Need advice on budget indoor setup.

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it's good to get facts and limit opinions (which vary a lot here), and ultimately learn by experience. I think you've got a good start, but will want probably 2 more lights for flowering (you'll be fine got veg with what you have), but heat may be an issue. Also if you haven't considered odor, you probably should.

But yeah, lots of good info on this site. Just remember there is a lot of uninformed opinions, myths, etc. So, be sure to keep that in mind.
Yea I know ay, thing is trying to determine which are facts or opinions. So for veg phase you say use 4 bulbs or go with 8? And yes I'm going to make a small carbon filter and attach it to the outlet fan from outside the grow area. Will use a curved pipe and fill it with carbon, just hoping the fan is strong enough to push the air through it. But I live in a large detached house and never really have anyone visit, not that they would come near the area I'm using, so not too concerned. Was actually thinking about odour though, and though, rather than eliminating the smell of the plant, what about altering the smell. So thought I might try and fill the homemade filter up with coffee beans or dried lavender, so as the air travels through it, the smell will alter to a nice fresh coffee or a natural lavender....just a thought :)
 

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
You've got a couple good points. There are some super particular/picky people growing, but also, most of them have some seriously good weed. This shit can be done fairly inexpensively, but with varying results. Also worth noting. Ive tried to save money by buying a cheaper version of a fan (for example), only to find out it doesn't perform well enough. So, I end up buying the really nice fan I was avoiding buying, and now I have a $30 fan I don't need, plus I had to buy the more expensive fan anyways. The point is, sometimes it's better to buy the more expensive, higher quality item.
Very true, I can agree to that
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
The more I read I get a little more disheartened due to,many people saying this is good then others saying it's not good. Sometimes you just don't know who's advice to follow.
I didn't catch what is perceived as "not good." But, it's not hard to grow. Keep it simple. The biggest challenge is learning to let the plant grow, not "killing the plant with kindness," reading the plant. It doesn't require anything sophisticated to get through that learning process. Just a good environment (well-drained, airy soil; balanced fertilizer; water at 150'ish ppm).

@GrowUrOwnDank tagged me about the LED lightbulbs I use. Your CFLs will work. They will generate considerable heat. But, in the winter that may be desirable.

If/when you buy more lights, I would try GE's BrightStik's. They're $3.50 (US) each. The reason I like these lights is that the diodes face forward (very efficient by design for directional lighting. See these teardown images.).

Efficiency of a light is confusing. Your cool-white CFLs produce 63 lumens per watt. That's fairly typical for CFL. The Cree LED lightbulbs I use are about 90 L/w (with the protective rubber gummy-film removed from the glass diffusion globe).

The problem with either of these lights is that they are omni directional. We want the light to go in one direction. So, those lumens are either lost or reflected in the desired direction. Reflecting light is a loss too.

That's why the GE BrightStik looks more efficient to me. I doubt the diodes themselves are more efficient than the Cree diodes. And, the product packaging (72 L/w) doesn't sound more efficient than the Cree lightbulb's packaging (84 L/w, but removing the gummy protective coating takes it up closer to 90 L/w). But, the way the diodes face forward, less light must be reflected. It also makes it less of a shock hazard to remove the plastic diffusion dome (which is a loss). For example, the Cree LED lightbulb has a tall metal tower (suspending a circle of diodes facing sideways). That begs for accidental contact. The way the GE's diodes are flush mounted to the base, there's very little risk of accidentally touching an electrified surface.

(Technically, you should power these with a CFI (ground-fault interrupter) outlet to be completely safe. But, the risk is so minimal/manageable with the surface deep within a reflector... I don't worry about it.).

I want to grow a plant exclusively with these to see how it goes. But, so far, measured in a reflector, these produce 20-25% more light than the equivalent 9.5w A19 Cree LED lightbulb. That makes them about 110 L/w (by comparison, mostly due to the design, I think.).

If you get some, be careful cutting off the plastic diffusor. You don't want to cut too deeply (too flush) with a hacksaw and hit any of those flush-mounted parts. You want to cut shallow all the way around.
 
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Joe Blows Trees

Well-Known Member
Hopefully you're getting some good info and ideas from all the responses and if you start a journal, I'll sub in on it and watch, learn, and contribute information so that you will be equipped with the knowledge to become a master grower.

Good luck, Happy New Year, and Grow Green! :weed:
 

J Bleezy

Well-Known Member
You could flower a plant with one of those bulbs if you REALLY wanted to, of course the yield would be terrible. It's really all up to you as there is no set light intensity that triggers it to flower. I'd keep adding more cfl's until it's at your desired temperature.
 

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
Hopefully you're getting some good info and ideas from all the responses and if you start a journal, I'll sub in on it and watch, learn, and contribute information so that you will be equipped with the knowledge to become a master grower.

