New grower. Beginning 3rd solo run. Knowledge appreciated

CadillacJack

CadillacJack

Well-Known Member
*****Tips, tricks, and advice welcome and appreciated *****

GorillaGrow Lite Line 4x4 with height extension. Total height 7'6"
MarsHydro TS-3000. Drivers mounted outside tent.
8" AC INFINITY exhaust. Pulled through 8" carbon filter
6" AC INFINITY inlet. Pulled through 6" carbon filter
12" Pelonis oscillating fan
2 × 6" Hurricane fans
Happy Frog soil
Have not started nutes, but have some FF products on hand

4 × Apple Fritter clones {
Roughly 17" - 19"
3 gallon fabric pots
Topped [all appear successful, one appears to have 3 new growths]
}

2 × Durban Pancakes from seed {
Roughly 12"
1 gallon fabric pots
Major issues [root rot, cut away dead roots, plants in recovery]
Plants received in poor health, asked to salvage
Intend to heal enough to move outdoors
}

Lights are on 24 hours at ~62.5%
 

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Last edited:
CadillacJack

CadillacJack

Well-Known Member
Last 2 runs were Duct tape. 4 plants. Fought with issues the entire time, but the buds came out nice. 1lb ballpark each run. Last run was 10 months total, because I didn't want to push flower until all issues resolved. The plants were taller than me on chop day. That's why I have the extension.

After reading through several articles, I stumbled on some tasty tidbits. I'm hoping to utilize that info and glean more throughout the run.

The Pic of the calendar in the fist post is how I track what I do and when. Plants are currently on day 6 of vegging in my tent. I watered today with water from my brita filter. I did not pH the water because a thread I found discussed soil buffering. Tested run off. 6.4ph. The filter usually pushes out water above 8.0. I didn't verify this time so as not to psych myself out and use my pH kit.


The Durban Pancake plants were given to me by a neighbor. We share a backyard. He was gifted from a third party. They were in bad shape when I got them. I repotted them in fresh soil. During transplant, I saw brown roots, but not many. I thought the fresh soil would heal them. I was wrong. After a few days of no improvement, I fed them fish fertilizer. They reacted negatively. That's when I decided to operate on the roots. I dug them both up and removed anything that looked even slightly unhealthy. This was a large amount for DP1. They were both repotted with mycorhiza. They both appear to be recovering. I would like to nurse them back in time to put outdoors. Indoors would be nice, but I have no idea how much they'll stretch compared to the Apple Fritter.
 
CadillacJack

CadillacJack

Well-Known Member
Veg Day 7 update

My girls are not looking so healthy. I watered yesterday with 1.5 liters of brita filtered water. Runoff was 6.4pH. That was only the 2nd watering. First was on day 2.

Plants are droopy and showing signs of something wrong. I will try to find deficiency charts and identify the issue, but any advice would be greatly appreciated

Deficiency or operator error?
 

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FirstCavApache64

FirstCavApache64

Well-Known Member
For vegging plants you want much more than 30% humidity. With all the airflow you have plus very low humidity the plants are working way harder than they should be at this stage. Get a humidifier and try to get the humidity above 55% at a minimum until you get into mid flower. Do some reading on VPD which can give you some targets for maintaining the proper environment at each stage of growth. Here's a link to a chart where you can plug in the air temp, leaf surface temp and humidity and it will give you the VPD number you're running. Hope this helps some.

vpdchart.com

VPD Chart

Vapor pressure deficit (VPD) chart & calculator for horticulture in controlled environment. Cannabis, tomatoes, leafy greens, cucumber.
vpdchart.com vpdchart.com
 
D

Delps8

Well-Known Member
Hola - just chimed in re. the light.

Good that you've got an IR gun. Your offset for VPD is -2 because your plants are 2° cooler than ambient temps. That's common.

Big issue is that your VPD is brutal. You need to get a humidifier in there and/or lower the ambient temp.

