• Here is a link to the full explanation: https://rollitup.org/t/welcome-back-did-you-try-turning-it-off-and-on-again.1104810/

Obamacare, Climate Change Hoax, Cap and Trade - ALL DEAD!

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
What I don't get is
why did they deliberate for weeks/months over
sending troops to Afganistan (I have no problem with that personally)
But healthcare is "OMG do something now!"
Every time the government says something is an emergency,
watch you ass.

Thats how we get patroit act BS
Iraq war
finacial bail outs
and on and on.
So little wonder why we want it to
Slow down
Stop
Start over.
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
What I don't get is
why did they deliberate for weeks/months over
sending troops to Afganistan (I have no problem with that personally)
But healthcare is "OMG do something now!"
Every time the government says something is an emergency,
watch you ass.

Thats how we get patroit act BS
Iraq war
finacial bail outs
and on and on.
So little wonder why we want it to
Slow down
Stop
Start over.
maybe because people are dying
 

TheBlazehero

Active Member
It's all a sham! That's the whole thing about it! We idiots are too dumb to do anything about it. Small business owner, you can't afford health care because they are taxing the piss out of you. Unemployment, worker's compensation, SS, Medicare, all this BS so you can't get ahead. You think that is how big business plays? Not when they're holding hands with the politicians!

Afghanistan! Per capita income of their people = $400! In 2000, Taliban stopped the opium production. After 9/11 it was started back up. We fund them, then go in to take them down. No problem killing those people? The blood of their children is on your hands.

Bail outs! LOL! Not capitalism! Create money out of nowhere to bail them out. Creating money = tax = your dollar does not buy as much. Give loans to bank to pay back the Fed. Sick fuck bankers fucking up the banking system/market on purpose.

We need smaller government, less taxes. All these fucking lies being sold to us since we step in to these fucked up fall in line schools. Where are my bill of rights motherfuckers. Protect my life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness and stfu. Allegiance for protection!
 

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
maybe because people are dying
If you show up at a hospital with no insurance see if they kick you out. Nobody is dying due to lack of health care. They are dying because they are stupid.

My cousins husband didn't have health insurance. He refused to go to the hospital. He died last week from the swine flu. Guess what though, they treated him for a broken leg a year ago. He knows they will help him.

His stupidity cost him his life.

fyi- he had advanced diabetes. Everyone else in the house had swine flu but was fine cause they went to the doctor.
 

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
I was really talking about the OP who doesn't appear to be able to articulate any thoughts of his own and is constantly spewing retarded AM radio talking points on these board. The point of this whole post is "har, har, obama sucks because he's not able to pass his agenda quickly enough" and frankly that's just dumb.

I know that many old-school republicans (including bush sr.) are appalled at what their party has become and I can understand that. Instead of discussing differences on policy, it's all become about questioning people's motives and implying that they are unpatriotic or communist muslims or whatever. I honestly think that his will hurt their chances of regaining congress or the whitehouse because most americans aren't as interested in partisan culture wars as they are in bread and butter issues. And if the housing market, jobs and financial markets recover as it seems they are, then teh goose is pretty much cooked for hard-right ideologues.

Also, I don't agree with your analysis about the dems in congress at all, though. The obama train severely outmaneuvered the clintons during the primaries and most of them understand that the wind has shifted. A lot might happen in the next couple of years, but I definitely think the trend isn't favoring the clintons.

As for resin225: here is where he is wrong. Not being able to pass some of the big items during the first year of a 4-year term is hardly a failure, especially when you spent most of it cleaning up the last guys mess. Let's have this discussion again two years from now. In the meantime, how about we all have a nice glass of ice cold cool aid. Oh yeah!!!
A disgrace!!! You spelled Kool Aid with a C!!! Tisk tisk... :bigjoint:bongsmilie

Obama hasn't cleaned up anything though. The water appears muddier which is why his numbers are so low. Soon the polls will show that more would want Bush back than Obama now. It's really close right now.
 

abe23

Active Member
Let's just take this one comment as symptomatic of the whole post. Making statements like this doesn't advance any point you might have. It is said that profanity is the effort of a feeble mind trying to express itself forcefully. Likewise, the "retarded gambit" just makes it seem as if you are really pissed but can't think of anything substantive to say so it's like "I'll show them.... I-I'll call them retarded! HA fuckin-A I'll call 'em retarded. That'll show 'em who's who around here!"

