My Outdoor Garden-2010

mariapastor said:

most outdoor gardens here in rollit up are organic i have horsess, and make occasional compost teas. im working on a perpetual system that uses the forces to power this machine it provides renewable energy in the form of floresence ... good growing i am 2 preparing early for this season

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RPsmoke420 said:

Wow, you seem like quite the Gardener there veggie. Awesome work so far.

Planning out my outdoor season right now. Figured I'd check out the site and see what other outdoor growers were doing. Shocked to see you with green plants already! A little bit of envy I think.

This year I think I am going take my first attempt at a large raised garden bed. I have always just used large pots in the past, but going to give the bed a try. Was reading through, maybe skipped it, but do you have any treatments you do for your soil? Just read 10 pages bursting with info, so sorry if I passed right over the answer.

Can I ask... whats the argument for starting seeds inside under artificial lights? Why not start from seed outside, in soil, under the sun? That way you wouldn't have to worry about going from an 18/6 to a 13/11 schedule. Also, you wouldn't have to harden off and adjust your plants to the outdoors. It's something I debate back and forth in my head each year. Look forward to reading what your opinion is.

Anyway, great thread. Subscribed and look forward to more!

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CAashtree said:

good advice as always veggiegardner. i know what you mean about hearing them grow...i too use raised beds outside. you just cant beat them. the feeder roots are in the top few inches of soil, so it makes sense to put the best soil there. i find that things tend to establish themselves faster when planted in raised beds too. i guess its that extra few degrees of soil temp.

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mariapastor said:

when do you crack ur seeds i crack mine on the new moon of feb

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veggiegardener said:

I won't say there's nothing to planting on the phases of the moon, but since I always start mine under lights, it doesn't seem relevant. I could be wrong.

I generally start my seeds in late December or early January. The latest I've started them in the last decade was last year, on January 13th.

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veggiegardener said:

A lot of GOOD questions.

I lost three years of grow logs at another site that explained everything I do. The owner just lost his mind and started banning all the long time posters.

Anyway, this thread will covr all that ground over the next ten months. All the way to my storage methods.

I get two crops from my plants. I start them in late December under lights, moving them into a greenhouse with added warmth when they are transplanted to one gallon pots.

Because they are vegging in ten hour days, they'll show sex ASAP. Usually in late February. One they have enough flowers, I select the best males and pollenate the most vigorous females. Not all, but the best I see.

I harvest the seeded buds in late April as revegging occurs.

The result is small plants with large root systems. As the California summer approaches, the growth rate accelerates so rapidly that sometimes I think I can HEAR them growing.

The only real limit to their size is the space I give each plant.

My cage has had as few as three plants and as many as nine, with little difference in total yield.

I intend to grow 15 plants, this year. Five in the cage, and each of the greenhouses.

Hardening off isn't an issue, because the greenhouse provides an intermediate step between CFLs and direct sunlight.

FYI, revegging is much easier with sativas than indicas. Sativas are nearly 100% successful while indicas run about 60%. The seeds are worth the loss.

I started using 12" deep raised beds in '84 and have never looked back. Heavier yielding than native soil and FAR more productive than pots. When first starting a bed, I buy high quality mushroom compost and forest humus and mix it with soil from my existing beds. This soil is full of worms, microbes and bacteria which quickly begin breaking down the other components.

Provide a three inch cushion of potting soil around the root ball of each transplant to prevent possible burning. The plants will grow into the mix as it wants, instead of being forced to try to absorb more than it can tolerate.

My finger is getting tired...

Please feel free to ask all the questions you want.

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CAashtree said:

good advice as always veggiegardner. i know what you mean about hearing them grow...i too use raised beds outside. you just cant beat them. the feeder roots are in the top few inches of soil, so it makes sense to put the best soil there. i find that things tend to establish themselves faster when planted in raised beds too. i guess its that extra few degrees of soil temp.

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RPsmoke420 said:

Awesome info. Thank you very much for taking all that time. I appreciate it!

Sorry you lost all those records. That's got to be tough. Do you also keep grow logs handy, so it wasn't a total loss? I have just recently started doing a very detailed grow log for each grow. Buddy of mine urged me to do it, since I can barely remember what I said 10 minutes ago!

Man, wish I could do the multiple harvest thing. This year I am going to try planting a few autoflowers real early on, and another batch late. Maybe help get some different harvest times. We'll see.

This year I think I am going to try not transplanting and simply planting the seeds into the dirt where they'll spend their life. I'm sure I will still germinate the seeds, so I don't end up waiting on a dude, or wasting space.

Just got started clearing out space for the raised beds. Plan is to amend the soil that is there, then build 18" high beds and fill with quality soil and mix. My question is, with a raised bed and the added drainage it offers, should I still use perlite? Maybe reduce the % ? Just not sure here.

I have a source for live worms, so they usually make their way into my dirt. This would also help drainage.

