Oaksterdam t-5 veg 600w hps flower

d.c. beard · Dec 15, 2009

theloadeddragon said:
Sorry buddy, your just plain wrong..... I have 3 400W MH running in a 10x10 room pretty much side by side (as well as a 3 1/2 x 4 T5 CFL panel). Im not exhausting AT ALL, no heat problems at all, nope .... Indeed, the T5's are throwing off more heat than the 400W MH simply because less airflow is allowed around the bulb. The room is well insulated, double insulated actually....

I tested my 400W MH's... they each pull respectively 389-413 watts, steady 3.7 amps......

I am running T5's and CFL's side by side with the MH's using different T5 horticultural Brand bulbs (each to their own section) as well as different MH brands (different bulb, ballast, hood, respectively)...... once a plant passes 2 weeks or so in veg, it responds Twice as well to MH as the T5's and other fluorescent bulbs..... Even different strains at different distances from the bulbs, they ALL respond better to the MH, and the root systems too.....

Im not going to argue about any of these points....... the evidence is easily placed in pictures all over this site and the rest of the net, the info is out there easy enough to find, to each their own is fine.... I would be the last to bag on anyone for vegging under fluoros...... but the first to strait up bluntly tell a person they are wrong, having empirical data and other evidence to back up my claims

What's just plain wrong is the way that this guy starts a post.

Someguy15 said:
A 10x10 room is a whole diff ball game then a 2'x4' closet. Even with the doors wide open, I was at 85+ deg. It took venting the heat out of the space to drop it to 76-80 which is where I'm at now.

All I'm saying is, if your cramming something into a tight space, you shouldn't just ignore heat output, it does matter.

Exactly SomeGuy, which was the main point I was trying to make. That and the fact that it is cheaper to run T5's and ALMOST as good as MH. I have both as well. T5's take up a lot less space, produce a lot less heat, require a lot less ventilation, make a lot less noise, and they also cost less initially and over the long-run. In a tent, you don't want to veg under HIDs if you even have to think about heat. And like I said earlier, sometimes it's nice not to have your vegging babies growing at lightspeed. Thanks for the back!

Ultimately there are pros and cons to each side, Drella just needs to understand the full scope of both sides so an informed decision can be made. Like I said, if you plan on running perpetually and want the fastest growth possible yeah maybe you should go with the MH. Otherwise, I would SUGGEST the T5's but that's up to Drella. ;-)

jeb5304 · Dec 16, 2009

Drella said:
Rydub! great to see you here, sunshine 4 mix, comes in a huge bale! super cheap, and lots of perilite in it, real good water filtering. the only thing i add is my nutes, Botanicare Pro Grow for veg- it has fish meal, composted seabird guano, kelp, amino acid, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, and calcium carbonate, 3-2-4. real good nute for beginners because everthing is in it. i also like that i control the amount of nutes, thirdly four bags of FFOF would have been like $100, the whole bale was like $40, with a lot left over!

im pullin up a seat. nice strains drella.
im trying out the sunshine #4 I JUST PICKED UP TO 2 LOOSFILL BAGS 2.8CF for 17$ a bag 4cf of course perilite 12$ and 50lbs. dolimite lime $5. i was gonna go 2 ff OF mixed with a 1 happyfrog soil and the perilite an lime and but that woulda cost me 80$. then if i went ff might as well all organic. so more nutes. 50$ for the trio. i might do that in future but i want to see how this works out ive heard its great stuff. im using technafloras whole line that was int the success kit, had great results. im gonna mix it 2:1 sunshine/perilite with a lil dolomite in the mix. should be enuff for all my plants with some left over.

BooMeR242 · Dec 16, 2009

i think ull be happy with the sunshine as well but this is my first round using it too. the FFOF worked but its better to have total control over ur soil once u understand NPK ratio and micro nutes etc.

chrisg420 · Dec 17, 2009

yeah i cant wait to see these buggers get bigger :-)

mine are startin to fill in nicely. its pretty amazing watching them

Drella · Dec 17, 2009

Hey guys, how's it going out there? great i hope. Ladies bounce back from fimm. Dropped the light to 12", thanks LD, noticing some rapid growth, minimal stretching on the master bush, Hindu Kush.