Indeed it does.
No....that's more like let's take one phrase of a post out of context and avoid actually talking about substance, but that's fine.

Again, can you tell me how not accomplishing everything you set out to do in the first year of your presidency is a failure? Seriously, I didn't like some of the things bush did in his first year in office (like pulling out of the chemical and biological weapons treaties) but I would never have had the gall to claim his presidency after less than 12 months in office.

That said, from your posts on this board, it's pretty safe to assume that you are incapable of developing any thoughts of your own and prefer to offer far-right talking points. I never called you retarded but yes....I do think those talking points are retarded.

Believe it or not, I actually prefer to talk about the issue at hand rather than insulting you.
 

abe23

Active Member
A disgrace!!! You spelled Kool Aid with a C!!! Tisk tisk... :bigjoint:bongsmilie

Obama hasn't cleaned up anything though. The water appears muddier which is why his numbers are so low. Soon the polls will show that more would want Bush back than Obama now. It's really close right now.
Tisk, tisk indeed! How the hell did that happen.....oh yeah. :eyesmoke:

Seriously, you don't think that what the administration has been doing over the past year has done anything to prevent the financial system from collapsing? Last year, we were looking at chain reaction were the housing bubble collapsing would freeze up credit and send the whole economy into a tailspin, exactly as it happened in 1929. That's the reason everyone knew that the piece of shit TARP bill was necessary but still had to eat it because the alternative was just so much worse. Had john mccain won the election and gotten the economy where it is today, I would be giving him credit for that even if I didn't vote for the guy.

Too much of the criticism of obama is based on politics and ideology rather than pragmatism and what's good for the country. I criticized bush for a lot things when he was in office, but I did give him credit for the things he got right.

I know you all probably will accuse him of being radical lefty, but paul krugman published this in the ny times yesterday and i thought he really hit the nail on the head:

December 14, 2009
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Disaster and Denial

By PAUL KRUGMAN
When I first began writing for The Times, I was naïve about many things. But my biggest misconception was this: I actually believed that influential people could be moved by evidence, that they would change their views if events completely refuted their beliefs.

And to be fair, it does happen now and then. I’ve been highly critical of Alan Greenspan over the years (since long before it was fashionable), but give the former Fed chairman credit: he has admitted that he was wrong about the ability of financial markets to police themselves.

But he’s a rare case. Just how rare was demonstrated by what happened last Friday in the House of Representatives, when — with the meltdown caused by a runaway financial system still fresh in our minds, and the mass unemployment that meltdown caused still very much in evidence — every single Republican and 27 Democrats voted against a quite modest effort to rein in Wall Street excesses.

Let’s recall how we got into our current mess.

America emerged from the Great Depression with a tightly regulated banking system. The regulations worked: the nation was spared major financial crises for almost four decades after World War II. But as the memory of the Depression faded, bankers began to chafe at the restrictions they faced. And politicians, increasingly under the influence of free-market ideology, showed a growing willingness to give bankers what they wanted.

The first big wave of deregulation took place under Ronald Reagan — and quickly led to disaster, in the form of the savings-and-loan crisis of the 1980s. Taxpayers ended up paying more than 2 percent of G.D.P., the equivalent of around $300 billion today, to clean up the mess.

But the proponents of deregulation were undaunted, and in the decade leading up to the current crisis politicians in both parties bought into the notion that New Deal-era restrictions on bankers were nothing but pointless red tape. In a memorable 2003 incident, top bank regulators staged a photo-op in which they used garden shears and a chainsaw to cut up stacks of paper representing regulations.

And the bankers — liberated both by legislation that removed traditional restrictions and by the hands-off attitude of regulators who didn’t believe in regulation — responded by dramatically loosening lending standards. The result was a credit boom and a monstrous real estate bubble, followed by the worst economic slump since the Great Depression. Ironically, the effort to contain the crisis required government intervention on a much larger scale than would have been needed to prevent the crisis in the first place: government rescues of troubled institutions, large-scale lending by the Federal Reserve to the private sector, and so on.

Given this history, you might have expected the emergence of a national consensus in favor of restoring more-effective financial regulation, so as to avoid a repeat performance. But you would have been wrong.

Talk to conservatives about the financial crisis and you enter an alternative, bizarro universe in which government bureaucrats, not greedy bankers, caused the meltdown. It’s a universe in which government-sponsored lending agencies triggered the crisis, even though private lenders actually made the vast majority of subprime loans. It’s a universe in which regulators coerced bankers into making loans to unqualified borrowers, even though only one of the top 25 subprime lenders was subject to the regulations in question.

