Naturally decarbed concentrate most medicinal oil IMHO

Just wanted to share this with everyone. Just put a gram aside and give it a try. The more I have been using it, the more I like it.

RSO is great and has served me well, but I believe I have found a better method of making oil for treating illness. I am sure it is much more medicinal and I know it provides a preferred buzz (medicated feeling) at least in my opinion.

When you harvest you don’t throw your buds right into the oven to quick dry them so you can start enjoying immediately right? Of course not, that would be degrading your medicine. I feel the same way about making oil.

There is no need to apply any heat whatsoever; it only causes damage to the end product (oil). I have verified this. Not with tests, but with consumption. I have been working with the same strains for many years so when there is a difference, I notice it.

I made a sap like QWISO/QWET hash. I wasn’t able to consume it within 90 days. I was using it for vaporizing. After I made the oil, every couple of weeks or so I would eat a dose just to see if it gave me a buzz. After about 90 days, all of a sudden it was fully decarbed and had taste to it. The buzz is superior to RSO, in my opinion it offers a more clean comfortable feeling. One pea size dose and I am totally baked for 5 hours and feel the effects for 24 hours. A better, higher, harmonic head buzz with awesome visual effects. I have never had this effect from oil. I like it, it is the whoop. Keep your QWET or whatnot like a sap and store it in syringes for 90 days in a dark place and give it a try. With no heat, all the terpines and other goodies are in there. I only dry it with a fan, no heat at all. Simply pour the solvent into a pyrex baking dish and evaporate the alcohol off with a fan blowing across the pan.

Just wanted to pass this along, you may want to give it a try. You can make very small batches if you wish. You can simply start off using ¼ ounce of bud or an ounce, it doesn’t make a difference. Just make sure you date it.

I consider this oil a naturally decarbed sap. It is important to keep it in a sap state so you will keep all the terpines and CBDs. The buzz effects are the best I have had.

This is a first impression. It has been 5 days of taking the naturally decarbed oil.

I wish I could have it tested side by side to my RSO. I used the exact same method of washing in solvent. The only difference is I use a fan to help the evaporation, no heat whatsoever. I prefer 190 proof or higher organic or grain alcohol. I believe this helps the oil to stay in a sap state and dissolves almost instantly in your mouth. It can also be made with 99% isopropyl alcohol or whatnot. I prefer the safer grain alcohol. (I don’t mind a little grain alcohol being left behind).

At the very least it is a great alternative for people who do not have access to a large quantity of buds or simply cannot afford a large quantity of buds or people that are not comfortable having to boil off the solvent outside. Yes you have to wait at least 90 days for it to decarb, but if you need to you can decarb a small amount for immediate use by simply heating it in a rice cooker, frying pan, double boiler set up, etc. It will get you by until the main batch has naturally decarbed.

I will be discussing more about this oil on my blog. After trying it, that is what I will probably be taking from now on (the rest of my life).

I love RSO, but I am definitely preferring fully naturally (no heat) decarbed oil

Peace and God bless

Edit: Yesterday I only took one tiny drop, around 11 am. and 8 am today, I am still pretty high! It stays consistent.

Very interesting GG. It seems like the trick would be getting it before it dried to much. My qwiso-type product comes out much too dry to get into a syringe. Which raises a few thoughts:
1.) would aging it drier have the same impact, like a fine wine
2.) seems like this would only work if using safe-to-consume alcohol. If leaving it this wet, seems like maybe not safe if using ISO. Or do you think the remaining ISO evaps out in the syringe?

I am using 100% ethanol now. I have done two batches now. I went longer on my washes during the second (about 90 seconds vs about 45) and it seemed to work better. I go back and forth in my preference between RSO and non-heated mixes in my vape solution.

So you think a Vape solution made when the ISO is fresh would get better with age? I ask that because after reading this post I pondered and it does seem like some of mine is getting more potent but maybe just me...

I will give this a shot on my next run!

GrowinDad:


you have brought up some good points and I don't have all of the answers. I have just recently discovered and confirmed that naturally decarbing works great, but I don't have it all figured out. To your #2 point, I agree for the most part, but I do offer a solution to that problem. Transfer the concentrate into a small vial with the cover off, stir around with a toothpick a couple times a day until the alcohol has evaporated out. Leaving an iso concentrate with solvent not fully evaporated in a syringe can take a good one or two years for the alcohol to evaporate when in a cool dark place.