Drella · Dec 17, 2009

jeb5304 said:
im pullin up a seat. nice strains drella.
im trying out the sunshine #4 I JUST PICKED UP TO 2 LOOSFILL BAGS 2.8CF for 17$ a bag 4cf of course perilite 12$ and 50lbs. dolimite lime $5. i was gonna go 2 ff OF mixed with a 1 happyfrog soil and the perilite an lime and but that woulda cost me 80$. then if i went ff might as well all organic. so more nutes. 50$ for the trio. i might do that in future but i want to see how this works out ive heard its great stuff. im using technafloras whole line that was int the success kit, had great results. im gonna mix it 2:1 sunshine/perilite with a lil dolomite in the mix. should be enuff for all my plants with some left over.

great to have you here jeb, thanks for the support. let's see the sunshine mix, shine!

Drella · Dec 17, 2009

d.c. beard said:
Hey Drella, just stopping by to check out your grow.

Consider this...I have (2) two foot 8-bulb T5 units that I can run one at a time or both at once. Side by side, this allows me to have 'levels' inside my veg tent with taller plants/strains on one side and shorter ones on the other. This is very handy.

But my main point is this - let's round up and say that I'm using both T5 units at the same time. Each bulb uses 24 watts, each 8-bulb fixture uses 192 watts, and the two together use 384 watts. So we'll say the T5's pull about 390w all together since their ballasts are tiny and don't run high current (meaning, they pull what they're rated at). All you need to supplement this is one little extraction fan since heat is no issue with T5's. This is my setup which keeps the electric bill down. I don't have heat issues, and the plants grow like crazy under them. I have a MH bulb that I never use now because the T5's work well enough alone.

Now say you did start using a 400w MH for veg. A 400w MH actually pulls between 430 and 470 watts depending on the ballast design, bulb used, and manufacturer. Then you also need beefier fans for ventilation, and a solid plan for heat extraction. You can never run at half-speed so to say, and you can't really have levels either. You create more of a heat signature as well.

So to use round figures if your inline extraction fan is 100 watts and you can get away with only one fan using a 400w MH, then you're looking at 530 - 570 watts consumption on the Metal Halide. That number is static.

If you go with the T5's then you're looking at 390 + 100 = 490 watts if you're running both at full capacity. if you cut one off and just use one of the T5 units you'll be at 295 watts and theoretically you could pull out a few individual bulbs and run at even less if you wanted.

Add to that the fact that all the parts cost a lot less for the T5's and I think you have a good case for maybe choosing the T5's over another HID. Also, unless you plan on growing perpetually you don't always want your clones growing as fast as possible for 2 months before you put them into flower. I find them getting too big sometimes just under the T5's!

Here's a pic of my setup (best one I could find that shows the T5's):

thanks for the help and added support, dc! i've admire ur two t5 fixtures for some time, very smart. if ur like us, growing more than one strain, it's the only way to go. i can unlevel my fixture, but not as affective as urs.

Drella · Dec 18, 2009

theloadeddragon said:
Sorry buddy, your just plain wrong..... I have 3 400W MH running in a 10x10 room pretty much side by side (as well as a 3 1/2 x 4 T5 CFL panel). Im not exhausting AT ALL, no heat problems at all, nope .... Indeed, the T5's are throwing off more heat than the 400W MH simply because less airflow is allowed around the bulb. The room is well insulated, double insulated actually....

I tested my 400W MH's... they each pull respectively 389-413 watts, steady 3.7 amps......

I am running T5's and CFL's side by side with the MH's using different T5 horticultural Brand bulbs (each to their own section) as well as different MH brands (different bulb, ballast, hood, respectively)...... once a plant passes 2 weeks or so in veg, it responds Twice as well to MH as the T5's and other fluorescent bulbs..... Even different strains at different distances from the bulbs, they ALL respond better to the MH, and the root systems too.....

Im not going to argue about any of these points....... the evidence is easily placed in pictures all over this site and the rest of the net, the info is out there easy enough to find, to each their own is fine.... I would be the last to bag on anyone for vegging under fluoros...... but the first to strait up bluntly tell a person they are wrong, having empirical data and other evidence to back up my claims

i appreciate the feedback. i will say that after clones get their first dense growth, a metal halid would be adventageous for the continued dense growth. an experiment will be in order in the future. i never meant to start a MH/T5 fight, but some interesting points were brought up. all i know when i first started my friends advice was to get some 150wcfl's, boy am i glad i grabbed the t5's (thanks hydro store guy, you've been like yoda to me!)