Oh, and conservatives simply ignore the catastrophe in commercial real estate: in their universe the only bad loans were those made to poor people and members of minority groups, because bad loans to developers of shopping malls and office towers don’t fit the narrative.

In part, the prevalence of this narrative reflects the principle enunciated by Upton Sinclair: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” As Democrats have pointed out, three days before the House vote on banking reform Republican leaders met with more than 100 financial-industry lobbyists to coordinate strategies. But it also reflects the extent to which the modern Republican Party is committed to a bankrupt ideology, one that won’t let it face up to the reality of what happened to the U.S. economy.

So it’s up to the Democrats — and more specifically, since the House has passed its bill, it’s up to “centrist” Democrats in the Senate. Are they willing to learn something from the disaster that has overtaken the U.S. economy, and get behind financial reform?

Let’s hope so. For one thing is clear: if politicians refuse to learn from the history of the recent financial crisis, they will condemn all of us to repeat it.
 

jeffchr

Well-Known Member
If you show up at a hospital with no insurance see if they kick you out. Nobody is dying due to lack of health care. They are dying because they are stupid.

My cousins husband didn't have health insurance. He refused to go to the hospital. He died last week from the swine flu. Guess what though, they treated him for a broken leg a year ago. He knows they will help him.

His stupidity cost him his life.

fyi- he had advanced diabetes. Everyone else in the house had swine flu but was fine cause they went to the doctor.
you cannot maintain a program of preventative health care in an emergency room, as is evidenced by his death

"they are dying because they are stupid" - well, actually stupid is that immature, naive, ignorant, and repugnant statement
 

abe23

Active Member
I'm all ears, what did he clean up?

Please be sure what is Bushs mess and which is govt. mess.
The mess is the hands-off attitude toward financial regulation that led to the housing bubble and the subsequent near-meltdown of the economy. As for foreign policy, our destroyed international reputation and the iraq war that took our focus away from afghanistan, which together made it much harder for us to advance our interests internationally.

Both of those are in the process of being cleaned up....
 

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
Tisk, tisk indeed! How the hell did that happen.....oh yeah. :eyesmoke:

Seriously, you don't think that what the administration has been doing over the past year has done anything to prevent the financial system from collapsing? Last year, we were looking at chain reaction were the housing bubble collapsing would freeze up credit and send the whole economy into a tailspin, exactly as it happened in 1929. That's the reason everyone knew that the piece of shit TARP bill was necessary but still had to eat it because the alternative was just so much worse. Had john mccain won the election and gotten the economy where it is today, I would be giving him credit for that even if I didn't vote for the guy.

Too much of the criticism of obama is based on politics and ideology rather than pragmatism and what's good for the country. I criticized bush for a lot things when he was in office, but I did give him credit for the things he got right.

I know you all probably will accuse him of being radical lefty, but paul krugman published this in the ny times yesterday and i thought he really hit the nail on the head:

December 14, 2009
OP-ED COLUMNIST
Disaster and Denial

By PAUL KRUGMAN
When I first began writing for The Times, I was naïve about many things. But my biggest misconception was this: I actually believed that influential people could be moved by evidence, that they would change their views if events completely refuted their beliefs.

And to be fair, it does happen now and then. I’ve been highly critical of Alan Greenspan over the years (since long before it was fashionable), but give the former Fed chairman credit: he has admitted that he was wrong about the ability of financial markets to police themselves.

But he’s a rare case. Just how rare was demonstrated by what happened last Friday in the House of Representatives, when — with the meltdown caused by a runaway financial system still fresh in our minds, and the mass unemployment that meltdown caused still very much in evidence — every single Republican and 27 Democrats voted against a quite modest effort to rein in Wall Street excesses.

Let’s recall how we got into our current mess.

America emerged from the Great Depression with a tightly regulated banking system. The regulations worked: the nation was spared major financial crises for almost four decades after World War II. But as the memory of the Depression faded, bankers began to chafe at the restrictions they faced. And politicians, increasingly under the influence of free-market ideology, showed a growing willingness to give bankers what they wanted.

The first big wave of deregulation took place under Ronald Reagan — and quickly led to disaster, in the form of the savings-and-loan crisis of the 1980s. Taxpayers ended up paying more than 2 percent of G.D.P., the equivalent of around $300 billion today, to clean up the mess.