I have some RSO that I stored in syringes, then into a sealed jar. Those have not changed in over a year and a half now. However, that concentrate does not have all of the essential terpines. Extra heat was applied to suck it up into the syringes.

I too prefer 190 proof or higher grain alcohol for the consumption reasons.

For example: I don't know about letting it dry all the way like shatter. Hopefully people will contribute and report whether or not the shatter has the same effects.

I must say, with the naturally decarbed oil that I have, I cannot picture it getting more potent. One drop a day and I feel the effects for 24 hours. Keep in mind, I always use the cream of my crops to make oil.

Well, I wasted about an hour and a half of my time to put together some information for you and others. I will just have to leave a link to my blog that is at another site. I tried to break my post up into two pieces, but the character limits would still not allow it. I was trying to avoid this out of respect for RIU. Unfortunately, it is unavoidable. Once the site changeover occurred, my blog here is not like it was.

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/blog/532/entry-1098-rso-qwiso-qwet-and-naturally-decarbed-sap-concentrates-by-grow-goddess/

Didn't really read. Just felt like posting.
Yea a natural decarb is by far the best way.
Making your oil after curing your bud for 4 months is the shit...

I bought a handheld mixer and the attachments fit inside of a glass vial. I used on last batch of e-juice and it seemed to reduce separation significantly. But curious about PEG vs PG as well.

Thanks as always!

qwizoking said:

Didn't really read. Just felt like posting.
Yea a natural decarb is by far the best way.
Making your oil after curing your bud for 4 months is the shit...

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I prefer to naturally "cure" or decarb the oil vs. the buds. Buds start degrading the second you cut them down, especially in CBD since they are not being replenished. CBDs are degrading the entire growth of the plant, but during the growth state they are replenishing faster than degrading. After the buds are dried, it is best to put it into an oil state as soon as possible if you want to preserve CBDs and other medicinal values of the marijuana plant.

Who told you this?

Also being that its in a mass vs trichs all over the plant, curing that way is extremely inefficient

qwizoking said:

Who told you this?

Also being that its in a mass vs trichs all over the plant, curing that way is extremely inefficient

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Who told me thid? I am shocked! Obviously you have not done much reading about growing and cultivating plants. I learned this information back in the 80's. I will tell you who told me. Somebody that knows a lot more about growing than you or I. Mel Frank. If that is not good enough for you, again, you are obviously a beginner.

Here is one of two books. This one is from the 80's. The other book I have by him was published in the 70's.


I have also read the same information in other books and magazines. Have you ever read a good reputable book about marijuana written by a reputable author or do you only use information via google and wikipedia? Please enlighten me.


Edit: I purchased the book pictured at Hash Bash Ann Arbor, MI in 1989

lmao....

Grow Goddess said:

Who told me thid? I am shocked! Obviously you have not done much reading about growing and cultivating plants. I learned this information back in the 80's. I will tell you who told me. Somebody that knows a lot more about growing than you or I. Mel Frank. If that is not good enough for you, again, you are obviously a beginner.

Here is one of two books. This one is from the 80's. The other book I have by him was published in the 70's.
View attachment 3210547

I have also read the same information in other books and magazines. Have you ever read a good reputable book about marijuana written by a reputable author or do you only use information via google and wikipedia? Please enlighten me.


Edit: I purchased the book pictured at Hash Bash Ann Arbor, MI in 1989

Click to expand...

What exactly are you trying to argue?
What Qwizo just said was accurate, the trichomes will undergo the same change on or off the plant.
When your trichomes are dissolved only the surface of the concentrate is going to be able to undergo the same oxidation as the trichomes, therefore the natural decarb would be more efficient/faster than decarbing in oil form.

Blunter the kid said:

What exactly are you trying to argue?
What Qwizo just said was accurate, the trichomes will undergo the same change on or off the plant.
When your trichomes are dissolved only the surface of the concentrate is going to be able to undergo the same oxidation as the trichomes, therefore the natural decarb would be more efficient/faster than decarbing in oil form.

Click to expand...

The discussion was about naturally decarbing oil. QK said "curing' buds for 4 months is decarbing. Those buds are exposed to the elements compared to liquid sealed in a syringe or vial.

Just the trichs? I don't have an opinion on that.

