Nutrient Burn..? Lots of Pictures

My plants look overall very healthy - but today I noticed a handfull of leaves that looked like they had nutrient burn. I suspected I over fertilized a few waterings back and adjusted nutrients for the next couple feedings to account for this. I even flushed yesterday before these leaf signs started to really show. If this is nutrient burn as I suspect, should I do another flush? Should I continue with watering/feeding as normal (assuming I already resolved the problem, and these leaves will die off no matter what, that this is just running its course)? I understand leaves die off even on healthy plants (especially lower leaves). I am the worrisome type though and having a second opinion never hurts!

I do not really suspect calcium deficiency because all of the new growth looks great.

The burn marks also started appearing right after I did a spray with Neem oil. I have never experienced any burn when I have used Neem oil in the past. I use an LED light and spray 5-10 minutes before lights out.

Some pictures of the plants...



There is also a link to my Grow Journal in my signature. My journal is extremely detailed, including all information for all waterings/feedings, treatments, etc. - with tons of pictures. Thanks in advance for the help, everyone!

More pictures. Starting to actually suspect calcium deficiency now, as some newer growth appears to be affected.



Going to use Fox Farm Sledgehammer tonight and do a heavy flush - then possibly hit the store tomorrow and grab some CalMag. Any suggestions?

Hey GiantSteps,
I think you are on the rite road to recovery.Your affected leaves are curling under,a sign of over nute
and are overall dark green,a sign of too much N,which locks out Ca and K.
You have already flushed once so you should be ok there without another flush.
Water when pots dry out a bit with 1/2 strength normal feed,plus cal/mag.

Just my opinion GiantSteps,you should be back on track in a week or so.
Nice grow by the way,Looking good,well done.

Thanks, robro! I actually flushed again today - a few hours ago. With just water and 2 tsp/gallon of Fox Farm Sledgehammer. Will the calmag really be necessary? I am using Fox Farm nutrients - Big Bloom, Grow Big (did not use it at all this week), Tiger Bloom, Open Sesame... Would these provide enough calcium? Also, since the lockout should be solved, won't they begin to take up nutrients normally again? I am guessing calmag would just give them the little boost they need to heal up..?

I am going to be making a trip to the hydro store first thing in the morning already - I guess I will pick up a small bottle of calmag while I am there.

Thanks again for the feedback!

Im not familiar with Fox Farm nutes,but you are probably rite about there being enough Ca in them.
My thinking was if theyve had a deficiency,they can use a bit more,just like us.On the cal/mag that is.
A bottle of cal/mag is handy.
There will always be some strains that need more Ca and Mg than is in your regular nutes.
Im no expert GS,just trying to help a fellow grower.
Good luck with your grow,i will check in now and again to see how your getting on.

Oh trust me robro, I am far from an expert myself! Your help is greatly appreciated. Sounds like we are on the same page with the calmag. I will try and pick up a small bottle tomorrow. Just that I am already going to be dropping some cash on a handfull of other items and money is really tight right now. I am the type that will make as many sacrifices as I can to ensure these plants are grown to their (and mine for that matter) full potential.

I plan on resuming regular feeding next watering - except half the concentration. Temperature has been higher lately, and humidity lower - so I have had to water more often. Since the same concentration of nutrients is being consumed but faster, it caused the over fert problems (my conclusion). I have been watering with 8 gallons each watering - I will use the same nutrient amounts, but with 16 gallons - and then go from there. That way, the plants are still getting the nutrients (but not too much) and are getting the water they need to avoid having to water every day. Seems like a gallon of water is keeping them satisfied for 2-2.5 days. They are 6.4 gallon pots so a gallon seems perfectly reasonable. I do not know how I was getting away with a half gallon before, only watering every 3-3.5 days.

Im pretty new to this myself but it looks like it might be a P def... Could be locked out by ph or other nutrients.
Also it could be too much water, let them dry out good before watering again.
Check out this diagram, I use it to try to diagnose my issues.

It takes 3-4 days in dirt to notice any changes after feeding and watering so just leave it for now to dry out.

View attachment 2792713

I PH my water to 6.5. When I flushed today, I checked the runoff and it was 6.5. I think what happened was with the high heat, the soil was drying out much quicker - they were taking in the same amount of nutrients but much quicker - and the soil being dry raised the concentration of the salts in the soil. Not sure though.

i have been looking over your gal as asked, look up phosphorus deficiency. i have never had it but it looks to me what you may have.

obv you used neem because you had bugs? if so it maybe that the bugs have passed a fungus on.

IT DOESNT LOOK LIKE BURN AT ALL

which leafs is this effecting ??

Hmm it actually could be phosphorous toxicity, as opposed to deficiency. I was using Open Sesame, by Fox Farm with an NPK of 5-45-19.

I did not have any bugs - just using Neem as a preventative measure.

Initially, it seemed only lower leaves were affected, but now it seems there are some upper leaves affected.

First off you are doing a wonderful job. I love your set up. I always have trouble myself with soils like FFOF, Roots Organics, etc. They are top quality soil mixes and the problem I have is me. I always forget that these are loaded up with things and I still continue to pour teas or what not into them. You should see the mess I have created for myself with my RO water's ph too.