Good luck, Happy New Year, and Grow Green! :weed:
yes im looking at doing a journal, not sure it will be day after day, but certainly every week :)
 

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
You could flower a plant with one of those bulbs if you REALLY wanted to, of course the yield would be terrible. It's really all up to you as there is no set light intensity that triggers it to flower. I'd keep adding more cfl's until it's at your desired temperature.
yea i see that ay. flower with any lumen or watt bulb, but yeild depends on the quality and power...now looking at a 250w hps and have done with it, as i feel, with how many of these small bulbs i need to add, im sure the cost and heat will be more than one 250hps...not to mention i dont have room to fit about 20 bulbs lol....anyone know where i can buy a decent one to ship to nz?
 

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
I didn't catch what is perceived as "not good." But, it's not hard to grow. Keep it simple. The biggest challenge is learning to let the plant grow, not "killing the plant with kindness," reading the plant. It doesn't require anything sophisticated to get through that learning process. Just a good environment (well-drained, airy soil; balanced fertilizer; water at 150'ish ppm).

@GrowUrOwnDank tagged me about the LED lightbulbs I use. Your CFLs will work. They will generate considerable heat. But, in the winter that may be desirable.

If/when you buy more lights, I would try GE's BrightStik's. They're $3.50 (US) each. The reason I like these lights is that the diodes face forward (very efficient by design for directional lighting. See these teardown images.).

Efficiency of a light is confusing. Your cool-white CFLs produce 63 lumens per watt. That's fairly typical for CFL. The Cree LED lightbulbs I use are about 90 L/w (with the protective rubber gummy-film removed from the glass diffusion globe).

The problem with either of these lights is that they are omni directional. We want the light to go in one direction. So, those lumens are either lost or reflected in the desired direction. Reflecting light is a loss too.

That's why the GE BrightStik looks more efficient to me. I doubt the diodes themselves are more efficient than the Cree diodes. And, the product packaging (72 L/w) doesn't sound more efficient than the Cree lightbulb's packaging (84 L/w, but removing the gummy protective coating takes it up closer to 90 L/w). But, the way the diodes face forward, less light must be reflected. It also makes it less of a shock hazard to remove the plastic diffusion dome (which is a loss). For example, the Cree LED lightbulb has a tall metal tower (suspending a circle of diodes facing sideways). That begs for accidental contact. The way the GE's diodes are flush mounted to the base, there's very little risk of accidentally touching an electrified surface.

(Technically, you should power these with a CFI (ground-fault interrupter) outlet to be completely safe. But, the risk is so minimal/manageable with the surface deep within a reflector... I don't worry about it.).

I want to grow a plant exclusively with these to see how it goes. But, so far, measured in a reflector, these produce 20-25% more light than the equivalent 9.5w A19 Cree LED lightbulb. That makes them about 110 L/w (by comparison, mostly due to the design, I think.).

If you get some, be careful cutting off the plastic diffusor. You don't want to cut too deeply (too flush) with a hacksaw and hit any of those flush-mounted parts. You want to cut shallow all the way around.
astounding info here, many thanks for your time. Im now feeling i may kick cfls in to touch and just go and buy a 250hps. i dont have room to install lots of bulbs and i think after i finished with them, the heat and cost will be more than 1 250w hps....so i think im splashing out.
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
You know i like your set up some things i would change though one being ventilation i would run passive intake ,, move pc fan from intake put it to exhaust end on top secondly being straight up i would get rid of the CFL's and replace them with sunblaster T5 Ho with nano reflectors there one cool cookie plug n play they come in 18" - 24" and 48 " lengths so i would probably purchase 5- 6 of them great thing is one plug connects all so clean
So if it was me i would run 8 of em 192 watts and get rid of the cheap attachment fire hazards

but thats just me

http://www.sunblasterlighting.com/t5-fixtures.php

Here what T5 Ho are capable of :)gallery_11738_4816_17019.jpg
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
i dont have room to install lots of bulbs
You don't need a lot of bulbs in that space. With the LED lightbulbs, about 20-25 watts per sq ft. That's 80-100 watts total. Say 8 - 10w bulbs (80w total two in each corner). Or, 4 of those and 4 Cree 18w PAR38 floods in the top corners as top light. That would be 112w total (28w/sq ft, which would be a lot of light with these efficient bulbs, especially spread around for better coverage).

I haven't used HID. But, I would be concerned that it will consume *a lot* of your vertical space. You'll probably have to run 50w/sq ft (or more). With the LED bulbs, you can literally grow it right to the ceiling.
 

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
You know i like your set up some things i would change though one being ventilation i would run passive intake ,, move pc fan from intake put it to exhaust end on top secondly being straight up i would get rid of the CFL's and replace them with sunblaster T5 Ho with nano reflectors there one cool cookie plug n play they come in 18" - 24" and 48 " lengths so i would probably purchase 5- 6 of them great thing is one plug connects all so clean
So if it was me i would run 8 of em 192 watts and get rid of the cheap attachment fire hazards

but thats just me

http://www.sunblasterlighting.com/t5-fixtures.php

Here what T5 Ho are capable of :)View attachment 3576724
thanks for your reply mate, im scrapping cfl now and going for a 250 hps or led...just looking on amazon now, but lots dont ship to my country, so annoying!....how you mean move intake exhaust? i already got intake and outake setup?...sorry im a newbie :)
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
You don't need a lot of bulbs in that space. With the LED lightbulbs, about 20-25 watts per sq ft. That's 80-100 watts total. Say 8 - 10w bulbs (80w total two in each corner). Or, 4 of those and 4 Cree 18w PAR38 floods in the top corners as top light. That would be 112w total (28w/sq ft, which would be a lot of light with these efficient bulbs, especially spread around for better coverage).