Then again, you could be right. I must add that the degradation would probably be faster than the decarbing rate. At least when it comes to the CBDs and other beneficial qualities of the buds. I am confident in this in experience and research.


Edit: So to get this straight. You are saying that storing bud for long term is a better preservation than storing in oil form? I must disagree.

The discussion was about decarbing? I said cure...and yes they will decarb naturally in that time frame, and cure faster, more efficiently.
Exposed to elements? Just oxygen, which is necessary for the cure
Cbd is significantly more stable than thc , nothing is degraded here


As to your edit. When did I say that? I've posted manystudies of resin sshelf life in and out of solution. Yes its the best way to store long term?

Grow Goddess said:

The discussion was about naturally decarbing oil. QK said "curing' buds for 4 months is decarbing. Those buds are exposed to the elements compared to liquid sealed in a syringe or vial.

Just the trichs? I don't have an opinion on that.

Then again, you could be right. I must add that the degradation would probably be faster than the decarbing rate. At least when it comes to the CBDs and other beneficial qualities of the buds. I am confident in this in experience and research.


Edit: So to get this straight. You are saying that storing bud for long term is a better preservation than storing in oil form? I must disagree.

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Well when I cure my buds they are not exposed to the elements, they are in jars.
But if your theory is correct in that it takes 4 months to naturally decarb your oil, why do you seem to think the same doesn't apply to the cannabinoids and terpenes when they are still on the buds?

I didn't storage is worse in oil form, it's obvious that if your oil is in a mass, a great deal of it will not degrade or oxidize because the top layer of concentrate will protect the rest. If I'm not mistaken, curing requires oxygen to be in contact with the buds otherwise the trichomes and their chemical composition undergo no changes, my theory is that no oxygen can penetrate the surface of your oil so it undergoes no chemical change for sitting that long.
I think your using "cure" and "decarb" as if it's the same thing and it caused some confusion.

Blunter the kid said:

Well when I cure my buds they are not exposed to the elements, they are in jars.
But if your theory is correct in that it takes 4 months to naturally decarb your oil, why do you seem to think the same doesn't apply to the cannabinoids and terpenes when they are still on the buds?

I didn't storage is worse in oil form, it's obvious that if your oil is in a mass, a great deal of it will not degrade or oxidize because the top layer of concentrate will protect the rest. If I'm not mistaken, curing requires oxygen to be in contact with the buds otherwise the trichomes and their chemical composition undergo no changes, my theory is that no oxygen can penetrate the surface of your oil so it undergoes no chemical change for sitting that long.
I think your using "cure" and "decarb" as if it's the same thing and it caused some confusion.

Click to expand...

I think Blunter may have a point, there does seem to be some interchangeability in the use of “cure” and “decarboxylation”. In these threads, it sometimes becomes difficult to sort out what got said, and then misinterpreted by whom.

The decarboxylation process requires heat of some sort for the reaction to occur. If you were to stick your unconverted acid product into a dark refrigerator, whether it is flower or oil, it will remain that way for a very long time. Energy is required to break the COOH bond.

Think of this process as being similar to a specific heat problem, you can calculate the required energy for a given process, but it doesn’t tell you anything about the rate of change.

GG, I think what you’re doing with your “natural” decarbed process is “cooking” the CO2 off real slow, using heat from the environment. This gives you a better handle on when to stop, and as a result, your not likely to vaporize as many of the terps. In theory, you should be able to accomplish the same effect with a very fine controllable heat source.

My definition of curing is simply the drying process of the flower; unless you’re baking your stuff at elevated temps it’s not really doing much re the conversion of the acids to neutral. Typically only a few percent. Now if you leave it out lying around in sun for a considerable length of time, that’s a whole different story. But like Blunter said, most people jar or package it after it’s reached a targeted moisture content. The composition of the gaseous environment isn’t as important as the fact that it is circulating and slightly heated. Typically, we use air combined with a small amount of heat to evaporate the moisture out of the vegetable matter. I typically don’t go over 80 deg F and try to stay around 75 F. I suppose some folks may attempt to “decarb” by letting the plants hang and dry for extended periods of time, but I suspect, most go to the jars after a hitting their moisture target. Especially if the goal is "top shelf" flower.

Recently, I've decided to convert the flower to concentrate because of ease of storage. Decarboxylation becomes an application specific task after the fact. But like Qwiz, I don’t want to wait all that long --- I like controllable heat sources.

