Mycorrhiza Fungi...why you should get to know them...

lol smh.

Pattahabi said:

Except that it's filled with trichoderma spores which will inhibit the root colonization of the mycorrhizae.
P-

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They don't outright battle one another which is a minor disinformation finding its way around the internet (in truth they are ideally symbiotic), if there is enough woody matter in the soil the trich will generally take to it.

Trichoderma species are frequently isolated from forest or agricultural soils at all latitudes. Hypocrea species are most frequently found on bark or on decorticated wood but many species grow on bracket fungi (e.g. H. pulvinata), Exidia (H. sulphurea) or bird's nest fungi (H. latizonata) or agarics (H. avellanea).

Personally I feel it best to separate the trichoderma from the endo to let it populate a woody mixture first then introduce it to the endo myc mix for a balanced population which in turn fastens directly to its biological counterpart in the root > tissue of cannabis. This type of symbiosis and balance in the fungi has shown in studies of woody plants a transference of nitrogen to surrounding embryophyta via Hartig net.

so then how would you go by doing that then?

Allow trich and ecto to populate woody associated amendments separately from a proprietary soil the plant grows in which would have endo mycs. Populate mulch and/or compost separately from proprietary soil then combine once you feel fungal activity is established within each on their own away from one another. Chances are they won't hate on each other if they are up to duty as usual minding their own business. If still paranoid about any disasters or lack of symbiosis take the typical route and top dress with trich/ecto affected mulch or compost.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00572-003-0240-y

Abstract
The interaction between Trichoderma pseudokoningii (Rifai) 511, 2212, 741A, 741B and 453 and the arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi Glomus mosseae (Nicol. & Gerd.) Gerdemann & Trappe BEG12 and Gigaspora rosea Nicolson & Schenck BEG9 were studied in vitro and in greenhouse experiments. All T. pseudokoningii strains inhibited the germination of G. mosseae and Gi. rosea except the strain 453, which did not affect the germination of Gi. rosea.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0038071794902186?np=y

Abstract
The effect of inoculation with the saprophytic fungi Trichoderma koningii and Fusarium solani on maize (Zea mays) and lettuce (Lactuca sativa) with or without arbuscular mycorrhizal (AM) colonization by Glomus mosseae was studied in a greenhouse trial. Plant dry wt of non-AM inoculated maize and lettuce were unaffected by the presence of T. koningii and F. solani. In contrast, T. koningii decreased plant dry wt and AM colonization when inoculated into the rhizosphere before or at the same time as G. mosseae.

Yes this is what occurs when the fungi are placed head to head, but nature isn't a battleground between the two when one has live or woody plant remnant in a compound for the trichoderma and/or ecto mycorrhiza to populate i.e. compost/mulch (pre-soil mix), so if you start by separating the various fungi as is the case in nature within a hyphal network the relationship of trichoderma and mycorrhizal associations is logical and in truth benefit from one another so long as one is segregating their specific role and asset from the start. The scholarly study on ecto and NPK tranference is rare as are controlled tests on populated live or deadwood relationships between trichoderma's surface role and endo at the vascular level; keyword mutualistic.

We can find these fungal colonies working together in nature in forests time and time again, they are not enemies nor is trichoderma a villain. What I am trying to express is a consensus wherein companies who are packaging a fungi gangbang of trichoderma, endo and ecto mycorrhiza are defeating nature's purpose by placing them in the octagon against one another. I agree this brand of product is a failure, yet in the mad rush to debunk corporate ideology raw science need not perish.

I realize the two can work together mutualistically in nature. However, as you said,

"What I am trying to express is a consensus wherein companies who are packaging a fungi gangbang of trichoderma, endo and ecto mycorrhiza are defeating nature's purpose by placing them in the octagon against one another."

Which is exactly what I said in the post you quoted. I never said trichoderma was a bad guy. I said I would avoid mykos products with millions of trichoderma spores.

P-

Forgive me, not meant as an overreaction. There is a great deal of dialogue among growers leaning towards trichoderma being detrimental. I somewhat allude to your remark: "I'm pretty adamant about finding mycorrhizae products that do not contain large trichoderma counts (preferably no trichoderma) due to a couple studies I have seen where the trichoderma inhibit root colonization of VAM."

