New system and looking to add supplement nutrients

B

bongboy8200

Member
Cliff notes: using GH 3 part and calmag. Looking to add supplements for flavor, yield, appeal.
veg tent one 12 gal 3 autos. The other 2 photos. Autos are getting a 12-18gal control tote. Both have sprayers added too. The photos move to 12/12 with their own control tanks.

Pic is today. Germinated and put into the bubbler/aero 4/1. Temps are 70-75° 50-70% humidity kpa 0.8-1.4

My profile says newb Bc I can’t remember my old log in. I’m no pro but I’ve only grown hydro dwc for about 2 years 10/15 years ago. Back then I was just using Botinacare grow and bloom with their calmag. Hydro shop had advices this over anything else being a newb also said it’s a waste going with anything else. I am a molecular biologist although rusty and never got in depth with plants aside from this but I do understand biochemistry very well.

now that I’m back I’m running leds and GH flora series with humidity controls etc, before was cfls and 400w hps. Im still dwc with added sprayers and adding RDWC into the systems. Right now I have 2 12 gal totes. One with 2 photos the other with 3 autos, all are different strains 2 paid for the rest were freebies. To get my feet wet again 5/6 i germ took. I did have struggles. Started with clonex root solution. And think I waited too long to start the GH flora series.
My idea is to keep 3 autos going in the veg tent in the 12 gal tote hooked up to another 12gal tote (possibly an 18). Veg 2 photos in the dwc 12 gal. Start 2 more photos in the veg tent bubbler/sprayer in rapid rooters. Those move to the 12 gal tote. The 2 in veg move to the flower tent. Two 4 gallon buckets, one 4 gal control, 18g res auto feeding the control (this set up times 2). I can run 1 strain in each system for a perpetual grow and really dial those in with the 6 part nutrients. And have 3’autos going at all times of different strains for some variety.
What’s your thoughts on the systems? I think the sprayers are over kill but helped with transplanting into 5in pots with clay to get the roots and not have to top feed. I was doing 1 min every hour. Now 10 seconds every 30 mins since roots are big in the water. Trying to give an airoponic effect and increase roots at the top of the nets. They are super thick right now and so clean compared to Botinacare. I was just using the back of the bottle the last 4 weeks. Now adjusted to the gh schedule. I’m only using grow, bloom, micro, calmag. I’d like to incorporate some additional fertilizers and know there’s no reason to only use GH stuff and have seen members dialed in with mixed matches for the best results. Can you advise me what route I should go? Or go with floralicous and liquid karma? And how do I really dial them in. Even right now just using the 3. If I feel I’m low on let’s say nitrogen, i would think I would slowly increase the bottle with the most nitrogen or supplement with that. I know with this run before reading I was like I’ll go heavier on grow and lighter on everything else since the back of the bottle is equal everything. Dumb ass me was super phosp deficient for 2 weeks. Any help would be appreciated
 

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OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
I did a lot of DWC using AN 3-part and played around with a lot of the different supplements over 20 years. Most are a waste of money except for Big Bud. I did a few side-by-side experiments with and without it and it does make a big difference in yield, potency and especially smell and taste. Most bud boosters use too much P which is fine during the stretch but the plants want less of that and more K after. BB is 0-15-35 with 10%S, 20 amino acids, ascorbic acid, (vit. C) and some citric acid.

S is needed to make all aromatic molecules and the 'secret ingredient' for a lot of bud boosters. It really adds to resin and terpene production. Too much P in later flowering is what gives pot that chem taste when smoked. I always get the powder form of BB as it has a lot longer shelf life but if you can use up a whole bottle of the liquid in a year that should be fine too.

I also tried adding a half dose of the BB a week before flipping to flower along with extra Bloom with the other half at the flip. Noticeably faster bud formation and lots more bud sites too. After the stretch I'd switch to Lucas Formula style feeding along with the BB and cut out the calmag using Epsom Salts to add that extra Mg the plants want in that stage. During the stretch feeding goes up by as much as 4X but right after it drops back to levels like later veg so extra nutes, light and higher temps with added CO2 can cause phenomenal growth.

