MY True HP Aero Plug&Play Pods

auto22 said:

if you think asking for a pic of a system without anything in it is immature or that the government might come after you if you did because its cutting edge science then your either need to put down the pipe or seek some professional help. i guess the government must be watching the companies that sell these systems like Atomix and biocontrols. yea ive read the thread but your argument doesnt hold water. im new to this site but i see whereever you are there is controversity so no sense in trying to make a point with you. continue your consiracy theories to avoid the truth.
I suppose the government is watching the 2 people who did post pics of thier systems. have a nice life living in your dream world.

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You both have a point, but anything you say or post can and will be used against you in any future legal troubles, and certain people may or may not have already had absolutely enough of it with legal troubles to take even the slightest of stupid chances.

We can all build copies of these and run them from what the guys have posted, it just takes drive enough to do the research and these guys that have done the hard work don't feel obligated to spoon feed those unwilling to help themselves.

Understandable.

Besides, you couldn't just build it and run it from the most basic plans without going through these threads fully anyway to actually learn what the fuck you're doing.

Thank them for even posting at all.

okay, anyway enough talk about your big brother!

I was wondering if any of you tried adding LP-misters/sprinklers to the bottom of root chamber?

I read of talk of it but nothing else?

Fatman I understand what you were saying about the short inter-node growth and such caused by the "more efficient nutrient uptake"

Question?

In plants is all the root meant to function the same?
I mean the upper roots in nature gather more oxygen, with lower rooter less?

Would the tap roots be more efficient in a different environment???

I like the screen idea?

would a 3 tier root chamber work better?

you could use larger screen or mare of a 1/8 x 1/8 square mesh,
with a smaller or finer screen below with hopes of causing the roots to grow tap roots?


I am no science major of plant guy so i am just basing this on assumptions?


Read the thread their is a lot of good ideas!

Maybe the answers are in the tag information thread?

What timer you using?

I have found this, looks good value for money, 89€

http://www.g-systems.eu/en/water_timer.html

Hi Paglia
That timer look good as it provides independant day and night cycle timing, the price isn`t too bad. Its a shame it doesn`t go lower than one second but other than that its ideal
The timers i have are homebrewed with a range of 0.27sec - 1.8 sec for the mist pulse and 30sec-7mins for the pause.

OregonMeds said:

Besides, you couldn't just build it and run it from the most basic plans without going through these threads fully anyway to actually learn what the fuck you're doing.

Thank them for even posting at all.

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Thanks to anyone willing to risk their ass to post info.. I truly do appreciate it, what you have posted IS enough and I can build my system but you have posted. So much info out there by you guys, just thanks.. Anything else you post is the cherries

Atomizer said:

Hi Paglia
That timer look good as it provides independant day and night cycle timing, the price isn`t too bad. Its a shame it doesn`t go lower than one second but other than that its ideal
The timers i have are homebrewed with a range of 0.27sec - 1.8 sec for the mist pulse and 30sec-7mins for the pause.

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Me same but is hard to fine tuning, you have the same times also in the dark period?

I had a question about a a company that uses a rotary atomizer has anyone used one of these. I need to start building a chamber and am trying to do it the cheapest way with the best results.They say it will fog a 15x15 ft chamber. I was thinking about deep individual runners with separate air assisted atomizers this would be expensive and high maintenance. So I am rethinking the build. With this sprayer I could build a 4ftwidex8ft longx2ft deep with 1 sprayer in the middle to feed them all.No pressurized tanks or air compressors just a pump and the electric motor that spins the atomizer. It would be drain to waste.Here is the web site looking for feed back on what you think especially fatmans input www.ledebuhr.net
they say the micron spectrum can be customized. I can get a 40-50 micron atomizer made is this the best range for nutrient delivery? Any advice will be greatly appreciated thanx.
http://www.ledebuhr.net/

if you want more control than that .........oh forget it you guys are taliking about 40-50 micron size that might as well be hydro. The atomizer that i use is 6-11 micron.

Im trying to see what micron size I should be trying for. If I know which is most effective from what people have tried I can shoot for that.With 6-11 micron what atomizers are you using. Do you have any clogging issues with them. just trying to learn a little. thanx

6-11 micron is too small, aim for the majority of droplets at 50microns. The discs don`t clog like nozzles but you still have to clean them occasionally. They would be ok for very large, room sized root chambers.
Have a listen to the noise they generate at 10,000-20,000rpm before buying one..they`re not exactly stealthy

I have more fine root hairs than you can get so my micron size is not to small. Also a water droplet out of a sprinkler head is 50 like the easy cloner its a mist but still to much. And nothing gets clogged at 6-11 micron if you know what your doing

zero hey buddy go to bete fog its the same ones that atomix used to carry before they went out of business cause they were charging to much. But hey if your trying to go cheap this is not for you because it is expensive.. You also need to be careful choosing a nutrient you want something very clean with little salt build up.. Also a hint when you get your micron size down that low you only need about 200ppm

Oh no are we going to have a disagreement or a fight?

