New to COCO, wanna help?
- Thread starter diggs99
- Start date
gr865
Well-Known Member
Those nutes are fine, my apprentice (that what my friend calls himself, as he just started growing in coco recently) is using those, but just Micro and Bloom, there is enough N in those that you don't need the Grow.
Remember:
LESS IS MORE!
I have used those products, and found that H3Ad's formula 6/9, for coco is a bit to strong, I had it down to a third of that rate at 2/3 for lite constant feeds and that is what my apprentice is using to this day.
I have a sheet that I have posted before, but can send to you if you like. It is based on Canna nutes.
LESS IS MORE!
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Frank Cannon
Well-Known Member
I'd be interested to see your canna sheet also
gr865
Well-Known Member
LESS IS MORE
200 ppm of a + b for veg. is plenty.
350 ppm of a + b for flower is plenty.
CaliMagic/Canna A&B ratio
150 ppm/200 ppm = 350
100 ppm/300 ppm = 400
50 ppm/ 400 ppm= 450
Here is a chart the gives the ratios of Calcium in given ppm of A&B.
This Calcium information is purely based on a Canna schedule, using CaliMagic. Once you hit around 700 ppm, Canna base nutes, you no longer need Cal/mag additives.
This is based on slightly rough math but is very close to correct, in my experience.
A&B
3 ml/gal = .4 EC = 200 ppm with around 44 ppm of calcium
4.5 ml/gal = .6 EC = 300 ppm with around 66 ppm of calcium
6.2 ml/gal = .8 EC = 400 ppm with around 88 ppm of calcium
7.7 ml/gal = 1 EC = 500 ppm with around 112 ppm of calcium
9.2 ml/gal = 1.2 EC = 600 ppm with around 135 ppm of calcium.
I use GH Cal/Magic and I believe the recommended rate is 1 tsp/5 ml/gallon. I use Canna Coco's line of nutrients but I back off of their recommended rates, as I feel they are way high. For example, in veg I will add only 200 ppm of A&B and in flower 350 ppm. Now these rates do not give me the Cal ratio needed. You need around 150 ppm of calcium alone.....so even if when I'm at 200 ppm if I only added 100 ppm of Calimagic, only 75 is calcium so I would still be a tad short. In flower, I use RO (55 ppm of Cal/Mag), to this I add 0.75 ml Cal/Magic (68 ppm) and 0.5 grams Epsom (63 ppm) per gallon to bring my #'s to 131 ppm, below the 150 ppm needed, That's without the 55 ppm of the RO, then begin adding the base nutrients. But I have been working with this and it seems ok. I believe it has to do with the 55 ppm of Cal/Mag that is added back to my RO water.
pH of 5.8 and let it drift to 6.0 to 6.1. Drip Clean for the win, helps clean the root system of excess nutes and keeps you nozzles clean.
Hope this makes sense!
200 ppm of a + b for veg. is plenty.
350 ppm of a + b for flower is plenty.
CaliMagic/Canna A&B ratio
150 ppm/200 ppm = 350
100 ppm/300 ppm = 400
50 ppm/ 400 ppm= 450
Here is a chart the gives the ratios of Calcium in given ppm of A&B.
This Calcium information is purely based on a Canna schedule, using CaliMagic. Once you hit around 700 ppm, Canna base nutes, you no longer need Cal/mag additives.
This is based on slightly rough math but is very close to correct, in my experience.
A&B
3 ml/gal = .4 EC = 200 ppm with around 44 ppm of calcium
4.5 ml/gal = .6 EC = 300 ppm with around 66 ppm of calcium
6.2 ml/gal = .8 EC = 400 ppm with around 88 ppm of calcium
7.7 ml/gal = 1 EC = 500 ppm with around 112 ppm of calcium
9.2 ml/gal = 1.2 EC = 600 ppm with around 135 ppm of calcium.
I use GH Cal/Magic and I believe the recommended rate is 1 tsp/5 ml/gallon. I use Canna Coco's line of nutrients but I back off of their recommended rates, as I feel they are way high. For example, in veg I will add only 200 ppm of A&B and in flower 350 ppm. Now these rates do not give me the Cal ratio needed. You need around 150 ppm of calcium alone.....so even if when I'm at 200 ppm if I only added 100 ppm of Calimagic, only 75 is calcium so I would still be a tad short. In flower, I use RO (55 ppm of Cal/Mag), to this I add 0.75 ml Cal/Magic (68 ppm) and 0.5 grams Epsom (63 ppm) per gallon to bring my #'s to 131 ppm, below the 150 ppm needed, That's without the 55 ppm of the RO, then begin adding the base nutrients. But I have been working with this and it seems ok. I believe it has to do with the 55 ppm of Cal/Mag that is added back to my RO water.
pH of 5.8 and let it drift to 6.0 to 6.1. Drip Clean for the win, helps clean the root system of excess nutes and keeps you nozzles clean.