I like to add more zinc too so grind up a couple of my 50mg zinc citrate tabs to toss in the tank along with some B1 which is the only B vitamin the plants can really use. Usually one dose of that during veg and another at the flip. Not sure if it does much but doesn't seem to hurt.

People bitch that AN costs more and their supplements do but so do most others and none of them are going to add more than a few percent to your yields. The actual 3-part nutes can often be cheaper than GH or others and are generally cleaner with some added supplements not found in GH etc. Not to mention AN from day one made sure everyone knew they made nutes for pot while all the rest hid behind flowers and veggies. Years ago a buddy who used GH phoned them to ask some questions and as soon as the mentioned pot they hung up on him. He called AN and made out like he used their nutes and gabbed for an hour.

BB is great to use with any nutes in hydro soil or soilless mediums and they make an 'Organically Derived' version of it too tho when using hydro nutes organics is the least of our concerns. Any reputable hydro nute is cleaner than real dirt anyways. Amazing how much crap is in soil that ends up in your plants.

:peace:
 
B

bongboy8200

Member
OldMedUser said:
I did a lot of DWC using AN 3-part and played around with a lot of the different supplements over 20 years. Most are a waste of money except for Big Bud. I did a few side-by-side experiments with and without it and it does make a big difference in yield, potency and especially smell and taste. Most bud boosters use too much P which is fine during the stretch but the plants want less of that and more K after. BB is 0-15-35 with 10%S, 20 amino acids, ascorbic acid, (vit. C) and some citric acid.

S is needed to make all aromatic molecules and the 'secret ingredient' for a lot of bud boosters. It really adds to resin and terpene production. Too much P in later flowering is what gives pot that chem taste when smoked. I always get the powder form of BB as it has a lot longer shelf life but if you can use up a whole bottle of the liquid in a year that should be fine too.

I also tried adding a half dose of the BB a week before flipping to flower along with extra Bloom with the other half at the flip. Noticeably faster bud formation and lots more bud sites too. After the stretch I'd switch to Lucas Formula style feeding along with the BB and cut out the calmag using Epsom Salts to add that extra Mg the plants want in that stage. During the stretch feeding goes up by as much as 4X but right after it drops back to levels like later veg so extra nutes, light and higher temps with added CO2 can cause phenomenal growth.

I like to add more zinc too so grind up a couple of my 50mg zinc citrate tabs to toss in the tank along with some B1 which is the only B vitamin the plants can really use. Usually one dose of that during veg and another at the flip. Not sure if it does much but doesn't seem to hurt.

People bitch that AN costs more and their supplements do but so do most others and none of them are going to add more than a few percent to your yields. The actual 3-part nutes can often be cheaper than GH or others and are generally cleaner with some added supplements not found in GH etc. Not to mention AN from day one made sure everyone knew they made nutes for pot while all the rest hid behind flowers and veggies. Years ago a buddy who used GH phoned them to ask some questions and as soon as the mentioned pot they hung up on him. He called AN and made out like he used their nutes and gabbed for an hour.

BB is great to use with any nutes in hydro soil or soilless mediums and they make an 'Organically Derived' version of it too tho when using hydro nutes organics is the least of our concerns. Any reputable hydro nute is cleaner than real dirt anyways. Amazing how much crap is in soil that ends up in your plants.

:peace:
Click to expand...
Thanks for going into detail man!! I do see everyone complaining about AN price but to not deal with pH seems awesome to me. I actually order a few things to stay a head. Floralisous plus, armor si and Diamond nectore from GH (I was reading that floralicous plus is really Diamond nectore and floralicous bloom but Diamond nector doesn’t have nitrogen so it’s good to run 2 weeks before chopping. I also got big bud and bud candy from AN. How’s the dosing work with big bud in the mix of the Gh nutes. I didn’t get the bottles yet so I don’t have the ingredients in front of me. Thanks again man!
 
