Newbie Mistakes

Medallica

Active Member
Intro
Hey,
With the legalization in Canada, I've recently started growing again and quickly realized I had forgotten most of what I knew 5 years ago.
With legalization I've been able to track down some proper stuff. I used to grow (believe it or not) with Miracle Grow nutes, Walmart energy savings LED house bulbs, pre-fed soil, the walls were covered in vapor barrier and I never once looked at my water Ph before feeding. So when I say I've forgotten most of what I used to know, its probably for the best!!
That all said I'm creating this thread as a multi-purpose post to get the input of more experienced growers, promptly ignore it and record my mistakes as I accidentally kill plants in the name of stubbornness! I'll be recording what I do, what I'm growing, my set up, ect. Its basically a Newbie's Grow Journal, with the invitation to criticize and judge me for comical entertainment.

The Setup
This time around I've made some serious improvements.
-I've got a 3x3 Mammoth classic tent
-A small but effective HLG 120W Quantum board
-Some Gaia green 4-4-4 and 2-8-4
-Growing in Coco* (Mistakes were made)
-Ditched the hard plastic pots for fabric
-Ph levels are being checked, poorly with aquarium drops (6-7.6Ph range only)
-The plants are Chernobyl clones

* Some notes you may find amusing! When switching to Coco I went looking for Perlite. After a few stores not having any in stock, I saw Vermiculite and asked the employee what it was. Like a newb I blindly trusted him when he told me it was just a different brand, but the exact same thing. Well after mixing my coco with it, transplanting my plants into it, watching it for a week and wondering why it wasn't draining as advertised; I finally decided to fact check what I was told and burst out laughing at my mistake. Root damage occurred during transplant and though they've recovered, I am nervous at just the though of transplanting again to fix this issue. So for better or worse (definitely for the worse) I'm seeing this through to the end. Maybe a more experienced grower has some input on this specific situation, maybe I'm just being paranoid and coco is so good it'll save me from myself, I just don't know and that's okay! for now!
I have been checking the Ph, but the plants started their life in soil, transitioned to coco and its all just so confusing to me to be honest. From the bronzing on their leaves, I'd say its equally as confusing to them but at least we're in this together!

Progress
I've learned a lot in this grow and will be transfering a lot of my new wisdom onto my next grow, but there's still more to learn, these plants haven't died yet and they still produce the occasional female pre-flower. I've trained the plants all wrong, and yet I feel like they're special and unique. I'm evening out the canopy as best I can, but made a huge mistake early on. I pinched the top of the clones to get more tops, then impatiently began LST right away. The result is a sideways plant with most its tops on one side, that I've been trying to train branches out to counterweight it when/if buds come. So unintentionally I've created branches that intertwine and support each other down low, I'm excited to see if this is a natural way of supporting buds, or if I'm just having too much fun and losing sight of the sweet end goals.
When I first picked up the Gaia green, I was following the Directions on the packaging (1tsp/gallon of media). The plants took a turn for the worse and after some lurking I've discovered most Cannabis Growers use 2 Tablespoons per gallon of media. Well with 5 gallons of coco/vermiculite in each pot, that's TEN TABLESPOONS and not the 5 teaspoons I've been using. Awesome! Problem fixed, right? Oops I forgot to mention that I had just watered the day before, so watering again was risky (especially with the vermiculite mistake) but not doing anything wasn't looking good either. So I measured out my nutes, Phed my water and went to work. That was yesterday, so I can't say which direction I just sent them in yet. The leaves aren't looking anymore droopy than before and I honestly don't know if the droop was from too much root moisture or nutrient deficiencies, so only time will reveal if I made the right call or have once again assaulted my plants.
Plants.jpg
Plant1.jpgPlant2.jpgSidePlant1.jpg
I'll keep this updated mainly for my own reference later, but also for anyone who enjoys the read, finds a small bit of comedy here, ect.
Advice is welcome but I refuse to believe you're a guru until I've smoked your bud.
Thanks for coming along for this disaster with me,
Medallica
 

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
Intro
Hey,
With the legalization in Canada, I've recently started growing again and quickly realized I had forgotten most of what I knew 5 years ago.
With legalization I've been able to track down some proper stuff. I used to grow (believe it or not) with Miracle Grow nutes, Walmart energy savings LED house bulbs, pre-fed soil, the walls were covered in vapor barrier and I never once looked at my water Ph before feeding. So when I say I've forgotten most of what I used to know, its probably for the best!!
That all said I'm creating this thread as a multi-purpose post to get the input of more experienced growers, promptly ignore it and record my mistakes as I accidentally kill plants in the name of stubbornness! I'll be recording what I do, what I'm growing, my set up, ect. Its basically a Newbie's Grow Journal, with the invitation to criticize and judge me for comical entertainment.