How would 6-11 micron be ok if 5 micron from a simple cheap fogger isn't ok still?
Or is it? I thought there was a problem with nutrient delivery with foggers still.

Fatman are you just not saying anything to avoid blowing up?

Wow a live TAG thread, finaly found one!!!!!! Hi all,

Im trying to build a TAG with a jetwasher and large header tank at about 1500psi, still planing/acquiring any advise?

Any clue where someone can buy 5-50 micron, non-drip, 1500psi spray heads as its starting to give me headaches? (I'll get back to lookin at the 100 pages!!!!)

Lets see. NASA spent many millions of dollars on research into air atomized and high pressure aeroponics. The reserchers determined clearly that water droplet sizing of 50 microns is most efficient.

Atomix sold an air atomized system that could be adjusted by changing the nozzle tip to allow the majority of water droplets in the 30 to 80 micron size (805%) with no droplets smaller than 5 micron. Atomix never sold a atomix chamber system nozzle that was set up to deliver the majority of its water droplets in the 6 to 11 micron size as claimed by Northerlights#5Haze. Atomix sold out to an American Company. They did not go out of business due to high prices etc. The U.S. Patent Application Publication clearly states the droplet micron size for the atomix atomizer as being designed to produce droplets between 30 and 80 microns.

The reason that foggers do not work well is aslso spelled out in the atomix patent and in NASA reports. Here is a few lines from the 2009 recent U.S. patent application publication for the aeromix type system.

"Aeroponic systems suffer from the disadvantage of producing the right size of droplets and in the right air to water ratio that is required to maintain a constant state of effective aeroponic growth while also meeting the liquid requirements of horticulture. Aeroponic systems that produce water droplets below 30 microns fail to achieve continuous aeroponic growth due to the need to supply droplets in such a high concentration that liquid saturation occurs whilst meeting the liquid requirement of horticulture. Very small droplets, such as 5-20 microns, need to be supplied in extremely high densities otherwise they cannot provide enough water to grow a plant. However, such a high concentration of very small virtually prevents air from getting to the roots and thus they may die unless the system is turned off periodically in order to allow the roots to dry and gain access to air. Thus, aeroponic systems with droplets below 30 micron tend to be operated with a clear on and off period due to this saturation. Aeroponic systems that produce droplets above 100 microns are also capable of continuous aeroponic growth due to a rapid saturation that is caused by droplets of this size."

"Ultrasonic systems are capable of producing very fine liquid particles of a sized smaller than 30 micron but they are also ineffective at continuous aeroponic growth. The ultra sonic components are both expensive and unreliable due to their short life spans."

The patent application repeatedly states the atomizers were designed for water droplets sizes between 30 and 80 microns.

Atomix did not sell atomizers for their atomix chamber systems that were set up to operate in a range below 30 to 80 microns. Yes a very small percentage of the water droplets were below 30 micron and/or over 80 micron. This was mainly due to their systems nozzles being siphon fed rather than pump or gravity fed.

Simply said 6-11 micron is not OK unless you are cycling the fog on and off. I have not heard of a ultrasonic or centrifugal force type atomizer/fogger being used in a cyclic manner. Even if you were using the fogger systems they just don't work as well as a system providing the 50 micro droplets. With a 50 (30 to 80) droplet size system you can actually run continously if using small enough nozzles. That is not possible with smaller or larger droplets sizes. With the 50 micron droplets the roots are exposed to air plus they recieve water and that can happen over a broad application range. Yes you can over saturate with 50 micron droplets by over sizing the nozzles are using to many nozzles. There are simple calculations to prevent that though. With small or large droplets you o\ver satuare then supply nothing, then you over saturate again then supply nothing. That is TAG. Or you simply constantly over saturate by fogging constantly.

This is NOT a TAG thread.

wow fatman, someone with a brain!

"This is NOT a TAG thread." could ya point me to one? I cant find anyone to talk TAG to and all my friends are organic.

Fatman, so is the idea to constantly saturate the root zone with 50 microns? I was going to aim for a 2-4 second spray, I thought that was how NASA done it?

There is a tag thread on the IC forum.

With NASA a certain amount of water vapor is kept in the chamber at all times. The misting is done with air atomizers. This can be done with cyclic misting or continuous misting depending on the chamber sizes and air pressure used. It would be nearly impossible to spray the small amounts allowed with present nozzles available with small chambers as they at the smallest available sizes would cause over saturation. Then you are basically running a tag grow. There are maximum and minimum levels of water applied for aero chambers that are stated in the patent applications. The information used in the patent application came directly from NASA funded research. If using large droplets or small droplets the plants are not growing as efficiently as with ith the droplets sizes within the 30 to 80 micron droplet size. With either large or small sizes the systems require that the misting/fogging be cyclic. With the 30 to 50 micro size the misters can run constantly as long as their flow rate is small enough to not cause over saturation. IE large chambers and very small nozzles with high pressure if sprayed. Nozzles producing water droplets in the 30 to 80 micron sizes are capable of providing the most ideal conditions whether they are used continuous at very low flow rates or cyclic at higher flow rates.

