*****official***** MAGA therad

TacoMac

TacoMac

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
Breaking News: Official video from China
Shanghai government: The Shanghai government will fully assist Tesla to build Gigafactory in China
Shanghai Lingang and put it into production as soon as possible. $TSLA #TeslaChina #Tesla https://m.v.qq.com/play.html?&vid=j0754tsjcjd&ptag=www.google.com%23v.play.adaptor%232&mreferrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F…


6:16 PM - 11 Aug 2018
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Wow. Just fucking wow.

Dude, you do realize that Chinese businesses are allowed to lie to outside nations, don't you?

Find that same announcement from Tesla.

You wont. Because it doesn't exist.
 
K

kindnug

Well-Known Member
Probably why Tesla is moving from an American Auto Company TO Chinese Auto Company:hump:
We don't need the jobs, send them to China:roll:
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Wow. Just fucking wow.

Dude, you do realize that Chinese businesses are allowed to lie to outside nations, don't you?

Find that same announcement from Tesla.

You wont. Because it doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Why does this get you so emotional? Harley Davidson is building bikes in Malaysia (or is it Thailand?) and there are all sorts of crazy incentives for major corporations to do their business there. Elsewhere too. If the US had it's head on straight, it would find creative ways to coddle innovative companies as China and other countries are doing rather than give money to wealthy people for nothing. I can't criticize Musk for his decision to take advantage of what China offers.

Yes, Musk is nuts. On that we agree. Even Musk agrees, apparently. Actually, his concession that he's going crazy is reassuring to me. I always prefer truth to fake.

But then again

Your business analysis is naive. I've been part a quite a few startups. Every one of them required belief in the face of overwhelming analysis that we'd fail. Sometimes we did. When we didn't, we kicked fucking ass. Just saying that it's easy to talk yourself out of business.

Making money and building a new company is a daunting task. The worst time is in the middle times. In the middle of every project, everything seems to be going to shit. Debts mount, products come back with unanticipated failure modes, supply chains squeal to a halt, money guys who have no clue start kibbitzing and complaining to the press, competitors claim new tech that never materialize yet in the moment analysts claim we've been leapfrogged and so forth. If it works out and we succeed, everybody starts talking about how it was inevitable that we'd succeed.

Wall Street is stupid. They make money but they are stupid. They don't know shit about Tesla. Some are short and pumping out negative news. You can't trust what Wall Street says.

Tesla is a risky venture. It may very well fail and everybody will tell us "I told you so". If it doesn't everybody will say "I told you so". LOL
 
K

kindnug

Well-Known Member
Ford Credit borrowed $15.9 billion dollars, GM’s financing borrowed $13.9 billion.
I do agree with banks blackmailing us.
American Auto manufacturers were all about to go bankrupt, Ford just picked a different route to save themselves from bankruptcy.
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Why does this get you so emotional? Harley Davidson is building bikes in Malaysia (or is it Thailand?) and there are all sorts of crazy incentives for major corporations to do their business there. Elsewhere too. If the US had it's head on straight, it would find creative ways to coddle innovative companies as China and other countries are doing rather than give money to wealthy people for nothing. I can't criticize Musk for his decision to take advantage of what China offers.

Yes, Musk is nuts. On that we agree. Even Musk agrees, apparently. Actually, his concession that he's going crazy is reassuring to me. I always prefer truth to fake.

But then again

Your business analysis is naive. I've been part a quite a few startups. Every one of them required belief in the face of overwhelming analysis that we'd fail. Sometimes we did. When we didn't, we kicked fucking ass. Just saying that it's easy to talk yourself out of business.

Making money and building a new company is a daunting task. The worst time is in the middle times. In the middle of every project, everything seems to be going to shit. Debts mount, products come back with unanticipated failure modes, supply chains squeal to a halt, money guys who have no clue start kibbitzing and complaining to the press, competitors claim new tech that never materialize yet in the moment analysts claim we've been leapfrogged and so forth. If it works out and we succeed, everybody starts talking about how it was inevitable that we'd succeed.

Wall Street is stupid. They make money but they are stupid. They don't know shit about Tesla. Some are short and pumping out negative news. You can't trust what Wall Street says.