Drella · Dec 18, 2009

BooMeR242 said:
i think ull be happy with the sunshine as well but this is my first round using it too. the FFOF worked but its better to have total control over ur soil once u understand NPK ratio and micro nutes etc.

this is true, it's also so fun using a new medium, that's soil less!

d.c. beard · Dec 18, 2009

Plants are looking good Drella! I would maybe try putting the light at about 4" above the canopy if those are your T5's, I find that less of a distance is better for T5's. When you stick em under the 600w keep the lamp about 18" away and you should have good light penetration that way.

You might not need dolomite lime for Sunshine Mix, but let me tell ya for soil it's a godsend. Really helped keep my soil in check. The ratio is 1 cup of lime for every cubic foot of soil, FYI. I use it with my Happy Frog now, which BTW Happy Frog is way cheaper than Ocean Forest and I think it's better. Throw in just a little extra sprinkle of FF chunky perlite and you're in business!

Drella · Dec 18, 2009

d.c. beard said:
Plants are looking good Drella! I would maybe try putting the light at about 4" above the canopy if those are your T5's, I find that less of a distance is better for T5's. When you stick em under the 600w keep the lamp about 18" away and you should have good light penetration that way.

You might not need dolomite lime for Sunshine Mix, but let me tell ya for soil it's a godsend. Really helped keep my soil in check. The ratio is 1 cup of lime for every cubic foot of soil, FYI. I use it with my Happy Frog now, which BTW Happy Frog is way cheaper than Ocean Forest and I think it's better. Throw in just a little extra sprinkle of FF chunky perlite and you're in business!

yeah, i feel after the initial stretch after you transplant clones, they require deeper penetrating light. i've taken some new advice this time around, and it's exciting. within a week, if i notice way more stretching, then i'll move the light closer. just kinda experimenting right now, i have lees to lose. recently i got my job back, so not as stressed anymore. now for the "fun" part in growing!

good advice with the dolomite, but so far with this grow, i don't know if i'll ever grow in soil again. this grow is cool because i do have two in ffof soiled pots. one strain, two clones, are in two different kinds of medium. it'll be interesting to see the yield difference if any. thanks DC!

d.c. beard · Dec 19, 2009

That's cool, it'll be interesting to see which clone performs better. Just try to keep all the other variables the same and note the differences along the way. Now you've got an experiment on the side too!

Rydub · Dec 19, 2009

Hey bro was up! I usually keep my t5's 2 to 4 inches above the plants to keep strech down and to maximize photosynthisis . The t5's can be a millimeter away with out burn but the second a leave touches the bulb itself it will roast it. So you have to make sure to take in to account the leave movment (when the leafs stand vertical trying to gather light). But get the bulbs as close as you can.

Also are you still useing 24 hour light? I have noticed that i get alot of growth during the night time hours and it also keeps the plants healthier in my opinion. Plants are like any other thing that is alive they need time to rest. The healthier your plants are going into flower the more bud the will produce.

Things are looking good bro keep it up. :joint:

Drella · Dec 19, 2009

d.c. beard said:
That's cool, it'll be interesting to see which clone performs better. Just try to keep all the other variables the same and note the differences along the way. Now you've got an experiment on the side too!

yeah im totally interested to see their differences! they all look totally different right now! interesting side note, ive noticed tiny white dots, that when you magnify still look like white dots. i was scared they were spider mites. but when you rub them they come off. just noticed yesterday my fingers smelled ridiculously danky after i did this. i think it was trichs on the plant. they were revegged from flower, or cut when in flower. but new growth is showing new trichs, funny. gonna keep an eye on her for sure!

Drella · Dec 19, 2009

Rydub said:
Hey bro was up! I usually keep my t5's 2 to 4 inches above the plants to keep strech down and to maximize photosynthisis . The t5's can be a millimeter away with out burn but the second a leave touches the bulb itself it will roast it. So you have to make sure to take in to account the leave movment (when the leafs stand vertical trying to gather light). But get the bulbs as close as you can.

Also are you still useing 24 hour light? I have noticed that i get alot of growth during the night time hours and it also keeps the plants healthier in my opinion. Plants are like any other thing that is alive they need time to rest. The healthier your plants are going into flower the more bud the will produce.