GG I will say, I think I’m headed down your path of “seeing oil in all them plants”.

Cheers.

Thca in stored in a typical curing environment at room temp can have a half life as low as 35 days. Letting your bud cure for an appropriate length of time will decarb as well as cyclicize and oxidize terpenes. Without the loss that would come from an open decarb say via double boil. With increased heat comes decreased efficiency, decarbing in this manner preserves more thc and active cannabinoids in their preffered state, less cbn, less conversion to other products such as delta 8..

As to curing its far from simply the drying process of the plant
Yes I copied my post from a different thread so it doesn't quite fit

keeping the plant moist enough to stay alive and still maintain gass transfer keeping stomatas open..through this natural process of hydrolysis and respiration the components are broken down and becomes smooth..this process is known as the cure.
We do this with many crops, sweet potatoes tobacco etc etc

Night and day difference in curing ..
Reduction in Chlorophyll content, doesn't taste like smoking veggies
Reduction in plant starch content,and sugars, creating a smooth smoke that will just expand nicely in your lungs, won't even feel it go down
Reduction in nitrate levels,less carcinogenic, always good right and cleaner high/taste
polycyclic aromatization and oxidation of terpenoids altering the flavor profile more robust with a lower ppm sensory threshold , less perfumey even soapy or "green" from corresponding aldehydes and ketones
Reduction of and consistent moisture content, even slow burn and no smoldering or black ash unwilling to burn

qwizoking said:

As to curing its far from simply the drying process of the plant
Yes I copied my post from a different thread so it doesn't quite fit

keeping the plant moist enough to stay alive and still maintain gass transfer keeping stomatas open..through this natural process of hydrolysis and respiration the components are broken down and becomes smooth..this process is known as the cure.
We do this with many crops, sweet potatoes tobacco etc etc

Night and day difference in curing ..
Reduction in Chlorophyll content, doesn't taste like smoking veggies
Reduction in plant starch content,and sugars, creating a smooth smoke that will just expand nicely in your lungs, won't even feel it go down
Reduction in nitrate levels,less carcinogenic, always good right and cleaner high/taste
polycyclic aromatization and oxidation of terpenoids altering the flavor profile more robust with a lower ppm sensory threshold , less perfumey even soapy or "green" from corresponding aldehydes and ketones
Reduction of and consistent moisture content, even slow burn and no smoldering or black ash unwilling to burn

Click to expand...

Qwiz,

So, you and GG were pretty much in agreement just a semantic issue.
The point is that decarbing takes energy. GG sounds like she is using room heat.

Question, what do you mean by “cyclicize and oxidizing of terpenes”?
That half-life number is interesting, where’d you get it?

This concept of “preservation” of THC is so subjective. What might be good for one, might not be worth the effort for another. Obviously there’s more to it than just preserving THC.

You don’t have a source for a “quantitative” discussion, do you? If you do, would you mind posting? For as long as this plant has been around, you’d think more quantitative vs anecdotal information would be easily available.

I’m starting to move away from flower for lot’s of reasons, but primarily because I don’t want to deal with the PAH’s. Going straight to concentrate makes a lot of sense for me. Your second post is what I called the “drying flower” process, I didn’t intend to trivialize it. That stuff has been pretty well documented, and it's the motivation for "top-shelf" guys to take so much care. However, from a concentrate point of view, it doesn't really offer anything to the process of the glandular head content that you can’t do post gland extraction.

To be honest, when it comes to post processing of concentrates, my experience is that you really have to “cook” your stuff badly to loose efficacy --- but then maybe, I’m just not much of a “connoisseur”. Haha!

Regards

Too bad my thread got hijacked by thread trolls. I was planning on sharing more experience, upcoming test comparisons, and whatnot. Oh well.

Taking a post from someone else is considered proof eh? Sounded more like an opinion to me. Probably does hold some truth though on slowing down the degradation.

the proof is in the pudden. It is obvious. During the degradation process, it is crystallized at this point, or was it magic? Thanks for posting that though, I will try to make sure I convert my buds to oil before it crystallizes.

God1: This is for you. I know you asked QK, but here is what I have. As you can see the degrading takes place even while the plant is alive, in vegetative and flower states. CBD, THC, the works.