The Setup
This time around I've made some serious improvements.
-I've got a 3x3 Mammoth classic tent
-A small but effective HLG 120W Quantum board
-Some Gaia green 4-4-4 and 2-8-4
-Growing in Coco* (Mistakes were made)
-Ditched the hard plastic pots for fabric
-Ph levels are being checked, poorly with aquarium drops (6-7.6Ph range only)
-The plants are Chernobyl clones

* Some notes you may find amusing! When switching to Coco I went looking for Perlite. After a few stores not having any in stock, I saw Vermiculite and asked the employee what it was. Like a newb I blindly trusted him when he told me it was just a different brand, but the exact same thing. Well after mixing my coco with it, transplanting my plants into it, watching it for a week and wondering why it wasn't draining as advertised; I finally decided to fact check what I was told and burst out laughing at my mistake. Root damage occurred during transplant and though they've recovered, I am nervous at just the though of transplanting again to fix this issue. So for better or worse (definitely for the worse) I'm seeing this through to the end. Maybe a more experienced grower has some input on this specific situation, maybe I'm just being paranoid and coco is so good it'll save me from myself, I just don't know and that's okay! for now!
I have been checking the Ph, but the plants started their life in soil, transitioned to coco and its all just so confusing to me to be honest. From the bronzing on their leaves, I'd say its equally as confusing to them but at least we're in this together!

Progress
I've learned a lot in this grow and will be transfering a lot of my new wisdom onto my next grow, but there's still more to learn, these plants haven't died yet and they still produce the occasional female pre-flower. I've trained the plants all wrong, and yet I feel like they're special and unique. I'm evening out the canopy as best I can, but made a huge mistake early on. I pinched the top of the clones to get more tops, then impatiently began LST right away. The result is a sideways plant with most its tops on one side, that I've been trying to train branches out to counterweight it when/if buds come. So unintentionally I've created branches that intertwine and support each other down low, I'm excited to see if this is a natural way of supporting buds, or if I'm just having too much fun and losing sight of the sweet end goals.
When I first picked up the Gaia green, I was following the Directions on the packaging (1tsp/gallon of media). The plants took a turn for the worse and after some lurking I've discovered most Cannabis Growers use 2 Tablespoons per gallon of media. Well with 5 gallons of coco/vermiculite in each pot, that's TEN TABLESPOONS and not the 5 teaspoons I've been using. Awesome! Problem fixed, right? Oops I forgot to mention that I had just watered the day before, so watering again was risky (especially with the vermiculite mistake) but not doing anything wasn't looking good either. So I measured out my nutes, Phed my water and went to work. That was yesterday, so I can't say which direction I just sent them in yet. The leaves aren't looking anymore droopy than before and I honestly don't know if the droop was from too much root moisture or nutrient deficiencies, so only time will reveal if I made the right call or have once again assaulted my plants.
View attachment 4511574
View attachment 4511570View attachment 4511571View attachment 4511573
I'll keep this updated mainly for my own reference later, but also for anyone who enjoys the read, finds a small bit of comedy here, ect.
Advice is welcome but I refuse to believe you're a guru until I've smoked your bud.
Thanks for coming along for this disaster with me,
Medallica
Pick a nutrient line and start feeding that thing looks hungry. Like a few weeks ago hungry.
 

sarahJane211

Well-Known Member
The leaves shouldn't be drooping at all.
In coco the plants are supposed to look like this ..............IMG_20200319_084232.jpg

Are you watering until runoff with 1/4 nutes every day? I don't think you are watering or feeding enough.
I'm also using fabric pots, mistake when using coco I think, as they absorb a lot of water.
Plastic for me when I get around to more plants.
 

