New Technology for grow room electricity?

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Here's a very nice lecture, if you're interested:

This is just a glance, but he talks a little about numbers.
Bruce is a very nice guy, I met him once in a conference when I was still working on my PhD.
Thanks for posting that, I just watched the whole thing. One input he does not discuss is cost of land, or rent. This is where vertical farming shines best and helps explain why indoor farms make sense in urban areas.

Under normal circumstances it doesn't come close to redressing the imbalance of costs of indoor vs greenhouse or outdoor production.

He's right about all of this; for example, my water cooled air handlers do pull condensate from the sealed grow space and recycle it. A well sealed space can recycle basically all of the water again and again. This is no free lunch, because the chiller has to provide the energy with which to do it and that's not cheap.

One more thing; he's using a figure of 15% when discussing the efficiency of double ended HPS and LED lighting. This is jarringly different from the 40% number for DE HPS and up to 60% for advanced LED lights. What's going on there? I've seen this discrepancy before and no one has been able to adequately explain it.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the wildly different lighting efficiency numbers?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I have often wondered how we would deal with a mini ice age today.
We are approaching a solar minimum. The sun's output is at some of the lowest levels it has been for hundreds of years.
I would not be surprised if it takes a little nap again soon.
That's easy! Crank up the coal fired power plants again! Both the excess CO2 and the soot on the snow would increase solar gain.

The biggest impact to global temperatures are volcanoes. By blasting cubic miles of particulates into the upper stratosphere they shade and cool the Earth.

Krakatoa, 1812; the two or three years after became known as 'eighteen hundred and froze to death'.

Pinatubo; was all but singlehandedly responsible for a two year hiatus of global warming.

Mt St Helens; another somewhat smaller pause in global warming.

All of these were nothing compared to what's known to geologists and volcanologists as a caldera or super volcano. One of those happens and modern civilisation would be in deep shit and global warming would become a pleasant memory.
 
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
This is all very interesting to me. I'm just researching forbidden archeology and there appears to be a giant pyramid underground in ALASKA! This thing is 4X the size of the one in egypt. The men in black have known about it since the Cold War. But the thing is, the thing is still on. It's got enough power production to power all of Canada as well as several states in the USA. Look it up on youtube and see what there is about it if you're curious. I'd love to see people using methods to obtain power that be free too. Those smart meters emit something that is causing cancer. They're also imposed in Australia and cancer rates are skyrocketing.
Good grief. Conspiracy theory much?
 

DaveInCave

Well-Known Member
Thanks for posting that, I just watched the whole thing. One input he does not discuss is cost of land, or rent. This is where vertical farming shines best and helps explain why indoor farms make sense in urban areas.

Under normal circumstances it doesn't come close to redressing the imbalance of costs of indoor vs greenhouse or outdoor production.

He's right about all of this; for example, my water cooled air handlers do pull condensate from the sealed grow space and recycle it. A well sealed space can recycle basically all of the water again and again. This is no free lunch, because the chiller has to provide the energy with which to do it and that's not cheap.

One more thing; he's using a figure of 15% when discussing the efficiency of double ended HPS and LED lighting. This is jarringly different from the 40% number for DE HPS and up to 60% for advanced LED lights. What's going on there? I've seen this discrepancy before and no one has been able to adequately explain it.

Does anyone have any thoughts about the wildly different lighting efficiency numbers?
Again we need to separate 2 things:
Energetic efficiency, and commercial feasibility.

The videos explains quite well in my opinion why it would be both energetically and environmentally better to grow crops outdoors and drive them several hundreds miles in a truck to urban centers for consumption.

But, the video also discusses the fact that market economy and supply and demand, still make it commercially feasible to grow very specific crops in urban farms.
These are crops that are quick to grow and are needed fresh - basil, lettuce etc.

About the numbers and lighting efficiency, the only 15% number I remember that deals with efficiency is the average efficiency of solar panels, compared to direct sunlight on a field of plants. He explains it at 17:46 in the lecture. Basically out of 1000W/m2 of direct sunlight, solar panels capture 150W.
from these 150W of electricity, The best LEDs (of that time, end of 2015) are able to produce 1.74umol/J, which equates to 260umol/m2*s.
He also talks about the big advancements in efficiency in LED and HPS lighting, the numbers he uses are quite recent and are quite accurate still.