Hope this makes sense!
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diggs99
Well-Known Member
Man thanks very much for this. This makes alot of sense, helped me understand the breakdown.
Are those ppm ranges you use for every strain? or have you found some strains need stronger ppm?
Its amazing that some guys are running 700-800 or more ppm feedings and others like yourself at 350-400 and all have stellar results.
Blue back
Well-Known Member
I agree less is more with Canna. Pretty close to the same run down. Little confused about the calMag. Some say you need to add it every water others say you don't need any additives to the canna line. I give them about 5 or less ml. per gal. every water besides the full canna line.
To the OP I didn't care for perlite mixed in my coco. It dried out super fast compared to straight.
diggs99
Well-Known Member
thats good to know, so your just running straight coco?
I plan to go with 3g fabric pots in a 4x4 tent
hoping to have automated watering ready before april when i leave for vacation
gr865
Well-Known Member
What is your total ppm/EC. I posted as worksheet earlier in the section. After I add everything to the mix my ppm is 650 plus.
"Some say you need to add it every water others say you don't need any additives to the canna line."
If you run Canna at their full recommendation you don't need it because once over 700 ppm A&B there is enough Ca and Mag. So, like myself, running 300 ppm A&B I am lite and need Cal/Mag ever run. I have tried backing off and get deficiencies. Even late in the grow.
I agree on adding perlite, my friend (apprentice), runs coco/perlite, same set as mine but I don't use perlite. He dries out faster than I do.
gr865
Well-Known Member
My total ppm is less than 700 with everything in it. I know if you use the Canna grow guide, it recommends A&B at a much higher rate than I use.
gr865
Well-Known Member
I am running A&B at around 300 with this latest rez mix. When I consider everything in the mix including the A&B, Epsom, Calimagic, Cannazym, Rhizotonic, Boost, Drip Clean, PK 13/14 and add in the starting ppm the total comes to 677 ppm.
Look at the worksheet above it has a breakdown of each.
It's mainly about keeping my A&B at around 300 to 350 ppm in flower.
Look at the worksheet above it has a breakdown of each.
It's mainly about keeping my A&B at around 300 to 350 ppm in flower.
diggs99
Well-Known Member
Can you recommend a good timer to use on my DTW setup? @TintEastwood @gr865
preferably something i can buy on amazon.ca lol
I am gonna use a 27g tote as my reservoir ( i expect to use alot less than 27g of water a week tho), i have a 400gph pump. Need to get some lines and fittings next
But def going to need a good reliable timer.
preferably something i can buy on amazon.ca lol
I am gonna use a 27g tote as my reservoir ( i expect to use alot less than 27g of water a week tho), i have a 400gph pump. Need to get some lines and fittings next
But def going to need a good reliable timer.
Renfro
Well-Known Member
You looking for a repeat cycle timer? I know that Titan makes a good one for about 30 bucks ish.
https://www.zenhydro.com/titan-controls-spartan-series-repeat-cycle-timer.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoP3iiMro4AIVxh6tBh2fYQ5WEAYYASABEgKB6vD_BwE
I have an old GAP repeat cycle timer that has longer delay times. Dunno if they still make them tho.
https://www.zenhydro.com/titan-controls-spartan-series-repeat-cycle-timer.html?utm_source=google_shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoP3iiMro4AIVxh6tBh2fYQ5WEAYYASABEgKB6vD_BwE
I have an old GAP repeat cycle timer that has longer delay times. Dunno if they still make them tho.
diggs99
Well-Known Member
Ya i think thats exactly what im looking for. I want to feed 2 or 3x per day on drip from reservoir, i assume these are the timers the automated guys are using to make that happen lol
Thanks bro
Renfro
Well-Known Member
I am not sure that timer has a long enough delay.
This one will delay up to 8 hours. thats more like what you want I think.
https://hydrobuilder.com/grow-room-environment/atmosphere-controllers/recycling-timers/c-a-p-adjustable-recycling-timer.html?ptid=8552139979&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzbCh9czo4AIVcyCtBh3rYgCbEAQYBCABEgKc1vD_BwE
This one will delay up to 8 hours. thats more like what you want I think.
https://hydrobuilder.com/grow-room-environment/atmosphere-controllers/recycling-timers/c-a-p-adjustable-recycling-timer.html?ptid=8552139979&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzbCh9czo4AIVcyCtBh3rYgCbEAQYBCABEgKc1vD_BwE
diggs99
Well-Known Member
ok good looking out renfro, both are on Amazon, i wouldnt have noticed that lol
diggs99
Well-Known Member
i think 8 hours max should be fine. or atleast im assuming it will be