steve870

Well-Known Member
Intro
Hey,
With the legalization in Canada, I've recently started growing again and quickly realized I had forgotten most of what I knew 5 years ago.
With legalization I've been able to track down some proper stuff. I used to grow (believe it or not) with Miracle Grow nutes, Walmart energy savings LED house bulbs, pre-fed soil, the walls were covered in vapor barrier and I never once looked at my water Ph before feeding. So when I say I've forgotten most of what I used to know, its probably for the best!!
That all said I'm creating this thread as a multi-purpose post to get the input of more experienced growers, promptly ignore it and record my mistakes as I accidentally kill plants in the name of stubbornness! I'll be recording what I do, what I'm growing, my set up, ect. Its basically a Newbie's Grow Journal, with the invitation to criticize and judge me for comical entertainment.

The Setup
This time around I've made some serious improvements.
-I've got a 3x3 Mammoth classic tent
-A small but effective HLG 120W Quantum board
-Some Gaia green 4-4-4 and 2-8-4
-Growing in Coco* (Mistakes were made)
-Ditched the hard plastic pots for fabric
-Ph levels are being checked, poorly with aquarium drops (6-7.6Ph range only)
-The plants are Chernobyl clones

* Some notes you may find amusing! When switching to Coco I went looking for Perlite. After a few stores not having any in stock, I saw Vermiculite and asked the employee what it was. Like a newb I blindly trusted him when he told me it was just a different brand, but the exact same thing. Well after mixing my coco with it, transplanting my plants into it, watching it for a week and wondering why it wasn't draining as advertised; I finally decided to fact check what I was told and burst out laughing at my mistake. Root damage occurred during transplant and though they've recovered, I am nervous at just the though of transplanting again to fix this issue. So for better or worse (definitely for the worse) I'm seeing this through to the end. Maybe a more experienced grower has some input on this specific situation, maybe I'm just being paranoid and coco is so good it'll save me from myself, I just don't know and that's okay! for now!
I have been checking the Ph, but the plants started their life in soil, transitioned to coco and its all just so confusing to me to be honest. From the bronzing on their leaves, I'd say its equally as confusing to them but at least we're in this together!

Progress
I've learned a lot in this grow and will be transfering a lot of my new wisdom onto my next grow, but there's still more to learn, these plants haven't died yet and they still produce the occasional female pre-flower. I've trained the plants all wrong, and yet I feel like they're special and unique. I'm evening out the canopy as best I can, but made a huge mistake early on. I pinched the top of the clones to get more tops, then impatiently began LST right away. The result is a sideways plant with most its tops on one side, that I've been trying to train branches out to counterweight it when/if buds come. So unintentionally I've created branches that intertwine and support each other down low, I'm excited to see if this is a natural way of supporting buds, or if I'm just having too much fun and losing sight of the sweet end goals.
When I first picked up the Gaia green, I was following the Directions on the packaging (1tsp/gallon of media). The plants took a turn for the worse and after some lurking I've discovered most Cannabis Growers use 2 Tablespoons per gallon of media. Well with 5 gallons of coco/vermiculite in each pot, that's TEN TABLESPOONS and not the 5 teaspoons I've been using. Awesome! Problem fixed, right? Oops I forgot to mention that I had just watered the day before, so watering again was risky (especially with the vermiculite mistake) but not doing anything wasn't looking good either. So I measured out my nutes, Phed my water and went to work. That was yesterday, so I can't say which direction I just sent them in yet. The leaves aren't looking anymore droopy than before and I honestly don't know if the droop was from too much root moisture or nutrient deficiencies, so only time will reveal if I made the right call or have once again assaulted my plants.
View attachment 4511574
View attachment 4511570View attachment 4511571View attachment 4511573
I'll keep this updated mainly for my own reference later, but also for anyone who enjoys the read, finds a small bit of comedy here, ect.
Advice is welcome but I refuse to believe you're a guru until I've smoked your bud.
Thanks for coming along for this disaster with me,
Medallica
these plants look like they are starving
 

COtransplant

Well-Known Member
Pick a nutrient line and start feeding that thing looks hungry. Like a few weeks ago hungry.
Yes, purple stems, light green leaves.....plant is telling you. LISTEN! Start with pH....probably off in your medium. Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) and water will hopefully turn it around.