Drop That Sound

Drop That Sound

Well-Known Member
One time I got lazy.. and kept my DWC cuttings growing in nothing but clonex solution in the bubble cloner, all the way till harvest, lol. Used like half the bottle, but was some good smoke! :bigjoint:
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
bongboy8200 said:
Thanks for going into detail man!! I do see everyone complaining about AN price but to not deal with pH seems awesome to me. I actually order a few things to stay a head. Floralisous plus, armor si and Diamond nectore from GH (I was reading that floralicous plus is really Diamond nectore and floralicous bloom but Diamond nector doesn’t have nitrogen so it’s good to run 2 weeks before chopping. I also got big bud and bud candy from AN. How’s the dosing work with big bud in the mix of the Gh nutes. I didn’t get the bottles yet so I don’t have the ingredients in front of me. Thanks again man!
Click to expand...
I tried that bud candy in my DWC and got slime all over the walls of the tub and airstones. Carbs won't do anything for the plants really and are mainly used in soil and soilless grows to feed the microherd so they can do a better job of converting organic matter into the salts that the plants can eat. When using salt based nutes in hydro grows we bypass that need and give them what they need straight up.

A good way to screw up a grow is to toss all sorts of 'goodies' at the plants. A lot of the time they have the same ingredients as other ones so you end up throwing things way out of balance getting burn and lockouts. Unless you have some deep knowledge about all the ingredients in each of the products you plan to use it's easy to mess things up.

It's almost always best to be on the low side with the nutes as it's a lot easier to correct for that than to fix up damages that can be caused by pushing the plants.

I started using the old AN 3-part in DWC back in '01 when even Ed Rosenthal didn't think a simple system like that would be very productive. When I finally ran low and got the new ones with pH Perfect I wondered why I waited so long to switch. With RO or distilled water I could go the whole grow without ever changing nutes but would adjust the ratios of each of the 3-part for different stages of growth. Changing nutes in the early stage of veg is a waste of good nutes. I'd just test the ppm then add small amounts using syringes for accurate measure to maintain my target ppm or raise it as the plants got bigger.

I figure I did about 50 tubs worth from '01 to '19 then just switched to using the same nutes in Promix HP. ATM I don't have any plants growing for the first time since '01 when we moved up here to northern Alberta from the Fraser Valley in BC. Sure miss the fishing back there but not the constant rain and crazy cost of living. Hoping to trip out there this Oct for some good coho fishing and a trip to the family cabin on the Thanksgiving weekend. My 70th b-day is on Thanksgiving day this year too so would be nice. Mom will be 97 in late August so I should get out there more often.

:peace:
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
bongboy8200 said:
Cliff notes: using GH 3 part and calmag. Looking to add supplements for flavor, yield, appeal.
veg tent one 12 gal 3 autos. The other 2 photos. Autos are getting a 12-18gal control tote. Both have sprayers added too. The photos move to 12/12 with their own control tanks.

Pic is today. Germinated and put into the bubbler/aero 4/1. Temps are 70-75° 50-70% humidity kpa 0.8-1.4

My profile says newb Bc I can’t remember my old log in. I’m no pro but I’ve only grown hydro dwc for about 2 years 10/15 years ago. Back then I was just using Botinacare grow and bloom with their calmag. Hydro shop had advices this over anything else being a newb also said it’s a waste going with anything else. I am a molecular biologist although rusty and never got in depth with plants aside from this but I do understand biochemistry very well.