But the proponents of deregulation were undaunted, and in the decade leading up to the current crisis politicians in both parties bought into the notion that New Deal-era restrictions on bankers were nothing but pointless red tape. In a memorable 2003 incident, top bank regulators staged a photo-op in which they used garden shears and a chainsaw to cut up stacks of paper representing regulations.

And the bankers — liberated both by legislation that removed traditional restrictions and by the hands-off attitude of regulators who didn’t believe in regulation — responded by dramatically loosening lending standards. The result was a credit boom and a monstrous real estate bubble, followed by the worst economic slump since the Great Depression. Ironically, the effort to contain the crisis required government intervention on a much larger scale than would have been needed to prevent the crisis in the first place: government rescues of troubled institutions, large-scale lending by the Federal Reserve to the private sector, and so on.

Given this history, you might have expected the emergence of a national consensus in favor of restoring more-effective financial regulation, so as to avoid a repeat performance. But you would have been wrong.

Talk to conservatives about the financial crisis and you enter an alternative, bizarro universe in which government bureaucrats, not greedy bankers, caused the meltdown. It’s a universe in which government-sponsored lending agencies triggered the crisis, even though private lenders actually made the vast majority of subprime loans. It’s a universe in which regulators coerced bankers into making loans to unqualified borrowers, even though only one of the top 25 subprime lenders was subject to the regulations in question.

Oh, and conservatives simply ignore the catastrophe in commercial real estate: in their universe the only bad loans were those made to poor people and members of minority groups, because bad loans to developers of shopping malls and office towers don’t fit the narrative.

In part, the prevalence of this narrative reflects the principle enunciated by Upton Sinclair: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.” As Democrats have pointed out, three days before the House vote on banking reform Republican leaders met with more than 100 financial-industry lobbyists to coordinate strategies. But it also reflects the extent to which the modern Republican Party is committed to a bankrupt ideology, one that won’t let it face up to the reality of what happened to the U.S. economy.

So it’s up to the Democrats — and more specifically, since the House has passed its bill, it’s up to “centrist” Democrats in the Senate. Are they willing to learn something from the disaster that has overtaken the U.S. economy, and get behind financial reform?

Let’s hope so. For one thing is clear: if politicians refuse to learn from the history of the recent financial crisis, they will condemn all of us to repeat it.
I'm heavily involved in commercial banking. Specifically commercial lending. I'm not going to knock Obama or extend credit to him regarding TARP. He did what any other president would do and approximately 50% of the first bailout was allocated under the Bush Admin.

But he did get it done quickly as it should have been.

McCain...the worst candidate in the history of the Republican Party would have completely shit the bed on the economy.

Yes a bailout of some type needed to happen. Ok he gets some credit there. But presidents do not allocate funds, congress does. Somehow though McCain would have still fucked it up.

He's a mess.
 

Resin225

Active Member
The mess is the hands-off attitude toward financial regulation that led to the housing bubble and the subsequent near-meltdown of the economy. As for foreign policy, our destroyed international reputation and the iraq war that took our focus away from afghanistan, which together made it much harder for us to advance our interests internationally.

Both of those are in the process of being cleaned up....
The financial meltdown started with clinton, The admin. threatened lenders who would not give out loans to higher risk people. (I think the name for the program was, affordable housing?) granted neither party did shit, but the dems have to own that one, what does Barney Frank oversee Fanny and Freddie. Just a couple months before the meltdown, he assured us everything was fine with them, lol. Had either party shown ANY oversight to what the govt. does, no meltdown, well less thats for sure.
What interests do you speak of?
Please list.
Our reputation was made far WORSE by Obamas apologies. The rest of the world sees Obama as weak.
Oh and by the way congress has to vote to declare war. You should read up on who voted for it, Iraq was bad info believed by all. Bush is guilty of having a shitty/no exit strategy.
I think Bush left Afghanistan be (wrong imo) because he knew he couldn't win. Leave it for the next guy maybe.
 

abe23

Active Member
The financial meltdown started with clinton, The admin. threatened lenders who would not give out loans to higher risk people. (I think the name for the program was, affordable housing?) granted neither party did shit, but the dems have to own that one, what does Barney Frank oversee Fanny and Freddie. Just a couple months before the meltdown, he assured us everything was fine with them, lol. Had either party shown ANY oversight to what the govt. does, no meltdown, well less thats for sure.
What interests do you speak of?
Please list.
Our reputation was made far WORSE by Obamas apologies. The rest of the world sees Obama as weak.
Oh and by the way congress has to vote to declare war. You should read up on who voted for it, Iraq was bad info believed by all. Bush is guilty of having a shitty/no exit strategy.
I think Bush left Afghanistan be (wrong imo) because he knew he couldn't win. Leave it for the next guy maybe.

