Nutrient Lockout - Do the symptoms ever reverse?

I had nutrient lockout on my first grow in 3 of my girls, being my first outdoor grow i assumed that the plants were were requiring more nutrients because they were so big.. So i made the mistake of adding more nutrients. When i saw the plants were still yellowing from the bottom up, i flushed and managed to stabilize the plants and on one of the plants i trimmed off the yellowing and it looks nice and dark green. The problem is that on the other two plants i left the yellow leafs to see if the symptoms would reverse. The problem with yellowing isn't spreading any further, but at the same time the yellow leafs aren't returning to there original state - nice and green.

So my questions are :

1) Will these leafs ever turn green again, if so how can i help them do this?
2) Should i trim off these yellow leafs or just leave them? I was always under the impression they should be left until the plant doesn't need them anymore, at which point she will drop them.

I'm growing in pot and soil, outdoor and using all organic nutrients. All help will be very much appreciated.

Many Thanks

pics? might need more nutrients but only n. I had the same thing with one of mine I gave more and it didnt do much. So I got a organic 8-0-0 using a Tb spoon full to help. What size pots and what brand of soil and nuits ?

well after looking at your pics buy n use it. bottom up def. top down burn and lock out. when i started to bud I cut my n back to far. mircal gro organic 8-0-0 i started with a t spoon then 2 today Tb spoon = maybe 5ml to a litter.

^ about your sig, are you talking about smokeless powder?

I don't like to trim leaves off completely. If they come off with a tug, they are done, otherwise, they stay. I torched a plant with a similar situation you have, but I carefully cut out the necrotic parts, leaving as much of the leaf as possible.

I have 2 week old girls in the veggie state using the deep water culture hydro set-up. My nutirent level started at 500ppm and I notice very slow growth and the yellowing/limey color to the bottom leaves and as well as working its way up to the top leaves. PH is consistent between 5.7 and 6.0. Try to maintain 5.8. I increased the nutes to 1300ppm. Using Cutting Edge Solution nutes. Am I on the right track, and how long does it take for the green color to return, or will I notice it in the new growth? Thanks "The King of Sting"

Hi guys, thanks for your help.
So Darth Dank, do you think its an N deficiency? I was hesitant to add too much Nitrogen back into the mix as i read somewhere that too much Nitrogen inhibits bud growth? I cant exactly remember the brand of Soil I'm using, but it is a hoarse manure compost that i had quite a bit of luck with in the past. As for the pot sizes they are ~15-20 liters i believe. I have some more pictures if this will help? So did you just dilute this 8-0-0 mix and water it into the soil, or was it a dressing you just put on the surface and water in? Ill just get something similar to this and use it on my soil until i see a difference in the colouring - do you know how long it usually takes for the difference to be seen? I don't want to get too carried away.

Thanks for you help man.

Thanks Prodigal Sun, this has put my mind at rest. Ive been doing something similar on the other plants that didnt get trimmed and youve put my mind at ease. Do you think this lockout will affect my yield at all? I know stress will affect yield, but is this a large amount of stress for the plants.. Thanks for you help

Yes, it will affect the yield, but live and learn, and keep going. It might affect it a little, maybe a lot, depends. Pics would help, but it seems like you caught it early.

Hi Prodigal, this is one of the most recent images i have. The yellowing at the top is just because of the sun shining on the top half - they actually look the greenest towards the top of the plants. What concerns me is the yellowing at the bottom and the general light-green colouring throughout the plants. The one at the front of this image is the most affected one. It started showing the signs the earliest and seems the be hit the hardest. Its hard to see from the picture the extent they are effected, but from about half way down the plant the leafs which aren't new growth at the end of the branches are pretty much all a lime-green colour. Like you said, i think i caught it early but i'm just concerned that the persistent yellowing means it is still hungry, then again i don't want to fry her again. Would you recommend hitting her with some more N to try and get her to darken out, or will this again inhibit bud growth? Thanks again

To answer your original question.

#1: In the existing growth,,,No...Any damage done to a plant will remain that way. Brown,necrotized and yellowing leaves will remain that way after the correction/adjustment.

BUT,,all new growth WILL show the correction/adjustment! In soil this will take around 7 or more days to show it's self. In hydro around 3 days.

#2: As the leaves degrade it would be prudent to remove them. Any advanced damaged leaves are doing no good to the plant as far as it's growth, and these can ,, and do at times increase the risk of molds and fungus attacks! so remove them.

