Obamacare is Dead - Long Live Healthcare!

Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
jeffchr said:
You have to admit that I described a democracy correctly. Because I did.

Citing examples such as gang rape and marijuana regulation bring questons of the degree to which the individual rights are exploited for the benefit of the majority.

Either you are on-board with the democratic process or you are not, in which case, as the saying goes, "love it or leave it".

I don't call it freedom, I call it democracy. And I'm not trying to claim it is perfect or really, today, even all that good. I agree with 86% of the country, in a recent CNN poll, who think government is broken.

Democrats are liberal; Republicans are conservative. They have, in the past, been able to legislate. Lately, they have not. Why? Because they no longer represent the people. They represent themselves and corporate America, to a large degree, and they have become ineffective legislators.

The "news" media, liberal and conservative, is in the business of ratings, not news. The result is an uninformed or misinformed electorate incapable of deciphering the real political truth. An informed electorate is a critical necessity in a democracy.

I think the only way out of this mess is to elect legislators who recognize the problems and want to fix them.

For instatnce, I don't agree with Ron Paul's social platform, I do agree that his economic policies are sound, ie I think they would result in an economy that would thrive. But, there would be chaos and suffering during the transition through a radical change in how America functions economically.

I also like Ron Paul because I think he is honest and believes what he says, and he does not cater to lobbyists.

I am totally disgusted by the Democrats for their postion on tort reform. It is contrary to their stated values and it is one of the issues at the core of the healthcare debate and, really, at the core of the lobbyist issue. Shame on them.

In summary, I think it is a bit more practical to talk about specifics that are relevant today, and leave the Democratic theory debate to the philosphers.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muHg86Mys7I

Perhaps this will explain my philosophy of freedom. I think freedom is always relevant, don't you?
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
The votes aren't there. The house can't pass the senate bill and the senate can't pass the house bill. Obama's monday proposal and the dog and pony show tomorrow are just for show - "look how hard I'm fighting." LOL

RIP Obama - Rest in Pieces!

Long live the party of HELL NO, WE WON'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!
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ROFL.........SO WRONG.....GET READY FOR HEALTHCARE REFORM :lol:
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
londonfog said:
ROFL.........SO WRONG.....GET READY FOR HEALTHCARE REFORM :lol:
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At 5:54 pm firedog lake has "No" at 206 with another 10 leaning no. There are 11 undecided and the dems would need all 11 plus to peel one away from the no side. It looks like game over. All the inevitability and we have the votes was a giant ruse like everything else about this administration.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
At 5:54 pm firedog lake has "No" at 206 with another 10 leaning no. There are 11 undecided and the dems would need all 11 plus to peel one away from the no side. It looks like game over. All the inevitability and we have the votes was a giant ruse like everything else about this administration.
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ROFL....Well today is the day we see just how right ( wrong ) you are... Lets see the math...numbers don't lie people do!!!!!
 
blakkmask

blakkmask

Well-Known Member
Illegal Smile said:
Yes, that may be, I'd be in favor of it. I also think there are areas that should be addressed to improve the system. But the dems don't want to pass the bill the republicans can agree on and the majority of the people would approve of. At least not until they are convinced they can't get more.

So instead of starting over now and getting it right, we have to play this game of trying to ram something through that doesn't have the votes and is against the will of the people. Only when dems can admit they have lost can we pick up the pieces.

But I agree, some dinky fine tuning bill will pass and Obama will try to claim credit for having saved the world.
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...But by night, Mild Mannered president, Barack Obama, becomes....THE BLACK AVENGER, DUN DADA DUN.....
 
I

Illegal Smile

Guest
Whether something passes or not, who thinks the tactics being used won't be turned against the dems before long?
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Sounds like someone changing their tune about the passing of the bill....LOL...you guys need to stop underestimating Obama and the power of change... I guess your predictions are wrong...GET READY FOR HEATHCARE REFORM.....LONG LIVE OBAMA CARE....thanks Illegal Smile for putting up this great thread so we can see just how wrong you can be....
 
K

Keenly

Guest
it wont pass london, you can stop trolling now


the american people have already made their decision, we do NOT want a health care system in which we are FORCED to pay for insurance... we have been over this before


if this bill makes it through congress (after how long exactly?) it will anger a very large amount of people simply because of the extortion, and because we have already said NO, yet they cram it down our throats anyway




so hey btw london, show me where the government gets the authority to force me to buy health insurance?
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
Keenly said:
so hey btw london, show me where the government gets the authority to force me to buy health insurance?
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Why don't you show me where the government gets the authority to levy federal income taxes? But they do anyway. Good luck getting those to go away
 
TexasMonster

TexasMonster

Member
Keenly said:
it wont pass london, you can stop trolling now


the american people have already made their decision, we do NOT want a health care system in which we are FORCED to pay for insurance... we have been over this before


if this bill makes it through congress (after how long exactly?) it will anger a very large amount of people simply because of the extortion, and because we have already said NO, yet they cram it down our throats anyway




so hey btw london, show me where the government gets the authority to force me to buy health insurance?
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I am afraid Obama is going to take us down this Socialized road. Look for Constitutional challanges. If they pass ObamaCare they will not stop there. We all agree that there are real issues with our current healthcare system as it relates to cost, barring that, we have the best healthcare in the world. There are not many things our Government has gotten its hands on that is going well yet some dunderheads think we need to assign the gov more of our tax dollars and control over our health. I hope you guys are understanding this, this is not about reform, its about contol of you. Its that simple. Hitlery Klingon and her husband President Klingon have surrounded themselves with communist for years. Have yall ever noticed the folks Obama has placed around himself. I know of two that are admitted communist.