No. That whole line that congressional dems advocacy for affordable housing loans caused the whole mess is disingenuous at best. There wasn't a problem with fannie or freddie until the sub-prime mess caused housing prices to fall. The failure to regulate sub-prime lending and the trading in mortgage-backed securities is what caused this, not FHA programs. Get your facts straight.

I'll leave the foreign policy stuff for another time...
 

Resin225

Active Member
My facts are straight. Perfectly. The loan problems began there. Not many but you disputing that.
The trading the mortgage backed securities were needed to hide the shitty loans they gave out. You havent gone back far enough. The failure to regulate was lack of oversight after the fact.
 

DubsFan

Well-Known Member
My facts are straight. Perfectly. The loan problems began there. Not many but you disputing that.
The trading the mortgage backed securities were needed to hide the shitty loans they gave out. You havent gone back far enough. The failure to regulate was lack of oversight after the fact.
There are many things that caused the collapse in real estate. One is time. It always happens and it's nothing new. In fact 2008 was the worst year of fraud in lending.

Oversight does nothing. Supposedly Europe has a lot of this oversite. They still bought the paper and got hit worse and recovering at a slower pace. Oversite didn't help them.

FNMA probably needs to re evaluate their DU or Desktop Underwriting criteria. They too were lending in subprime scenarios. If your assets were strong had good equity your debt ration/DTI didn't matter so much. That is subprime.

Where residential lending has really screwed up is the whole secondary market. The packaging of loans in bulk and selling of paper at a premium really took off in the mid to late 90's. Traditional banking/lending truly died for a while.

Subprime loans were never sold on the secondary market. Ford Motor Credit used to lend residential paper for years. All subprime. But they serviced the tough paper they wrote. No selling unless it was to another company with a similar philosophy.

Commercial lending has a few things coming unglued right now but a bulk of it is the Wall St. CMBS (Commercial Mort Backed Sec) stuff. Traditional old school commercial lending is still doing pretty good.

When I have a client thats borrowing a huge chunk from a commercial bank, they need to deposit in cash 10% of the loan into that bank in a CD or some other instrument for the term of the loan. Plus the checking account for that 100 unit apartment management account is at that bank. The lender really get to keep an eye on them this way. This is traditional banking.

This is what's missing from residential lending. Common sense.

These lending conditions helps the bank meet some of the reserve requirments from the very loan they funded but it also puts them in a position every lender should have. The ability to (get this) actually see how the borrower manages their money with that checking account.

Rocket science. :shock:
 
H

hempcurescancer

Guest
Looks like a big fat FAIL across the board for Obama. Gosh, whoever would have predicted that? Last week there was only a six point difference between those who would rather have Obama in office and those who would rather have Bush back. By summer a majority of America will be admitting they would rather have Bush.

That will be the final, humiliating FAIL!
ur exactly right. and i cant wait.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
the only people who would rather have bush are delusional wacko's like yourself.

people who don't give a crap about anything except about keeping rich people rich, even at the cost of human life.

you are happy watching healthcare in the US cost almost 2x to 3x as much as in other countries, while not being nearly as effective.

you are happy with the US sinking deeper and deeper into a hole, and are too stubborn to tell when things are bad enough to do something about it because of your own self-centeredness.....

it's sad..........
 
H

hempcurescancer

Guest
the only people who would rather have bush are delusional wacko's like yourself.

people who don't give a crap about anything except about keeping rich people rich, even at the cost of human life.

you are happy watching healthcare in the US cost almost 2x to 3x as much as in other countries, while not being nearly as effective.

you are happy with the US sinking deeper and deeper into a hole, and are too stubborn to tell when things are bad enough to do something about it because of your own self-centeredness.....

it's sad..........
dude you gotta realize, i cant speak for everyone else but i dont want bush or obama, I want the federal reserve OUT OF MY FUCKIN COUNTRY. Obama is just a taller skinnier half black bush and do you know why?

because neither bush or obama make the decisions, they're just puppets so the real people in charge can make bullshit decisions, despite what the people want, and not have it come down on their heads.

why do you think obama promised to withdrawl the troops, and now were sending 30,000 more off? its not because of weapons of mass destruction or any of that bullshit, those are all scare tactics. the point of the whole thing is money. the rich can get richer, and fuck the citizens.