Purple stems, stalks, and petioles may be a warning sign of problems with nutrients, root zone pH, plant health, or grow room environment. Phosphorus and magnesium lockout or deficiencies are at the top of the list

A stressed cannabis plant will often have purple stems and other parts.
 

Pook

Member
Hey Man! I would suggest a water soluble fertilizer program. They seem to be lacking nitrogen (yellowing leaves) ,easy fix once you start feeding! What is the pH of your water? Test the pH of your water before mixing with nutrients, after mixing with nutrients, and then check pH of water that runs through bottom of the pot.

Happy growing :)
 

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
Your plants are starving.
I've yet to see a successful grow using mr. canucks dry amendment method.
Really he makes it look so easy lol

I don’t have access to those amendments but I got something close here I hope and we will see
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Treat coco like hydro. Skip the dry amendments. Use soil if you want to grow that way. Get a water soluble hydroponic nutrient. Calcium nitrate and jacks or Masterblend. Easy peasy. That coco is too dry for plants that size.

I grow in 100% coco and have been for years.

 

Medallica

Active Member
To those who commented just to let me know I had problems already outlined in the main post, thank you for reminding me how illiterate the internet populace is.

When I first picked up the Gaia green, I was following the Directions on the packaging (1tsp/gallon of media). The plants took a turn for the worse and after some lurking I've discovered most Cannabis Growers use 2 Tablespoons per gallon of media. Well with 5 gallons of coco/vermiculite in each pot, that's TEN TABLESPOONS and not the 5 teaspoons I've been using. Awesome! Problem fixed, right? Oops I forgot to mention that I had just watered the day before, so watering again was risky (especially with the vermiculite mistake) but not doing anything wasn't looking good either. So I measured out my nutes, Phed my water and went to work. That was yesterday, so I can't say which direction I just sent them in yet.
Yes not only did I know my plants were starving, I had also already resolved the issue! Old growth just doesn't recover and new growth hadn't had a chance to sprout yet, as I had only fed them properly less than 24h before my post.

Snoopy808; I'm disappointed that you think it needs to be one or the other, why can't I be retarded and have adhd? Its 2020, open your mind mate. Everyone's gotta start somewhere. To imply people should just give up if they're gonna fail the first few times they try something, really makes me sympathetic for you. With that mentality, I'd assume you lead a deprived life style. Afraid to try new things and afraid to fail, you must be an only child who got spoiled constantly. Try experiencing life a little, you might just like it!

COtransplant & Pook; Thanks mates, your comments were actually kinda useful and educational. Leagues above most of the replies here. Pooks, unfortunately I can't test run off because the water retention of the vermiculite mistake. I would have to drown the plants to produce any sort of drainage, and yes I'm aware that is a problem but transplanting isn't possible now. I've been watering with plain water ph'd to 6.0 and have removed samples of the coco to test run off from those instead. Its not an accurate method by any means, but its all I can do without flooding the plants with 5 gallons of water to produce run off.

MickFoster; Thanks for the heads up. I've ended up on mr. canucks method by pure coincidence, not because I even knew it existed. I was growing in soil originally when the plants were small and in 1 gallon pots. The guy in the grow shop was talking up coco so when I upsized the pots, I also switched to coco on an impulse. I didn't even stop to consider coco as a hydroponic media, so didn't consider new nutes. I have learned since and plan to pick up some hydro nutes the next time the grow shop is open. Unfortunately the world is kinda shutting down and my card is maxed so can't order online lol. For now they're feeding off Gaia Green cause that's all I have, and the new growth is green and healthy. The dry amendments seem to be doing the job for veg, but will switch to hydro nutes before flower for sure!

xtsho; You're absolutely right, that coco would be too dry if it were 100% coco! But like I said in the original post, I mistakenly added 30% vermiculite thinking it was the same thing as perlite. Vermiculite isn't common in the cannabis world, so I don't blame you for being ignorant of the properties it adds. Vermiculite is like tiny sponges, holding onto more water than even the coco and wicking it through the coco like crazy. Literally the opposite of perlite, vermiculite increases the water retention and reduced drainage. So with that mistake in mind, I can assure you that the coco is not too dry underneath. Its behaving a lot more like soil because of the vermiculite and I have already encountered root issues keeping the top moist. In my next grow I'll be sure not to repeat this mistake so I can water the coco properly!