I haven't used HID. But, I would be concerned that it will consume *a lot* of your vertical space. You'll probably have to run 50w/sq ft (or more). With the LED bulbs, you can literally grow it right to the ceiling.
Or T5 and run them 1 inch from tops
 

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
You know i like your set up some things i would change though one being ventilation i would run passive intake ,, move pc fan from intake put it to exhaust end on top secondly being straight up i would get rid of the CFL's and replace them with sunblaster T5 Ho with nano reflectors there one cool cookie plug n play they come in 18" - 24" and 48 " lengths so i would probably purchase 5- 6 of them great thing is one plug connects all so clean
So if it was me i would run 8 of em 192 watts and get rid of the cheap attachment fire hazards

but thats just me

http://www.sunblasterlighting.com/t5-fixtures.php

Here what T5 Ho are capable of :)View attachment 3576724
nice plants by the way, id be happy to get a yeild like that
 

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
You don't need a lot of bulbs in that space. With the LED lightbulbs, about 20-25 watts per sq ft. That's 80-100 watts total. Say 8 - 10w bulbs (80w total two in each corner). Or, 4 of those and 4 Cree 18w PAR38 floods in the top corners as top light. That would be 112w total (28w/sq ft, which would be a lot of light with these efficient bulbs, especially spread around for better coverage).

I haven't used HID. But, I would be concerned that it will consume *a lot* of your vertical space. You'll probably have to run 50w/sq ft (or more). With the LED bulbs, you can literally grow it right to the ceiling.
yea im with you there mate, soooo undecided now, but looking at led panel lights on amazon, thinking low cost, more watt/lumen, much less heat...i know its costing more, but im thinking its worth it now and less hassle ect. know any places that ship to new zealand on amazon or ebay...looking at a 250w or 400w max
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
leave your intake hole open nothing there and put that pc fan that is there to the exhaust end so now with both fans sucking out hot air ,, it will naturally bring in same amount that is being exhausted out of box problem havings fans on both ends intake and exhaust is one may run faster or more efficent then other throwing out the balance but having both on exhaust end no matter what what ever gets sucked out same amount is being naturally forced in like a vacuum cleaner
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
or led...just looking on amazon now,
Be careful with inexpensive LEDs found on Amazon, eBay, (Mars Hydro, et. al.). They aren't good investments. They usually run as hot/inefficient as CFL or HID. If efficiency isn't important, then they aren't a lot of money to lose. But, T5HO and CMH will produce more useable light for less watts than those inexpensive LEDs. And, you can replace parts, etc., forever, using commoditized transformers, bulbs, etc.

With those, you'd have to run 40-60w/sq ft. At that point, T5HO at 40w/sq ft (and lifetime serviceability) is a better choice for shorter grows. CMH at 35-40w/sq ft is a better choice for taller grows (and again, serviceable for life).
 

J Bleezy

Well-Known Member
I think 4 feet of vertical space is plenty for a 250w hps. Granted the smallest I've used is 400w, but I'd probably run a 400w with 4 feet also.
You're getting some good info from a lot of people here though man, you should be on track in no time.
 

GrowUrOwnDank

Well-Known Member
yea i see that ay. flower with any lumen or watt bulb, but yeild depends on the quality and power...now looking at a 250w hps and have done with it, as i feel, with how many of these small bulbs i need to add, im sure the cost and heat will be more than one 250hps...not to mention i dont have room to fit about 20 bulbs lol....anyone know where i can buy a decent one to ship to nz?
Dude if your going to get a 250 watt HPS, which I like the idea, be sure and look for a 400 watt on eBay that is adjustable down to 1/2 the wattage. Problem with this idea is. Your going to have to hang that light in your cab. Which is going to take up valuable ceiling space since that light needs to be 12" above your plant. Your really going to have to balance things out to your limitations. Love the idea tho.
 

Sali-D

Well-Known Member
leave your intake hole open nothing there and put that pc fan that is there to the exhaust end so now with both fans sucking out hot air ,, it will naturally bring in same amount that is being exhausted out of box problem havings fans on both ends intake and exhaust is one may run faster or more efficient then other throwing out the balance but having both on exhaust end no matter what what ever gets sucked out same amount is being naturally forced in like a vacuum cleaner
that makes sense...the intake does run slower as i made it 9v and the outake 12v. If i put another fan at top, this makes it difficult to design a filter to go over them both, if you get me?
 
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