My main point is that a system like this one:
Sunlight > Solar panels > electricity > light > plants

Will necessarily, and ALWAYS be energetically less efficient than this system:
Sunlight > plants.

Again, in certain circumstances, and certain scenario this energetic inefficiency can be justified, for example for economical reasons, for fear of being caught by LE for growing illegal crops, for very extreme latitudes/climates, etc. etc.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
Those smart meters emit something that is causing cancer. They're also imposed in Australia and cancer rates are skyrocketing.
yep, but not as much as your cell phone, with cell phone usage at an all time high daily its no wonder cancer is skyrocketing maybe?
first half of the directions tell you how to use your cell phone while the second half tells you why you should not be using it, carrying it, talking into it or listening to it= because of the cancer risks.
who cares, get cancer swallow tongue -I'm a fukken hero!
 

MMJ Dreaming 99

Well-Known Member
How dumb is your utility company? They read the meters every 30 days here. Your utility must be dumb as rocks, lol!
The "smart" meters are potentially real time.

I mentioned earliers that there are a few videos by a DIY guy who built his own Tesla wall battery system using cheap batteries. He did the whole thing for like $400 or something really cheap.

It looked pretty easy to do. The last step of hooking up to the house might require and electrician. He even created his own case and got a Tesla logo so the thing looks just like the Tesla case. It takes a little work but there are loads of DIY guys here who experienment with COB LED's who could easily put one together. Especially the guy with the weird golden death mask - he is one of my favorite homies. His QB builds are killer.

American guy in So Cal. He has an insanely cool old VW bus. The bus is to die for. His videos are awesome. $300 to build one. The guy is fantastic at teaching how to do it.

English Guy doing it for $900. Super clean build. He has a series on videos on doing the build.
 

MMJ Dreaming 99

Well-Known Member
Another guy maybe an Aussie building one that is 20 Kilowatts? WTF? Crazy stuff.

At 6 minutes he mentions another dude on youtube who has a channel and is running 33 kilowatts. Wild stuff.
 

greg nr

Well-Known Member
Those are some scary diy videos right there. One of the guys had a meltdown on his workbench.

I can easily imagine a homer simpson build taking out someones house......
 

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
sorry, but that is incorrect.

Ohio=prosecution for a user’s reconnecting a device that was disconnected by a utility, such activity now is considered prima facie evidence the user intended to defraud the utility.
It’s a fourth-degree felony if more than $150(worth of electricity stolen).

MI-
State Bill 1311 and State Bill 1312


  • It is a felony to steal, attempt to sell, or transfer electricity or natural gas service
  • people charged in these crimes usually face a charge of malicious destruction of property - public utility which is a five-year felony.
You should read that last line you quoted me on....

"Not every one on this site comes from "lock em up Merica". calm down kid."


Its a huge 2k fine here.
"Interfere with supply of electricity. Maximum Penalty: 1 . $2000 or 2 Years Imprisonment"

I think id pay the 2k
 
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Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Those smart meters emit something that is causing cancer. They're also imposed in Australia and cancer rates are skyrocketing.
I wasnt aware we even had smart meters in Australia...you sure your not confusing us with England?
 

buckets

Well-Known Member
I'll check out those videos. I know about cell phones and cancer. Especially testicular cancer.
 

Bakersfield

Well-Known Member
I'd rather pay for the power I use, because stealing is bad karma and would be one more thing to worry about. :eyesmoke:
The last place I rented in town, had a smart meter and I never once saw the meter reader. I think they read it back at the office.
You'll still see the gas meter reader drive up and down the road, around town with their little antenna poking out the cab, remotely reading meters, on the fly.
 

chemphlegm

Well-Known Member
my smart meters, with the addition of m app/link allow me to see exactly what is using power, how much power and the cost per minute/hour/day/month. from grow lights to the ac unit, fridge, freezer etc. every plug is labeled and shown in the app. its amazing, if I was gay I'd love on big brother these days!:shock:
 

Bakersfield

Well-Known Member
my smart meters, with the addition of m app/link allow me to see exactly what is using power, how much power and the cost per minute/hour/day/month. from grow lights to the ac unit, fridge, freezer etc. every plug is labeled and shown in the app. its amazing, if I was gay I'd love on big brother these days!:shock:
You've got to find silver linings where you can.
Seems to me the only reason to steal power would be to cover up a large operation.

How many kilowatts of power does it take to get the attention of the authorities?
 
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