Tesla is a risky venture. It may very well fail and everybody will tell us "I told you so". If it doesn't everybody will say "I told you so". LOL
Click to expand...
I told u so....:-D
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
kindnug said:
Ford Credit borrowed $15.9 billion dollars, GM’s financing borrowed $13.9 billion.
I do agree with banks blackmailing us.
American Auto manufacturers were all about to go bankrupt, Ford just picked a different route to save themselves from bankruptcy.
Click to expand...
The loans kept the country from going into a deeper recession. The US got its money back and made a profit.

If you are saying we shouldn't have done it at the time, I don't know what to say about that other than history proves we should have.

If you are saying we should have broken up the big banks and put rules in place to end "too big to fail" banking, I totally agree.
 
MichiganMedGrower

MichiganMedGrower

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Other than everything you said you were called out on and still haven't answered.
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You would have to live under a rock and have no friends here to not know about unfair banning.

Bunch of members change their avatars to show it when it happens in respect to the unfairly banned member.

Those same members warn me not to post in politics.

So you have no friends here?
 
K

kindnug

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
The loans kept the country from going into a deeper recession. The US got its money back and made a profit.

If you are saying we shouldn't have done it at the time, I don't know what to say about that other than history proves we should have.

If you are saying we should have broken up the big banks and put rules in place to end "too big to fail" banking, I totally agree.
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I wasn't saying it shouldn't have been done, it's just Ford wasn't portrayed as part of the bail-out when in reality they had to take out a large line of credit also.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
kindnug said:
I wasn't saying it shouldn't have been done, it's just Ford wasn't portrayed as part of the bail-out when in reality they had to take out a large line of credit also.
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Correctomundo. They sure did.

I think it's fair to be outraged that big money put the people of this country at risk to the tune of several trillion dollars in loans to companies that were about to fail due to poor oversight of the financial industry and big banker-greed.
 
travisw

travisw

Well-Known Member
kindnug said:
Ford Credit borrowed $15.9 billion dollars, GM’s financing borrowed $13.9 billion.
I do agree with banks blackmailing us.
American Auto manufacturers were all about to go bankrupt, Ford just picked a different route to save themselves from bankruptcy.
Click to expand...
Where are your numbers from?

GM borrowed $19.3 billion dollars from Tarp and would have certainly gone out of business, without the government bailout

Ford took a 5.9 billion dollar loan from the Dept. of Energy. They're scheduled to pay that back by 2022. We could argue the efficacy of the loan, given Ford shipped those jobs to Mexico, but these companies were not in the same position.

The feds took over GM and Chrysler. The Obama administration used the take-over to set new auto efficiency standards. Ford's recession losses were very similar to Honda and Toyota. Had GM and Chrysler been allowed to fail, many analyst argue, Ford would have picked up market share.
 
K

kindnug

Well-Known Member
Ford didn't take loans from TARP
Look up TALF, they took far more loans than 5.9

You have to dig deeper to know the truth.
Where are your numbers from? Just Dept. of Energy loans?

How about all the lost jobs they sent to Mexico, now that you bring it up?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
travisw said:
This isn't true according to what I'm reading.

The government lost 11.2 billion dollars on the GM bailout and 1.3 on Chrysler.

U.S. government says it lost $11.2 billion on GM bailout
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-treasury-idUSBREA3T0MR20140430
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On balance the country made money from it's portfolio of loans made in the bailouts.

In total, 11 companies received at least $10 billion in bailouts from the government during the financial crisis. However, the government wasn't simply lending money to these companies. It was investing in them by taking ownership stakes. In most cases, the government was essentially buying shares of stock much like ordinary investors do in their trading accounts.

For the most part, the government was later able to sell those shares of stock for a large profit in the years that followed. In fact, the government took a loss on only two of its 25 largest bailouts.

https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2017-01-19/financial-crisis-bailouts-have-earned-taxpayers-billions

Edit: Year and a half-old article.
Financial Crisis Bailouts Have Earned Taxpayers Billions
The government's corporate assistance during the financial crisis has returned profits to the Treasury.

By Wayne Duggan, Contributor | Jan. 19, 2017, at 9:15 a.m.
 
K

kindnug

Well-Known Member
Taxpayers lost over 10bil on GM bail-out, but the bank bail-out is still ongoing beyond the 700bil...
Ford took 5.9 from Dept. of energy + over 9bil from TALF:wink:
 
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