In conclusion, this isn't a guide for what to do. If anything its a testimony to the resilience of our favorite plant, and a step by step guide on what NOT to do. Since my original post, most issues have been resolved. Only the red stems have stuck around and I'm already pretty certain it is a nute or Ph problem.
 

xtsho

Well-Known Member
To those who commented just to let me know I had problems already outlined in the main post, thank you for reminding me how illiterate the internet populace is.



Yes not only did I know my plants were starving, I had also already resolved the issue! Old growth just doesn't recover and new growth hadn't had a chance to sprout yet, as I had only fed them properly less than 24h before my post.

Snoopy808; I'm disappointed that you think it needs to be one or the other, why can't I be retarded and have adhd? Its 2020, open your mind mate. Everyone's gotta start somewhere. To imply people should just give up if they're gonna fail the first few times they try something, really makes me sympathetic for you. With that mentality, I'd assume you lead a deprived life style. Afraid to try new things and afraid to fail, you must be an only child who got spoiled constantly. Try experiencing life a little, you might just like it!

COtransplant & Pook; Thanks mates, your comments were actually kinda useful and educational. Leagues above most of the replies here. Pooks, unfortunately I can't test run off because the water retention of the vermiculite mistake. I would have to drown the plants to produce any sort of drainage, and yes I'm aware that is a problem but transplanting isn't possible now. I've been watering with plain water ph'd to 6.0 and have removed samples of the coco to test run off from those instead. Its not an accurate method by any means, but its all I can do without flooding the plants with 5 gallons of water to produce run off.

MickFoster; Thanks for the heads up. I've ended up on mr. canucks method by pure coincidence, not because I even knew it existed. I was growing in soil originally when the plants were small and in 1 gallon pots. The guy in the grow shop was talking up coco so when I upsized the pots, I also switched to coco on an impulse. I didn't even stop to consider coco as a hydroponic media, so didn't consider new nutes. I have learned since and plan to pick up some hydro nutes the next time the grow shop is open. Unfortunately the world is kinda shutting down and my card is maxed so can't order online lol. For now they're feeding off Gaia Green cause that's all I have, and the new growth is green and healthy. The dry amendments seem to be doing the job for veg, but will switch to hydro nutes before flower for sure!

xtsho; You're absolutely right, that coco would be too dry if it were 100% coco! But like I said in the original post, I mistakenly added 30% vermiculite thinking it was the same thing as perlite. Vermiculite isn't common in the cannabis world, so I don't blame you for being ignorant of the properties it adds. Vermiculite is like tiny sponges, holding onto more water than even the coco and wicking it through the coco like crazy. Literally the opposite of perlite, vermiculite increases the water retention and reduced drainage. So with that mistake in mind, I can assure you that the coco is not too dry underneath. Its behaving a lot more like soil because of the vermiculite and I have already encountered root issues keeping the top moist. In my next grow I'll be sure not to repeat this mistake so I can water the coco properly!

In conclusion, this isn't a guide for what to do. If anything its a testimony to the resilience of our favorite plant, and a step by step guide on what NOT to do. Since my original post, most issues have been resolved. Only the red stems have stuck around and I'm already pretty certain it is a nute or Ph problem.
I'm not ignorant of the properties of vermiculite. I have a bag in the greenhouse and use it when mixing seedling mix. It's rather bold of you to call someone else ignorant when you're the one having issues growing in coco. Maybe that was a just a poor choice of wording on your part but it sure sounded condescending. Regardless, I'll take my ignorance out of your thread since the only thing I have to offer is growing healthy plants in coco.

Good luck with your grow.
 