I feel that you have you have a few problems going on. One is overfeeding. I know what FF is telling you on their schedule. I know people who make it through a complete flowering cycle with ease adding nothing to it but water. I think the amount of nutes you are using has caught up to you. You may be putting in too many carbs with so much Sweet Raw. The Grow Big you are using plus the mollasses plus the crushed shells in the mix far exceeds the Mg you need. I feel this pretty much for most of what you are adding. I can't comment on the use of neem or the volume you are using. If this was me I would water with your 6.5 water and nothing else. I don't flush my containers and I know you have recently. I would just water them pretty good, get some run off and keep moving forward. What are your thoughts on this?

ok looking through your diary you are having problems with high humidity, i wouldnt bother using neem as a preventative next time, your tent should stop most bugs and i hope your not using it till the end of flower, spraying buds causes mold.

i also see because you are using LED's you have left out a vent system, and it looks like you are going for a closed loop system with your own co2 etc.

when using hps lights room temp is kept at 72 during flower BECAUSE this keeps the plant canopy at around 80-85 when using LED lights you do not have the heat to extract instead you MUST keep your hole room at 80-85 (see link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJIjJ5nZUZw

if its not that one were he disscuses temps watch the other one or 2.

this is why you noticed better grow with the doors and window shut.



i take back what i said earlier about it being a p diff, now i know more im sure this issue is because of your humidity now your in flowering, you need an extractor fan to suck the humid air out, that will solve your problem i belive. you need to hurry if its so humid its rotting your leafs your bud stands no chance!

also imo PH is a hydro thing only, soil holds onto nutes like a sponge, flushing with plain water will only leech a very small amount of the nutes out. i have no idea why testing the ph of the run off will tell anyone anything.

in soil the soil acts as a buffer, this means when i water it with 8.9 ph nute mix, the soil then sorts it out and WILL buffer it (not to "A" right number.) but what the plant needs it to be.

rain does not ph itself.

everyone tries to overcomplicate soil, for indoors it really is set and forget pretty much. i have some plants outside that i have only ever feed with (ph 8.9) tap water there super healthy and the soil came from my mates back garden that aint been touched in the last 50years.

my point is your too much of a finickey grower for soil mate. you clearly like to be very detailed in your approach to growing, this is your greatest strength and weakness, you are wanting to be so involved with every detail, because of this imo you are over complicating a simple soil grow.

because of the above reason i suggest you look into hydro maybe (dwc) or aeroponics or even an ebb n flow tray for your next grow. in hydro you have to know every detail, you have to constantly make sure your nutes and ph is in the sweet spot, 2 days of a neglected DWC bucket can be the end of that grow because everything is so much faster and hands on!!

hope this helps mate!

p.s im not knocking you at all just providing my view from reading your diary mate!

any more probs hit me up again man! n make sure you do when them colas are in i got smelo vision an wana smell that haze burning up my nostrils

fuck that was a long post!

1> i agree with greenG above plain water (dont ph )with minimal run off, for at least a week (3 waterings at max)
2> drop room humidity from 60/65 to around 40% use extraction for this!!
3> rember to let the plant put some work in, you are giving her everything on tap!!

I have a 6 inch inline fan exhausting from the tent - also a 6 inch inline fan as an intake. You think all of this is rot caused by the humidity being too high..?

robro, I think it did have something to do with it. I used Sledgehammer to flush about two weeks ago to prevent it, but I think this last week were just too much for them to handle.

lemonking, I want to add that the affected leaves are dry and crispy to the touch. Could that still be rot? I have been using a 40 pint dehumidifier in the room. With the door and window closed, it still only brings the humidity down to about 44-45% (light off) and 57-60% (light on).

ahhhh how does your dehumidifier work? have the leafs started to go like this since its been in the room? could it be possible if its near the affected area of the plants that its sucking moisture out of the plants??

even if the leafs are crispy it can still be from high humidity. you said in your diary that they were drinking all there water in one day, and you have big pots.

if all of the water is being drawn out of the pots so quick it will be leaving behind just the nutes, and as there is no water to dilute them they become super strong and toxic, this may be why you suspect nute burn.

also most of the time if its a root/medium problem by the time you notice it on the leafs it has already done allot of damage.

most people dont realise if you burn your girls with nutes, its actually the roots that have been most affected. if you could see them (like in a dwc bucket) all of the fuzzy white feeder roots actually look burnt, like youve held a lighter to them.

another problem with soil is the buffer factor, you may already have found a solution to the problem but it will take 3-7 days to show. (in the meantime you dont think what youve done has worked so you flush more, starving them more.

...........

when problems occur it is very hard to say....its this or that....all we can do is narrow it down. we do this by making sure your feeding properly and most important

that your enviroment is spot on.

e.g your running a 6" fan, and your still at 60% humidity....tells me its not working and you need a bigger fan, i suggest removing the intake and using it as another outtake and see where you go from there.

passive intake in a tent is fine and youve got co2

do you have high humidity were you are living??.....you need to reduce that humidity!!

The dehumidifier was in the room about a week before the leaves started up. I have been told that optimal humidity during flowering is 40-60% - the lower, the less chance of mold/fungus etc. Would it be safe if my humidity was around 55% and always stayed lower than 60% as long as there was good air flow? I have 4 6" clip on fans (one in each corner of the tent) that are on 24/7.

Would I put the second outtake set up in the hole I am using for intake? Or are you saying use the second hole up top, leaving the bottom open for passive intake?

The humidity isn't especially high where I live, I don't think. Right now the temperature is 63 F and humidity is 78% for the city I live in. My thermometer/hygrometer (placed in the center of the canopy), is saying the temp and rh in the room is 75.7 F and 59%. The window is open, but covered with blinds and black out curtains. The door is closed. The dehumidifier is off.