now that I’m back I’m running leds and GH flora series with humidity controls etc, before was cfls and 400w hps. Im still dwc with added sprayers and adding RDWC into the systems. Right now I have 2 12 gal totes. One with 2 photos the other with 3 autos, all are different strains 2 paid for the rest were freebies. To get my feet wet again 5/6 i germ took. I did have struggles. Started with clonex root solution. And think I waited too long to start the GH flora series.
My idea is to keep 3 autos going in the veg tent in the 12 gal tote hooked up to another 12gal tote (possibly an 18). Veg 2 photos in the dwc 12 gal. Start 2 more photos in the veg tent bubbler/sprayer in rapid rooters. Those move to the 12 gal tote. The 2 in veg move to the flower tent. Two 4 gallon buckets, one 4 gal control, 18g res auto feeding the control (this set up times 2). I can run 1 strain in each system for a perpetual grow and really dial those in with the 6 part nutrients. And have 3’autos going at all times of different strains for some variety.
What’s your thoughts on the systems? I think the sprayers are over kill but helped with transplanting into 5in pots with clay to get the roots and not have to top feed. I was doing 1 min every hour. Now 10 seconds every 30 mins since roots are big in the water. Trying to give an airoponic effect and increase roots at the top of the nets. They are super thick right now and so clean compared to Botinacare. I was just using the back of the bottle the last 4 weeks. Now adjusted to the gh schedule. I’m only using grow, bloom, micro, calmag. I’d like to incorporate some additional fertilizers and know there’s no reason to only use GH stuff and have seen members dialed in with mixed matches for the best results. Can you advise me what route I should go? Or go with floralicous and liquid karma? And how do I really dial them in. Even right now just using the 3. If I feel I’m low on let’s say nitrogen, i would think I would slowly increase the bottle with the most nitrogen or supplement with that. I know with this run before reading I was like I’ll go heavier on grow and lighter on everything else since the back of the bottle is equal everything. Dumb ass me was super phosp deficient for 2 weeks. Any help would be appreciated
Click to expand...
The plants are looking not bad at all. I'd ditch the sprayers tho. I always made my tub lids with a 2" hole to get water in and out, take samples and add nutes etc. I'd start with the shorter tubs that hold 35L when full to an inch below the net pots and use a big syringe or turkey baster to suck up some nutes and piss down the pots a couple times a day until the roots emerged from the pots. That usually only took a few days and they don't need to be in the water as the popping bubbles from the 2 - 12" airstones kept everything nice and wet down there.

12hole.jpg

BoilingTubs01.jpg

Roots.jpg

I would start my clones at around 300ppm. 1ml/L of all 3 bottles would be just about right. Once the plants started growing well I'd switch to a 3:2:1 ratio, G-M-B for the rest of veg. A week before flipping bump up the ppm with a 1:1:1 ratio and half a dose of BB with the other half at the flip. Burn my alcohol lamp for extra CO2 and set my exhaust fan controller to wait until it hit 90f before kicking in and it rarely got hot enough to switch it on. Very cool down in my underground basement grow room even in summer so had a heater on a thermostat to keep the temps up when the light was out. I still use HIDs or the heater would have to kick in most months unless I was running a 1000W light so wouldn't save anything on power using LEDs. Most of the time a 600W was enough and I can use the light rail instead of the 1000W the footprint is a bit bigger. The rail only uses 9W so saves some there and the Hortilux bulbs do a great job for flowering.

Our humidity is really low here. Even now it's only 15% and it hit 20C/69F today but we haven't had any rain so far and the snow was gone a month ago so dry as hell. Big wildfire about a half hour away near Peace River with another 60+ fires in the province already. Dry last year too with little snow and my dugout is lower than it's been in years so hopefully some rain later to bring it up a bit. We get our water out of it so a couple more dry years and I could be in trouble.

Out on the dugout leak testing the little tinny I bought last spring to get out and do some fishing. No leaks and the trolling motor works great. Haven't even used the 9.9 Johnson that came with the boat. Might just sell that. I like rowing it for exercise if it's not too windy on the bigger lake I go to for pike and walleye. Don't even need the trolling motor on the little trout lake.

Dugout.JPG

:peace:
 
B

bongboy8200

Member
Gemtree said:
Floralicious Plus. Sea green is good too if you can find it sometimes I get little bottles of eBay it's 1ml /gal too
Click to expand...
Thanks bro. Can you take a look at this. This is the second bottle I got. I feel like it’s not the same formula. It doesn’t say humic acid any where and says vital plant food on it
 

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