In the water treatment field we have found that one of the most aggravating forms of iron is organic (chelated) iron. The irin in hydroponic formualtions is chelated iron. Iron in this form does not respond to the more simple iron treatment methods, for it is bound into organic materials which both tie up the iron in a non-ionic form, and are unusually resistant to oxidation. Thus, neither softeners nor iron filters will effectively remove this iron.

Strong oxidizing agents (H2O2 or potassium permangenate) and very long contact times are frequently the only answer to the presence of organic iron. High chlorine concentrations have been effective in some cases, but most water treatment authorities will often point out that it has been their experience that in most waters potassium permanganate or H2O2 will far surpass chlorine in oxidizing organic iron. Even if iron is removes as a particulate it will be obvious as it will coat your reservoir with a rust covered film. If this happens simply add some chelated iron (0.1 to 0.4 grams per gallon of mixed nutrient water). It is sold at large lawn and garden centers and on eBay.

fatman7574 said:

Lets see. NASA spent many millions of dollars on research into air atomized and high pressure aeroponics. The reserchers determined clearly that water droplet sizing of 50 microns is most efficient.

Atomix sold an air atomized system that could be adjusted by changing the nozzle tip to allow the majority of water droplets in the 30 to 80 micron size (805%) with no droplets smaller than 5 micron. Atomix never sold a atomix chamber system nozzle that was set up to deliver the majority of its water droplets in the 6 to 11 micron size as claimed by Northerlights#5Haze. Atomix sold out to an American Company. They did not go out of business due to high prices etc. The U.S. Patent Application Publication clearly states the droplet micron size for the atomix atomizer as being designed to produce droplets between 30 and 80 microns.

Well I guess we will see if i spent way to much money for nothing but so for so good The reason that foggers do not work well is aslso spelled out in the atomix patent and in NASA reports. Here is a few lines from the 2009 recent U.S. patent application publication for the aeromix type system.

"Aeroponic systems suffer from the disadvantage of producing the right size of droplets and in the right air to water ratio that is required to maintain a constant state of effective aeroponic growth while also meeting the liquid requirements of horticulture. Aeroponic systems that produce water droplets below 30 microns fail to achieve continuous aeroponic growth due to the need to supply droplets in such a high concentration that liquid saturation occurs whilst meeting the liquid requirement of horticulture. Very small droplets, such as 5-20 microns, need to be supplied in extremely high densities otherwise they cannot provide enough water to grow a plant. However, such a high concentration of very small virtually prevents air from getting to the roots and thus they may die unless the system is turned off periodically in order to allow the roots to dry and gain access to air. Thus, aeroponic systems with droplets below 30 micron tend to be operated with a clear on and off period due to this saturation. Aeroponic systems that produce droplets above 100 microns are also capable of continuous aeroponic growth due to a rapid saturation that is caused by droplets of this size."

"Ultrasonic systems are capable of producing very fine liquid particles of a sized smaller than 30 micron but they are also ineffective at continuous aeroponic growth. The ultra sonic components are both expensive and unreliable due to their short life spans."

The patent application repeatedly states the atomizers were designed for water droplets sizes between 30 and 80 microns.

Atomix did not sell atomizers for their atomix chamber systems that were set up to operate in a range below 30 to 80 microns. Yes a very small percentage of the water droplets were below 30 micron and/or over 80 micron. This was mainly due to their systems nozzles being siphon fed rather than pump or gravity fed.

Simply said 6-11 micron is not OK unless you are cycling the fog on and off. I have not heard of a ultrasonic or centrifugal force type atomizer/fogger being used in a cyclic manner. Even if you were using the fogger systems they just don't work as well as a system providing the 50 micro droplets. With a 50 (30 to 80) droplet size system you can actually run continously if using small enough nozzles. That is not possible with smaller or larger droplets sizes. With the 50 micron droplets the roots are exposed to air plus they recieve water and that can happen over a broad application range. Yes you can over saturate with 50 micron droplets by over sizing the nozzles are using to many nozzles. There are simple calculations to prevent that though. With small or large droplets you o\ver satuare then supply nothing, then you over saturate again then supply nothing. That is TAG. Or you simply constantly over saturate by fogging constantly.

This is NOT a TAG thread.

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Well I guess we will have to see how it goes because so for its running very well. I guess the proof will be in the pudding. And the funny thing is that my buddy has a atomix system and it is not a cone spray it is a flat fan but hey what do I know they could have just sent him the wrong one . Before you go making assumptions you should ask if i cycle on and off. Oh and by the way my timer goes into the thousands of a second. The system I have noone has.

So did any one look at the link www.ledebuhr.net
Would like some opinions on placing this in the center of a4x8x2 chamber micron size seems to be good in the 40-50 micron range for the majority of the spray.What do you think? I dont mean I am cheap I would pay the $1500.00 for the sprayer plus the few hundred to build the chamber.It is about money and maintenance the design is simple less to break no nozzles to clog.I want to be cost affective and reliable with the least amount of components as possible.Fatman you seem to know the most here what do you think?