I also hesitate to use mushroom compost, as everything I have read on it says to use with much caution. They say mushroom compost is rich in soluble salts and other nutrients and can kill germinating seeds and harm salt-sensitive plants. Since I plan on starting my seeds right in the soil, I'm a little timid in using it.



Glad to hear everyone likes their raised bed. I am getting excited to build mine. I grow veggies too, so it should help all around.

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veggiegardener said:

I have all my photos and notes. I just lost a TON of dialogue that pretty much included everything I've learned in over 50 years of gardening. Much of that will be posted here, as things jog my memory.

Yes, mushroom compost is made from steer manure and is a bit salty.

The solution? after mixing your soils, give them a good watering. Basically you flush out the offending compounds.

Nearly all annual plants like veggies and herbs use only about six inches of soil. Unless you want the extra height due to health problems, I think 18 inches is overkill. Remember, you'll need to remove at least six inches to be able loosen the bottom layer of soil. A lot of work. Also, this adds to your costs and work at the beginning.

In my opinion, if you use the materials mentioned, you needn't add perlite or vermiculite. These are intended to aid drainage in potting soils, where worms aren't available to do the work.

If your soil contains a lot of organic matter, these things aren't necessary.

Planting seeds directly will work, BUT a new shoot is subject to all sorts of dangers from slugs, cutworms, or even birds or your cat. I prefer to start my seeds in peat pots and once well started, transplant into one gallon pots. Once well established, I transplant these into my beds. Until then the young plants are on a table to prevent creepy crawlies from getting a feast.

With veggies, like melons and squash, I start my seeds in 4" square pots, and once well established, transplant them into the beds.

I direct seed things like carrots, cabbage, and radishes, and thin as needed.

Leave the raised bed's soil level a couple inches below the top of the boars to leave room for a heavy layer of mulch, which encourages worms, and bacteria. Grass clippings are wonderful for this.

My opinions are just that. I encourage you to try different things. You may hit on something I might want to try.

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mariapastor said:

what do you think bout dr earth? ive talked to him about the cannabis issue and asked him how he felt about his product being used to feed organic marijuana.

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RPsmoke420 said:

Understand. Look forward to watching this thread grow!

Flush mushroom compost. You know when you read something and just say "duh"... just had that moment. Didn't even think of water washing some away.

So you think 18" is a little much? My thinking behind the added height is not due to health concerns. I am lucky in that I am able to get down and garden. Still plenty young too. Actually a couple reasons behind this thinking.

1.) The extra depth would allow me to grow potatoes, carrots, other root veggies. Is 18" still overkill? I have never grown any root veggie.

1A) My 12" deep beds grow potatoes and carrots, just fine. Look back a few posts and you'll see a nice stand of Yukon Gold potatoes.

2.) My ground isn't the best. As said before I used to grow mainly in pots. Large totes and the like. My soil is a "clay soil" with incredibly fine sediment and compacts down and suffocates roots.

2A)My ground is Adobe Clay. Trying to dig it in the summer is a job for a backhoe with hardened bucket teeth. I do dig down into the clay a couple inches because a little clay improves water retention and makes better contact with root hairs. My beds are 10%-15% clay.

3.) My thinking of "bigger planter pot equals bigger cannabis plant" might be carrying over. Just want to make sure they have enough room to really grow.

3A) Twelve inches is actually overkill. Many raised bed gardens are only 6" to 8", using compost or imported growing mix. I started using 12" redwood because I had an opportunity to get it free when a barn was torn down. I also was able to harvest a century's accumulation of horse droppings that had drifted between the floorboards of the barn. In places, this was three feet deep, and seed free.(Horses hadn't used it for thirty years.) WONDERFUL stuff!

When you say I would have to remove the top six inches to loosen the bottom soil... you mean after harvest? You wouldn't want to be digging up 6" worth of soil with plants in it, right? Probably a stupid questions but closed mouths don't get fed!


A) If you go deeper than 12", a normal shovel won't penetrate 18 inches. You need to remove a layer and dig the lower level(called "double digging"). I'm meticulous about turning over my soil to a minimum of a foot, and usually an inch or two deeper. Deeper yet would double the work involved.

Very good point, it would add a good amount to upfront cost. But that is something I could live with, if it was beneficial overall. No need to do all the extra work to arrive at the same place.

A) 'Zactly.

Looks like I will start the seeds off in some small 4" pots. Might copy you and then go to the one gallon pot before going into the ground.

A) I use two inch peat pots. I like the way roots penetrate through them. I transplant them very quickly. Usually after the second pair of leaves appear.

Thanks for all the tips. I understand they are opinion, but they are based off what you have done. It's nice being able to pick the brain of someone who is somewhat local too. Helps me get an idea and go from there.



and I swear, I'll try and lay off the thousand questions I keep asking you!

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mariapastor said:

well he make the best organic fertelizers infused with miccorrizea

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