Hows that hopey changey workin for you by the way?

Ok, off my soapbox

Just so you know, they are going to pass this one way or another.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Keenly said:
it wont pass london, you can stop trolling now


the american people have already made their decision, we do NOT want a health care system in which we are FORCED to pay for insurance... we have been over this before


if this bill makes it through congress (after how long exactly?) it will anger a very large amount of people simply because of the extortion, and because we have already said NO, yet they cram it down our throats anyway




so hey btw london, show me where the government gets the authority to force me to buy health insurance?
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The same way that you pay taxes...and the same why that a person like you probable will be subsidized anyway( just going by some previous post you have made ).....Hmmmm do you have a car ?????? Hmmmm do you have a job ?????
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
...you guys need to stop underestimating Obama and the power of change...
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i'm sure that if/when they manage to pass this abortion of a bill you and your ilk will crow and claim some great victory over the forces of evil. i'm sure you'll take it as a sign that change is in the air and the dawn of a new day is at hand. i'm just as sure that folks like me will just shake their heads and laugh sorrowfully at the naivete and short-sightedness of your celebration. it will be such a hollow victory, with such deleterious effects on the growth and liberty of future generations. another nail in the coffin of free enterprise, another step toward totalitarianism, another cornerstone planted in the foundation of the omnipotent state. just as the stimulus bill funneled taxpayer dollars into a fund for the promotion of corruption and government control, this sad attempt at healthcare reform will be noted by historians as another step away from the self-determination of the common man. the use of government force has never led to meaningful social change and this will be no exception. small minds and welfare babies will cheer, but our founding fathers will turn over in their graves and the constitution will groan under the weight of another massive increase in the control of intrusive government. this is nothing new. this same story has been enacted over and over again by despots around the world, restriction in the name of the common good and the illusion of mob rule to placate the ignorant.
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
TexasMonster said:
... We all agree that there are real issues with our current healthcare system as it relates to cost, barring that, we have the best healthcare in the world....
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Kudos for pointing out the fact that we pay out the ass for health insurance in this country. About 17% of GDP. The next highest amount paid by any wealthy nation is a mere 12% or so... http://www.appletreeblog.com/wp-content/2009/07/health-care-by-country.jpg

But you are totally ignoring the fat that in addition to paying out the ass, we leave our fellow citizens to suffer the consequences. Hundreds of thousands go bankrupt due to medical debt every year. Tens of thousands die from preventable/curable medical issues. Perhaps if you are part of the wealthy elite, then yes, you may have access to some of the more advanced medical treatments available. But it does the majority of citizens no good to have the best technology in the world and no access to it.
 
U

usda101

Active Member
Illegal Smile said:
The votes aren't there. The house can't pass the senate bill and the senate can't pass the house bill. Obama's monday proposal and the dog and pony show tomorrow are just for show - "look how hard I'm fighting." LOL

RIP Obama - Rest in Pieces!

Long live the party of HELL NO, WE WON'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!
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You wanna update your post ?LOL
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
i'm sure that if/when they manage to pass this abortion of a bill you and your ilk will crow and claim some great victory over the forces of evil. i'm sure you'll take it as a sign that change is in the air and the dawn of a new day is at hand. i'm just as sure that folks like me will just shake their heads and laugh sorrowfully at the naivete and short-sightedness of your celebration. it will be such a hollow victory, with such deleterious effects on the growth and liberty of future generations. another nail in the coffin of free enterprise, another step toward totalitarianism, another cornerstone planted in the foundation of the omnipotent state. just as the stimulus bill funneled taxpayer dollars into a fund for the promotion of corruption and government control, this sad attempt at healthcare reform will be noted by historians as another step away from the self-determination of the common man. the use of government force has never led to meaningful social change and this will be no exception. small minds and welfare babies will cheer, but our founding fathers will turn over in their graves and the constitution will groan under the weight of another massive increase in the control of intrusive government. this is nothing new. this same story has been enacted over and over again by despots around the world, restriction in the name of the common good and the illusion of mob rule to placate the ignorant.
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Hmmmmm evil would be more a child being not getting coverage because of pre-existing condition...:spew:
 
dukeofbaja

dukeofbaja

New Member
undertheice said:
...this same story has been enacted over and over again by despots around the world, restriction in the name of the common good and the illusion of mob rule to placate the ignorant.
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You're right, this same scenario has been enacted over and over again....and it results in universal coverage for all citizens at a lower cost than we pay. See Taiwan. Or Japan. Or France. Or Germany. Or England. Or Switzerland....or....should I even bother going on?

Seriously, your doomsday predictions are nothing short of purple prose. Just a bunch of libertarian fear mongering hyperbole that has .00000001% basis in reality.
 
TexasMonster

TexasMonster

Member
dukeofbaja said:
You're right, this same scenario has been enacted over and over again....and it results in universal coverage for all citizens at a lower cost than we pay. See Taiwan. Or Japan. Or France. Or Germany. Or England. Or Switzerland....or....should I even bother going on?

Seriously, your doomsday predictions are nothing short of purple prose. Just a bunch of libertarian fear mongering hyperbole that has .00000001% basis in reality.
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I try to lurk as much as possible here and gain yall knowledge (which I certainly do appreciate) but this is a eggciting subject. Please keep in mind that we are only arguing politics and I mean you no ill will nor do I think of you in an ill manner just because I fall on the Right side of the isle and you dont.

As for the quoted comment above, one has to look no further than Massachusetts and their Romny (repub by the way)Care to see what a mess this is going to be.
 
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