Medallica

Active Member
I'm not ignorant of the properties of vermiculite. I have a bag in the greenhouse and use it when mixing seedling mix. It's rather bold of you to call someone else ignorant when you're the one having issues growing in coco. Maybe that was a just a poor choice of wording on your part but it sure sounded condescending. Regardless, I'll take my ignorance out of your thread since the only thing I have to offer is growing healthy plants in coco.

Good luck with your grow.
If you know the properties of vermiculite and read the original post before sharing your opinion; your comment wouldn't have been along the lines of "your coco is too dry". I have no doubt that you are the leading expert on all things 100% coco, but this isn't 100% coco is it? I've already over watered the coco/vermiculite mix and nearly put my plants out of their misery, yet there you were suggesting I try to kill them again!
You're right though, it was rather bold of me to call you ignorant. I wrongly assumed you didn't know what vermiculite is and assumed that was the source of your ignorant comment. Now you've clarified though, you do know what vermiculite is! So instead of assuming, let me ask. Were you just too arrogant to read and understand the situation before smashing your keyboard?

Yes that's correct. If all you have to offer is knowledge about growing in 100% coco, then you should probably refrain from giving advice to people not growing in 100% coco. Seems like sound logic to me!
Who knows, after this grow (when I can ditch the vermiculite) I may find some of your knowledge elsewhere on these boards and learn from it!
 

Medallica

Active Member
I was called retarded and diagnosed with ADHD in the very first comment, why expect anything else Mick? Its the internet, I won't be a door mat when someone wants to act like an expert without understanding the situation.
However my poor attitude was in no way directed at you, your comment about Mr. Canucks method was genuinely useful. In fact this morning I was able to get a bottle of Mantis nutrients, which I wouldn't have bothered with so soon if you hadn't warned about dry amendments. Thanks for helping a jerk out bud <3
 

MickFoster

Well-Known Member
I was called retarded and diagnosed with ADHD in the very first comment, why expect anything else Mick? Its the internet, I won't be a door mat when someone wants to act like an expert without understanding the situation.
I agree that you were called retarded on the first reply.......but not by xtsho. Yet you felt it necessary to reply in a very condescending way and implied that he was ignorant. You threw the first stone my friend and he responded appropriately.......he was a lot more diplomatic than I would have been. You've been given good advice but you seem to know it all even though you're the one that started the thread asking for help. XTSHO is a good grower and he knows what he's doing......you might want to listen instead of attacking.

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you......it would be useless......we have all had encounters with people like you.

Good luck......I'm outta here.
 
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Medallica

Active Member
I agree that you were called retarded on the first reply.......but not by xtsho. Yet you felt it necessary to reply in a very condescending way and implied that he was ignorant. You threw the first stone my friend and he responded appropriately.......he was a lot more diplomatic than I would have been. You've been given good advice but you seem to know it all even though you're the one that started the thread asking for help. XTSHO is a good grower and he knows what he's doing......you might want to listen instead of attacking.

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you......it would be useless......we have all had encounters with people like you.

Good luck......I'm outta here.
That's totally valid, you aren't wrong and in fact I will happily recognize that they were very diplomatic in their replies. No pissing match needed, I even expressed in my reply that I would be willing to learn from them when I'm growing in the same conditions they are.
Though, the original post clearly states this thread wasn't for help, and more of a record of my mistakes. Like a grow journal. I wasn't posting in "Plant Problems", I posted in Newbie Central as I was under the impression it was meant to be a well of information for new growers. As I was creating LOTS of beginner problems, I was recording the issues for myself and others to avoid later.
 

Medallica

Active Member
Moooving on, the Mantis Nutrients have been making a huge difference. Anyone wondering if its snake oil, not during veg at least. The plants have just finished a 36h dark period and have been flipped to a 12/12 light cycle, so I will update later whether the nutrients can feed a flowering plant as well as the company claims. 1 bottle from seed to harvest seems too good to be true, but maybe its the future.

I've screened them and just been removing lower leaves. The vermiculite hasn't been causing as many issues for the plants as I thought it would, just water it like soil, watering about 1 litre a day now. Its annoying to lose out on the main benefits of coco, but 30% vermiculite is not a plant killer!

Also, porn. I HAVE fed them just before this picture, they will darken again so no need to tell me, but I think part of the bright green is from the 36h dark period too.20200411_102430.jpg
 
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