a perpetual no till grow.

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I just got my raised bed in the mail for my 4x4 super excited for it already gathered some well rotted white birch to fill the bottom with and have some great fish compost I picked up from manitoulin island. Also have a bunch of ammendments to go with and of course red wigglers from my worm bin.... wife says I have to wait till Christmas to set up the bed in my tent

Brandon137 said:

I just got my raised bed in the mail for my 4x4 super excited for it already gathered some well rotted white birch to fill the bottom with and have some great fish compost I picked up from manitoulin island. Also have a bunch of ammendments to go with and of course red wigglers from my worm bin.... wife says I have to wait till Christmas to set up the bed in my tent

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Haha I'm picturing you like a little kid early on Christmas morning and excitedly getting out of bed before the parents to check what Santa brought them. Only in your case you'd be rushing out of bed to get a start on your grow setup.

Just don't bother including the white birch bark in there. I swear the stuff is more resistant to decomposition than petroleum-based plastics. lol

Don't forget to post the photos of your setup on Boxing day!

Northwood said:

Haha I'm picturing you like a little kid early on Christmas morning and excitedly getting out of bed before the parents to check what Santa brought them. Only in your case you'd be rushing out of bed to get a start on your grow setup.

Just don't bother including the white birch bark in there. I swear the stuff is more resistant to decomposition than petroleum-based plastics. lol

Don't forget to post the photos of your setup on Boxing day!

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Lol yup you got it that's going to be me I'll exclude the bark thanks for the tip this will be my first time making my own soil so it should be interesting I have some old ffof that's got a few runs on it I'll throw that in as well I will definitely post some pictures... come on Christmas lol

It's officially day 6 of flower. Obviously there's no flowers yet, and no sign of stretch yet either. Based on the stubby "indica" nature of this strain, I don't expect much stretch over the next 2 weeks as she transitions into flower. She's easily doubled the number of leaves in the canopy within the last week so I should have enough to power through its flowering stage. The purpose here is to create a nice base canopy that contains no nodes - just leaves along the stem, with the colas growing over that green base layer. That way I don't have to sacrifice many leaves in order to uncover shaded buds later on. The extra leaves also increased the humidity in the tent by 5 points (YES!) so I'm running at 35% humidity rather than 30% now. She's also taking a lot more water now - 20 litres per day.

I feel it may be time to stop pinching off its side-nodes and just let her go for now until I figure out how much she might stretch over the next week or so. Sadly ANC Cannabis who breeds these seeds doesn't mention anything about what to expect, except that it's more difficult to grow than their other strains (not sure why) and has a flowering period of 8 to 5.5 weeks.

I'm pushing her hard now with all lights on full power. I added one of my bathroom bars to provide extra coverage where the light intensity was falling off toward the middle. The bar is holding 8 14W bulbs at 3000K spectrum. In total that's now 1,072 watts of power with 42.88 watts per square foot. That's a record wattage for me, yet the plant doesn't seem to mind it. The tent is running warmer of course, hitting 31 Celsius during lights on and 22 C with lights off. I wont even bother trying to figure out the VPD, because I know when I look at the chart it will tell me that my plant should be dead. lol

Northwood said:

It's officially day 6 of flower. Obviously there's no flowers yet, and no sign of stretch yet either. Based on the stubby "indica" nature of this strain, I don't expect much stretch over the next 2 weeks as she transitions into flower. She's easily doubled the number of leaves in the canopy within the last week so I should have enough to power through its flowering stage. The purpose here is to create a nice base canopy that contains no nodes - just leaves along the stem, with the colas growing over that green base layer. That way I don't have to sacrifice many leaves in order to uncover shaded buds later on. The extra leaves also increased the humidity in the tent by 5 points (YES!) so I'm running at 35% humidity rather than 30% now. She's also taking a lot more water now - 20 litres per day.

I feel it may be time to stop pinching off its side-nodes and just let her go for now until I figure out how much she might stretch over the next week or so. Sadly ANC Cannabis who breeds these seeds doesn't mention anything about what to expect, except that it's more difficult to grow than their other strains (not sure why) and has a flowering period of 8 to 5.5 weeks.

I'm pushing her hard now with all lights on full power. I added one of my bathroom bars to provide extra coverage where the light intensity was falling off toward the middle. The bar is holding 8 14W bulbs at 3000K spectrum. In total that's now 1,072 watts of power with 42.88 watts per square foot. That's a record wattage for me, yet the plant doesn't seem to mind it. The tent is running warmer of course, hitting 31 Celsius during lights on and 22 C with lights off. I wont even bother trying to figure out the VPD, because I know when I look at the chart it will tell me that my plant should be dead. lol


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Looks awesome man... love the double trellis too!

Gardenator said:

Looks awesome man... love the double trellis too!