"A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men ... [W]e have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men." (quote from Woodrow Wilson)

............or maybe its all just a conspiracy theory.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
heh, I was reading in a London paper I subscribe to a little interview with a woman who was supplying the cars for the Copenhagen Conference.

How many limos have been committed?

1200 !

France just called for 42 more. We are now driving them in from Switzerland and Germany, we don't have enough.



How many hybrid cars have been committed to the conference?


5


Follow the actions and not the words..... :wink:
 

abe23

Active Member
There are many things that caused the collapse in real estate. One is time. It always happens and it's nothing new. In fact 2008 was the worst year of fraud in lending.

Oversight does nothing. Supposedly Europe has a lot of this oversite. They still bought the paper and got hit worse and recovering at a slower pace. Oversite didn't help them.

FNMA probably needs to re evaluate their DU or Desktop Underwriting criteria. They too were lending in subprime scenarios. If your assets were strong had good equity your debt ration/DTI didn't matter so much. That is subprime.

Where residential lending has really screwed up is the whole secondary market. The packaging of loans in bulk and selling of paper at a premium really took off in the mid to late 90's. Traditional banking/lending truly died for a while.

Subprime loans were never sold on the secondary market. Ford Motor Credit used to lend residential paper for years. All subprime. But they serviced the tough paper they wrote. No selling unless it was to another company with a similar philosophy.

Commercial lending has a few things coming unglued right now but a bulk of it is the Wall St. CMBS (Commercial Mort Backed Sec) stuff. Traditional old school commercial lending is still doing pretty good.

When I have a client thats borrowing a huge chunk from a commercial bank, they need to deposit in cash 10% of the loan into that bank in a CD or some other instrument for the term of the loan. Plus the checking account for that 100 unit apartment management account is at that bank. The lender really get to keep an eye on them this way. This is traditional banking.

This is what's missing from residential lending. Common sense.

These lending conditions helps the bank meet some of the reserve requirments from the very loan they funded but it also puts them in a position every lender should have. The ability to (get this) actually see how the borrower manages their money with that checking account.

Rocket science. :shock:
First off, thank you guys for keeping this discussion on track with descending into the usual red vs blue stupidity. It's nice to be able to disagree without being disagreeable....

I agree that president mccain would have been a disaster and we would probably be much worse off. It's hard to say at this point, but I'm wondering whether romney would have been a better choice even if he is a tough pill to swallow for the religious right, being a mormon and all. But that's politics....

Weren't the mortgages underwritten by fannie and freddie, prime loans by definition? And I don't have any numbers to back this up, but my understanding was that there was very little delinquency and foreclosure with the loans underwritten by them before the bubble burst and that the problem came from loans by the unregulated sub-prime lenders that were bundled into what became the toxic assets that fucked up everyone's 401(k).

Don't you think regulation and more oversight of residential lending could have made up for the lack of common sense? There were obviously a lot of irresponsible practices going on the last 5-8 years....how do you prevent that without regulation? The fed with it's ridiculously low interest rates probably played a role too. I know very little about banking other than what I read in the newspaper, but I'm curious to hear what you think would have been the best way to avoid this whole mess. If I can give you a loan, then sell that loan to someone else and absolve myself of any risk associated with it, doesn't that encourage irresponsible lending?

And resin225, those aren't facts but political talking points. Again, fannie and freddie were self-sufficient, didn't cost the taxpayer a dime and the loans got payed back throughout the 1990s. The crisis was caused by irresponsible practices in the financial sector and a laissez-faire attitude on the part of the regulators, not by poor people getting advantageous housing loans and paying them back. Those are the facts and not many dispute them...
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
heh, I was reading in a London paper I subscribe to a little interview with a woman who was supplying the cars for the Copenhagen Conference.

How many limos have been committed?

1200 !

France just called for 42 more. We are now driving them in from Switzerland and Germany, we don't have enough.



How many hybrid cars have been committed to the conference?


5


Follow the actions and not the words..... :wink:
world leaders like to be chauffered around in secured vehicles. bullet-proof windows, armor-plated doors, things of that nature...

how many hybrid models for these types of cars are available?? 0

keep trying ....
 
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