Things are looking good bro keep it up.

yeah dude this new 24/0 veg ive been using is crazy. the leaves never droop before sleep, because they never sleep. im constantly seeing new growth. but in retrospec, i don't see the ridiculous difference. meaning, last time i used 16/8, and this time i don't see the extra 8hrs of growth every day. don't get me wrong, they're growing, but not crazily. i like you're theory on how they need to rest, but is it too late to throw them in 16/8? i was just so scared that i stressed my plants out the first time around, so i didn't want to give them any dark this time. i will say that there is no stress evident in this grow. and i know i have seen people use 24/0. i gues what im saying is if i knew for sure that 24/0 would give me way less yield, or less quality, then i would change back.

Rydub · Dec 19, 2009

Drella said:
yeah dude this new 24/0 veg ive been using is crazy. the leaves never droop before sleep, because they never sleep. im constantly seeing new growth. but in retrospec, i don't see the ridiculous difference. meaning, last time i used 16/8, and this time i don't see the extra 8hrs of growth every day. don't get me wrong, they're growing, but not crazily. i like you're theory on how they need to rest, but is it too late to throw them in 16/8? i was just so scared that i stressed my plants out the first time around, so i didn't want to give them any dark this time. i will say that there is no stress evident in this grow. and i know i have seen people use 24/0. i gues what im saying is if i knew for sure that 24/0 would give me way less yield, or less quality, then i would change back.

i wouldnt worry about stressing them out while you are in veg you can recover from just about anything while there still vegging. Its only in flowering when you only have one good shot at it. I use 18/6 in veg but you can go 20/4 or 24 like your useing. Im interested to see how the the 24 hour light works out. my therory is probally wrong about resting. Ive seen other people do it also with no apparent side affects. i say keep with it and see what happens. I bet they will be just fine. :joint:

BooMeR242 · Dec 20, 2009

16/8? idk if u wanna do that bro. anything under 18 is pushin chancin flower. 16 mite b ok but 14 def would push to flower.
i run my T5s on 24/7 when i take clones and when i transplant my clones. i like to push them fast cu zi hate waiting to veg. in theory plants need "rest" and roots supposedly grow faster durin the nite cycle. i cant really tell u wats best but sum perfer to veg when using HID lamps to save money on elect and bulbs last a lil longer. but id rather crop out a few days earlier in a total 3month cycle if it means havin the light on longer. just my opinion.

Shrubs First · Dec 20, 2009

What do you mean leaves never droop before sleep?

They shouldn't be drooping at anytime, something
must be happening in order to cause this...

A 24/0 schedule can be utilized, but it definitely
doesn't cut your chances on hermieing, it is
much more stressful for a plant under the 24/0.

With this schedule the plant is unable to perform
its very important task of cellular respiration, which only
happens in the dark period. This is when the plant converts
all of it's biochemical energy it has produced throughout the
day in to Adenosine Triphosphate or ATP, a crucial role in
photosynthesis.

I'm not going to tell you, you must change to 18/6 because
people are successful with 24/0, but it definitely does not
make better flowering results.

Maybe the temps drop rapidly and and quite a bit, and/or your
humidity jumps during the off cycle causing this droop in your plant.

But it isn't the darkness itself.

Drella · Dec 20, 2009

Rydub said:
i wouldnt worry about stressing them out while you are in veg you can recover from just about anything while there still vegging. Its only in flowering when you only have one good shot at it. I use 18/6 in veg but you can go 20/4 or 24 like your useing. Im interested to see how the the 24 hour light works out. my therory is probally wrong about resting. Ive seen other people do it also with no apparent side affects. i say keep with it and see what happens. I bet they will be just fine.

you're right man, i did 18/6 last time, and it worked out great. im so paranoid this time around, so im gonna 24/0 the whole veg. i feel once i 12/12 em they'll immediately start flower! also there will be 4 different strains. i don't know about you guys, but im super excited to see their differences!

Drella · Dec 20, 2009

BooMeR242 said:
16/8? idk if u wanna do that bro. anything under 18 is pushin chancin flower. 16 mite b ok but 14 def would push to flower.
i run my T5s on 24/7 when i take clones and when i transplant my clones. i like to push them fast cu zi hate waiting to veg. in theory plants need "rest" and roots supposedly grow faster durin the nite cycle. i cant really tell u wats best but sum perfer to veg when using HID lamps to save money on elect and bulbs last a lil longer. but id rather crop out a few days earlier in a total 3month cycle if it means havin the light on longer. just my opinion.

fuck man, i was probably stoned when i wrote that, i meant 18/6. but for now i'm with the 24/0, i wanna see how they turn out with 24/0 the entire veg.

Oaksterdam t-5 veg 600w hps flower

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