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Thanks! I don't always use the scrog method of training, and this is the first time I've made use of the extra 6 feet of netting. With some of those branches growing horizontally for over 2 months, it's going to need the support of the second layer for sure.

I snagged a bunch of those bathroom bars from Wayfair about a year ago - on sale for only $17 Canadian! I definitely lucked out because they have quality ceramic sockets that would cost me way more than $17 just to buy 8 sockets separately. The fixtures themselves look cheap as hell though. No way would I put those bathroom bars in my actual bathrooms. lol

Northwood said:

Thanks! I don't always use the scrog method of training, and this is the first time I've made use of the extra 6 feet of netting. With some of those branches growing horizontally for over 2 months, it's going to need the support of the second layer for sure.

I snagged a bunch of those bathroom bars from Wayfair about a year ago - on sale for only $17 Canadian! I definitely lucked out because they have quality ceramic sockets that would cost me way more than $17 just to buy 8 sockets separately. The fixtures themselves look cheap as hell though. No way would I put those bathroom bars in my actual bathrooms. lol

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Im getting my first no till bed this coming weekend, should be here saturday via 1 week prime shipping lol... im wonderring what advice you have for filling a no till bed for a first timer? I have some promix bxm 1:1 with ffof and some ewc and hot compost material for it, i also have some cover crop started in some trays that has: crimson clover, medium red clover, white clover, yellow blossom sweet clover, hairy vetch, common vetch, fenugreek, forage peas, flax, cowpeas, buck wheat, millet, and lentil. Im not really sure what to mulch with (was planning on using all my trim for this). I also know that there should be some type of mineral layer in there or lava rocks or some type of material like this yes? Im seeing a bunch of different things and opinions here and was wondering what your thoughts were? Should my hot compost and ewc be at the bottom? Do i build the bed like i would my containers? It will be a 4x4 grassroots bed kit, its 1.5ft tall i believe. Your no till container looks great i have faith in your opinion on the matter so thank you in advance for any advice i appreciate it.

Gardenator said:

Im getting my first no till bed this coming weekend, should be here saturday via 1 week prime shipping lol... im wonderring what advice you have for filling a no till bed for a first timer? I have some promix bxm 1:1 with ffof and some ewc and hot compost material for it, i also have some cover crop started in some trays that has: crimson clover, medium red clover, white clover, yellow blossom sweet clover, hairy vetch, common vetch, fenugreek, forage peas, flax, cowpeas, buck wheat, millet, and lentil. Im not really sure what to mulch with (was planning on using all my trim for this). I also know that there should be some type of mineral layer in there or lava rocks or some type of material like this yes? Im seeing a bunch of different things and opinions here and was wondering what your thoughts were? Should my hot compost and ewc be at the bottom? Do i build the bed like i would my containers? It will be a 4x4 grassroots bed kit, its 1.5ft tall i believe. Your no till container looks great i have faith in your opinion on the matter so thank you in advance for any advice i appreciate it.

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Good Lord, that's quite a diversified cover crop! lol

I didn't place anything "hot" (meaning having a lot of available nutrients) in my initial soil mix, except what was in the Pro-mix Organic Herb and Vegetable mix already. I didn't do any layering. For minerals, I did add azomite (the worms need their grit!), and a kilogram or so of "calcium" bentonite, along with some extra perlite (course kind). Yeah I know perlite will crumble in years, but any drainage addition is really only temporary until you build your soil structure anyway. That doesn't happen overnight though. I'm just starting to make progress on that now. However I've had no drainage issues. Water still pools pretty quickly at the bottom of my tent if I give it a bit too much water than it can handle at once.

What you need to be thinking of during your first grow in the soil is your second grow. Once those seeds go in there, anything else you add to your soil after that in at least my style of no-till will likely only benefit that plant late in flower, or more likely sometime in the next grow cycle. I would highly recommend you go to your nearest animal feed store and buy a sack of alfalfa pellets, and add that into your initial soil mix. I wouldn't exceed 3% though, but it's a great inoculant and will also supply all the N you need for your first cycle.

Cannabis leaves don't really represent a huge percentage of the entire plant's biomass. But yeah, I just drop every leaf or pruning back in the pot for cycling, usually just over my hay/straw mulch throughout most of my grow. The roots and stems of your old plants will really only be available to the cycle after the one you add them too (cycle #3). Getting through the first 2 cycles is hardest, but after that the system takes care of itself with nothing for you to do except crazy stupid experiments like trying to grow a single plant to fill a 5X5 tent. Lol

Edit: I just thought of an analogy to no-till growing this way. It's like reloading ammo using a Dillon XL650 with case feeder. There are 5 stations in the press, and so you need to repeat the place bullet, and pull lever 5 full times before the first finished 9mm round finally drops out. But now that all stations are filled, you only need to press and place a bullet once for every stroke of that handle, making 1000 rounds reloaded per hour easily obtainable. No-till is kinda like that.