From now on, I am drying the buds, jarring them, and making into oil within 4 weeks of jarring. Keeping strains separate and mix as desired. Made to order so to speak. I still have a lot more learning to do when it comes to natural decarbing and narrowing it down to what works best.

Over 30 grams of QWISO right after making


Just took this picture today. What is left of the 30+ grams. Just sat in the cup in syringes in a dark place.


It was about at this point, 90 days after making, I ate a small dose and noticed it had taste for the first time. The QWISO was winterized. I stopped taking a dose of RSO everyday from then on and switched to the naturally decarbed oil. I am sure it is missing a lot of goodies since it was winterized, but as of now, this is the best oil I have ever had. One drop size dose a day, gets me over baked when I get home. I still feel a buzz when I get home the next day when it is time to take the next drop. I think I might need to dilute it. With my RSO, a dose the same does not last the full 24 hours for me, close, but not quite, and the buzz is a little different too. The natural decarbed oil seems cleaner. It increases my appetite, helps me sleep better, and provides awesome visual effects.

QK, I think you are scaring people away from contributing with your BS.

Edit: The difference between drying and curing, I am quite familiar with that. I started experimenting with curing 14 years ago. Placing buds, right on the boarder line of too wet to smoke, into jars for 30 days without opening. That is kind of nick named Wacky Weed. I got that from an old High Times Magazine. It is easy to mess it up and it to get moldy. Storing buds, dry or wet, strain to strain has a different shelf life based upon my experience.

Who's a troll?

Grow Goddess said:

Too bad my thread got hijacked by thread trolls. I was planning on sharing more experience, upcoming test comparisons, and whatnot. Oh well.

Taking a post from someone else is considered proof eh? Sounded more like an opinion to me. Probably does hold some truth though on slowing down the degradation.

the proof is in the pudden. It is obvious. During the degradation process, it is crystallized at this point, or was it magic? Thanks for posting that though, I will try to make sure I convert my buds to oil before it crystallizes.

God1: This is for you. I know you asked QK, but here is what I have. As you can see the degrading takes place even while the plant is alive, in vegetative and flower states. CBD, THC, the works.
View attachment 3212173 View attachment 3212174

From now on, I am drying the buds, jarring them, and making into oil within 4 weeks of jarring. Keeping strains separate and mix as desired. Made to order so to speak. I still have a lot more learning to do when it comes to natural decarbing and narrowing it down to what works best.

Over 30 grams of QWISO right after making
View attachment 3212175

Just took this picture today. What is left of the 30+ grams. Just sat in the cup in syringes in a dark place.
View attachment 3212176

It was about at this point, 90 days after making, I ate a small dose and noticed it had taste for the first time. The QWISO was winterized. I stopped taking a dose of RSO everyday from then on and switched to the naturally decarbed oil. I am sure it is missing a lot of goodies since it was winterized, but as of now, this is the best oil I have ever had. One drop size dose a day, gets me over baked when I get home. I still feel a buzz when I get home the next day when it is time to take the next drop. I think I might need to dilute it. With my RSO, a dose the same does not last the full 24 hours for me, close, but not quite, and the buzz is a little different too. The natural decarbed oil seems cleaner. It increases my appetite, helps me sleep better, and provides awesome visual effects.

QK, I think you are scaring people away from contributing with your BS.

Edit: The difference between drying and curing, I am quite familiar with that. I started experimenting with curing 14 years ago. Placing buds, right on the boarder line of too wet to smoke, into jars for 30 days without opening. That is kind of nick named Wacky Weed. I got that from an old High Times Magazine. It is easy to mess it up and it to get moldy. Storing buds, dry or wet, strain to strain has a different shelf life based upon my experience.

Click to expand...

GG,
I certainly didn’t intent to hijack your thread.
I found the topic interesting and was attempting to give a perspective from a thermal point of view.

Essentially, both the decarb and curing process are nothing more than thermal rate problems. It’s the varied composition of essential oil that makes decarboxylation interesting. During the curing process, you find people going through all kinds of weird gyrations trying to make the thermals work.

Obviously I didn’t do a very good job of explaining that.

Indeed, if you had the proper instrumentation, you could capture in real time, (in a quantitative fashion), the changes you’re describing and plot the rate of change as a function of temperature.

Anyway, I encourage you to continue on with the sharing of your experiences.

Regards