Now then, after viewing your pic in the last post. I might be inclined to say that the plant is getting too much P & K.....that will cause the plant to do exactly as in the picture,,in late veg and early flower it will "fool" the plant into thinking that it's later in flower then it is. It will use the nutrients stored in the plant in an attempt to finish faster.
Increasing N will not help in this situation.

Here is a BASELINE nutrient # set for soil
In a good amended premix. your feed concentrations should be around N = 2.8 P = 2.2 K = 3.1 for Veg... and in flower N = 3.4 P = 2.6 K = 3.4 At 3 weeks into flower up it to N = 3.4 P = 9.8 K = 8.4.

You can add a High P&K like MOAB from mad farmer durring the last 2 weeks. If it doesn't increase your bud size, It will make them more dense and Hard.

Hope that helps and good Luck!

Hi Dr Who. ,

Thanks for your informative reply. Its a great help and I've learnt a lot. You have also put my mind at ease in terms of the yellowing not correcting itself. The new growth does look nice and dark, without any signs of burns or yellowing - so i will follow your advice and not feed them anymore N and also try to cut down on P and K while removing the damaged leaves.
In terms of the overdose of P and K, is this such a bad thing? I know the plants crave P+K in there flowering cycles and as long as i am not losing too much of the large leaves will this actually help the yield etc? Or would you recommend a flush and try to reduce the amounts in the soil? Because if the plant is rushing to finish faster, will this mean increased yields by the time they are actually finished?

Many Thanks

happy leafs happy plant happy buds. my leafs heal, not all the way but some. they were light green now there getting darker. I found my sativa need more n then my indica. for the first few weeks.

Zady said:

Hi Dr Who. ,

Thanks for your informative reply. Its a great help and I've learnt a lot. You have also put my mind at ease in terms of the yellowing not correcting itself. The new growth does look nice and dark, without any signs of burns or yellowing - so i will follow your advice and not feed them anymore N and also try to cut down on P and K while removing the damaged leaves.
In terms of the overdose of P and K, is this such a bad thing? I know the plants crave P+K in there flowering cycles and as long as i am not losing too much of the large leaves will this actually help the yield etc? Or would you recommend a flush and try to reduce the amounts in the soil? Because if the plant is rushing to finish faster, will this mean increased yields by the time they are actually finished?

Many Thanks

Click to expand...

And thank you for the pat on the back.

Hmm, flush? No,,,don't flush....I would say find a nice micro tea and feed it that for a cpl of days then resume your regular feeding.
I see that I was doing an edit to my post adding a good nutrient baseline info thing, when you posted this. Read that as it will be helpful in later grows.
As to increase in yields due to the speed up? No, maybe even a little less, but it will still be in the average range for the breed...

Hey Dank
Some sativa's do feed heavy and many can be quite fussy and require less and all are light hogs that should be grown with high lumin counts to bring out the optimum yield potential.
And yes sometimes while a leaf stucture is just reacting to a nute def. It can do some recovery,,,But brown and necrotized leaves will never "recover".

Dr Who,

Thanks again for your help, I've added your nutrient baseline information to my grow 'bible' and ill be following that closely next time around, i will also make sure to follow your advice towards the end of flowering also to try and get some heavier buds.
Im glad you advised against the flush, as i have only just balanced the soil out again after my last over-nute when i had to flush. It sounds like my girls may be fairly stunted when it comes to yield due to my lockout and then overdose of P+K, but l have learnt my lesson when it comes to nutrient abuse - sometimes less it more! Lets just hope they aren't too grumpy with me.

And thanks Dank for your input also, the leaves which aren't too far gone are staying for now and i hope after everyones advice i can start to see my girls turn around. It is interesting what you said about the sativas being more N hungry, i believe i read something about this in Robert Connell Clarkes Cannabis Botany book. From what i read the Indicas seemed to be a little more forgiving, which is why i chose mainly Indica strains for this outdoor grow. I actually forced a Deep Mellow Mango into becoming a Hermie and bread it with Shiva Shanti, Ganesh Passion/Spirit, Origional Amnesia and a strain which my friend collected seeds from off a mountain side in India. This gave me feminized seeds which i am attempting to grow outdoor and organically - im learning so much more about the plant by doing it like this, so thanks for you help.

Im just in the process of upload all my grow pictures for this grow to an album on my profile, so if you guys are interested/have any more advice feel free to have a look.

Thanks again guys,

Peace

What Who said...hehehe

from what I can see in the pic, if you really must grow sideways, this might be of some use to you. https://www.google.com/search?q=grow+wheel&client=firefox-a&hs=iw1&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=sygIUrfLG5Pg2wW9vYHoCw&ved=0CC8QsAQ&biw=990&bih=663