Where are you located? I'm in SoCal so temp and humidity can sometimes be an issue. :-(

This site has good VPD info but there are plenty of other sources.
 
CadillacJack

CadillacJack

Well-Known Member
FirstCavApache64 said:
For vegging plants you want much more than 30% humidity. With all the airflow you have plus very low humidity the plants are working way harder than they should be at this stage. Get a humidifier and try to get the humidity above 55% at a minimum until you get into mid flower. Do some reading on VPD which can give you some targets for maintaining the proper environment at each stage of growth. Here's a link to a chart where you can plug in the air temp, leaf surface temp and humidity and it will give you the VPD number you're running. Hope this helps some.

vpdchart.com

VPD Chart

Vapor pressure deficit (VPD) chart & calculator for horticulture in controlled environment. Cannabis, tomatoes, leafy greens, cucumber.
vpdchart.com vpdchart.com
Click to expand...
My fan controller gives VPD readings. Just have to dial in. Adding humidifier in next hour
 
CadillacJack

CadillacJack

Well-Known Member
Delps8 said:
Hola - just chimed in re. the light.

Good that you've got an IR gun. Your offset for VPD is -2 because your plants are 2° cooler than ambient temps. That's common.

Big issue is that your VPD is brutal. You need to get a humidifier in there and/or lower the ambient temp.

Where are you located? I'm in SoCal so temp and humidity can sometimes be an issue. :-(

This site has good VPD info but there are plenty of other sources.
Click to expand...
Located in Portland. Humidity is typically much higher. Increased airflow to combat temp may be drying out tent. Adding humidifier within hour
 
D

Delps8

Well-Known Member
CadillacJack said:
Located in Portland. Humidity is typically much higher. Increased airflow to combat temp may be drying out tent. Adding humidifier within hour
Click to expand...
30% in Portland? 85° in Portland? Wow.

"My fan controller gives VPD readings. Just have to dial in." - if you've got their humidifier + controller that reads/controls VPD, you're all set. Great!

That combo saved me a huge number of hours that I spent fiddling with an Inbird RH controller to keep VPD in range. And it does an excellent job.

Re. the nutes - I just now read that you haven't added nutes but $$ to doughnuts, once you get VPD in range, things will look a whole lot better.
 
CadillacJack

CadillacJack

Well-Known Member
Delps8 said:
30% in Portland? 85° in Portland? Wow.

"My fan controller gives VPD readings. Just have to dial in." - if you've got their humidifier + controller that reads/controls VPD, you're all set. Great!

That combo saved me a huge number of hours that I spent fiddling with an Inbird RH controller to keep VPD in range. And it does an excellent job.

Re. the nutes - I just now read that you haven't added nutes but $$ to doughnuts, once you get VPD in range, things will look a whole lot better.
Click to expand...
My tent is in a bedroom. 85° because my light. The temp was 77° before I swapped the lights. Can't explain the humidity.
 
D

Delps8

Well-Known Member
CadillacJack said:
My tent is in a bedroom. 85° because my light. The temp was 77° before I swapped the lights. Can't explain the humidity.
Click to expand...
Wow, you hid a picture of your controller right in front of me…. ;-)

What model Controller is that?

You need to get more light on those plants. Some of the symptoms of plants that aren't getting much light are increased internodal space, sparse foliage, and they tend to be tall plants. Your plants have all of those characteristics. Large internodal space will result in colas that will tend to not "stack" (grow together) into one large cola - that's an aesthetic issue so perhaps no big deal. On the other hand sparse foliage = diminished yield and tall plants make it harder to grow an even canopy and/or make it hard to keep the plants from growing into the light.

The change in temp could well be a function of the fact that you're dumping about 2x the energy into the tent. Some thoughts - cannabis loves heat and light. 85 is optimal for photosynthesis (Google for the paper on CO2, light and temp by "Chandra") as long as the rest of the grow environment "is not a constraining factor" - ie. everything else is squared away.