I didn't want to presuppose you are going about separating fungi because such a practice can come across tedious or overkill. Most of the dialogue I run across surrounds mycorrhiza vs. trichoderma and I do apoligize for assuming you avoid them based on the inhibition you mentioned.

MJtheIndicator said:

Forgive me, not meant as an overreaction. There is a great deal of dialogue among growers leaning towards trichoderma being detrimental. I somewhat allude to your remark: "I'm pretty adamant about finding mycorrhizae products that do not contain large trichoderma counts (preferably no trichoderma) due to a couple studies I have seen where the trichoderma inhibit root colonization of VAM."

I didn't want to presuppose you are going about separating fungi because such a practice can come across tedious or overkill. Most of the dialogue I run across surrounds mycorrhiza vs. trichoderma and I do apoligize for assuming you avoid them based on the inhibition you mentioned.

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No, worries, I was just clarifying my position. I understand your point. Trichoderma are definitely beneficial to a plant. It's the mass amount of trichoderma spores they put in the mykos products which I keep a close eye on. I was in the grow store a few months ago and picked up a bottle of 'mycos madness' from humboldt nutrients. Madness sure was an accurate descriptor!

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Mycorrhiza:
Endomycorrhiza/cc
Glomus aggregatum……………………8 spores per cc
Glomus intraradices……………………8 spores per cc
Glomus mosseae……………………….8 spores per cc
Glomus entunicatum…………………...8 spores per cc
Glomus monosporum………………..…2 spores per cc
Glomus deserticola…………………..…2 spores per cc
Glomus clarum…………………………2 spores per cc
Tricoderma:
Trichoderma koningii 187,000 spores per cc
Trichoderma harzianum 187,000 spores per cc


I'm no microbiologist, but I'd say those glomus strains have an uphill battle.

My 2¢

P-

For bonsai pine soil mix their attempt might work, but for cannabis and particularly in regards to harzanium its best to segregate. Prize pumpkin growers have been separating colonies for some time now and introducing them once established with great results.

@DonPetro What about our myco bro, do you know the brand or if it is Trichoderma free? REESPECT!!

DonTesla said:

@DonPetro What about our myco bro, do you know the brand or if it is Trichoderma free? REESPECT!!

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Shit not sure man. I can do some digging.

awesome info guys thanks. I now know how to better avoid the junk and know the shop guys are just spewing bs lol
I have some mycos off BAS and got some with trichoderma off fungiperfecti. They don't give thespore count on their website but ill be getting it monday and let yall know. im sure the one off BAS is top notch. crazy amount of myco spores 132/gram. 4 different strains

ok so the one from fungi perfecti. myco grow soluble has a lot of shit lemme put up a pic

Myco Grow Soluble:

the brand product extreme mykos only has 80 spores per gram of one strain.. glomus intraradices.

What yall think? Would it be a bad idea to innoculate with all 3? Not at the same though...

Idk. Cause the myco grow is really really low in glomus.. so I feel itd be better to wait after innoculating with mycos from BAS and then use the other with rhizos and trichoderma? how long should I wait?

Kalyx said:

Most cal mag products are synthetic. An organic one (GO, Biomin Ca, fulmag) would be a gentler option. Also dilute the product into your water before adding your myco product.

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Me at not all. C'mon. There is many resources with cal mag in them

ASMALLVOICE said:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have read that it is best to stop adding mycor right close to flowering or maybe just a week into, as once a colony has been established say early on in the veg stage, they will have done most of the good they are gonna do by 3 weeks into flower and once the blooming nutes hit, the higher P and K seems to harm or wipe them out or at least they don't like it from what I have read.
Looking for some feedback for sure, cause them little buggers can be expensive, in more ways than one.

Peace and Great Grows

Asmallvoice

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Once th root is established and your in flowering, do you want theplant to work on roots or flowers?

Great White is one of the best - Also look at Aryzon by Extreme Garden use both really give good results