If you can elevate RH/get VPD in range, the heat from the Gavita is a plus. OTOH, an advantage of swapping out the Gavita temporarily is that your ambient temp drops, so it may be easier to get RH up/VPD in range, and that may make it easier for these plants to recover. That could be a good move until you get the controller for the Gavita.

Thought I'd run that by you since it could solve a couple of problems for you.

And, at this point, the "light saturation point" for your grow is not the typical 800-1000µmols level. The "limiting factors" for your grow are VPD + a nute deficiency, so adding "lotsa light" should wait until they get back on track.
 
Budzbuddha

Budzbuddha

Well-Known Member
CadillacJack said:
Veg Day 7 update

My girls are not looking so healthy. I watered yesterday with 1.5 liters of brita filtered water. Runoff was 6.4pH. That was only the 2nd watering. First was on day 2.

Plants are droopy and showing signs of something wrong. I will try to find deficiency charts and identify the issue, but any advice would be greatly appreciated

Deficiency or operator error?
Click to expand...
This is my 2 pesos … there is no need to do Brita water. Happy Frog / fox farm ( same company ) utilize in medium buffers ( oyster shell ) and will buffer straight tap water.

Second , zero reason to check runoff.
Third , Do not water on a “ schedule “. Only water as needed. Plant will dictate how much time in days between before needing next watering. Plants look overwatered. Overwater can also cause deficiencies, things that may look like an issue but because roots are getting waterlogged and uptake interfered with. I would keep temps above 80° and lights out temp nominal.

The most obvious to me is the fabric pots sitting in a catch pan. They need to drain into the pan not sit in runoff.
The cheapest and easiest solution are these cheap plastic crates from Walmart …literally.
IMG_9898.jpeg

Those pots do not need to stay soggy - that will suffocate the roots. Plant needs oxygen ( hence the fabric bags - they breathe ) and will contribute to a more uniform wet-dry cycle.

Something like this.
IMG_4680.jpeg
 
CadillacJack

CadillacJack

Well-Known Member
Delps8 said:
Wow, you hid a picture of your controller right in front of me…. ;-)

What model Controller is that?

You need to get more light on those plants. Some of the symptoms of plants that aren't getting much light are increased internodal space, sparse foliage, and they tend to be tall plants. Your plants have all of those characteristics. Large internodal space will result in colas that will tend to not "stack" (grow together) into one large cola - that's an aesthetic issue so perhaps no big deal. On the other hand sparse foliage = diminished yield and tall plants make it harder to grow an even canopy and/or make it hard to keep the plants from growing into the light.

The change in temp could well be a function of the fact that you're dumping about 2x the energy into the tent. Some thoughts - cannabis loves heat and light. 85 is optimal for photosynthesis (Google for the paper on CO2, light and temp by "Chandra") as long as the rest of the grow environment "is not a constraining factor" - ie. everything else is squared away.

If you can elevate RH/get VPD in range, the heat from the Gavita is a plus. OTOH, an advantage of swapping out the Gavita temporarily is that your ambient temp drops, so it may be easier to get RH up/VPD in range, and that may make it easier for these plants to recover. That could be a good move until you get the controller for the Gavita.

Thought I'd run that by you since it could solve a couple of problems for you.

And, at this point, the "light saturation point" for your grow is not the typical 800-1000µmols level. The "limiting factors" for your grow are VPD + a nute deficiency, so adding "lotsa light" should wait until they get back on track.
Click to expand...

I may have jumped the gun on swapping the light. I really wanted to play with my new toy. I got it for $300 and was super stoked because it's been out of my price range since it dropped, so this sale seemed like a blessing.

I put my humidifier in. It's just a cheap little bedside one. RH currently up to 43%

I looked up that VPD site mentioned. According to that site, I should be around .75VPD. If I can get VPD in range, I'll slowly lower the lights as long as the plants don't get upset.

If I can't get the environment under control by wake up Monday, I'll swap the MarsHydro back in
 
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