My Nutrient Set-up

zem said:

i wanted to ask about superthrive, it is very well known and is an additive that gives hormones and stuff for plants, not NPK and NOT trace elements. on the bottle it doent say the exact ingredients, just says hormones. do you think it's any good? i have read that hormones can do improvements, and i only add N-P-K-Ca-Mg and trace elements, what do you think?

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http://www.superthrive.com/gallon.html

Contains vitamin b-1 and 1-naphthylacetic acid

1-Naphthaleneacetic acid, commonly abbreviated NAA, is an organic compound with the formula C10H7CH2CO2H. This colourless solid is soluble in organic solvents. It features a carboxylmethyl group (CH2CO2H) linked to the "1-position" of naphthalene. NAA is a plant hormone in the auxin family and is an ingredient in many commercial plant rooting horticultural products; it is a rooting agent and used for the vegetative propagation of plants from stem and leaf cutting. It is also used for plant tissue culture.

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Possible benefits of vitamin b-1:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1216/is_n5_v188/ai_12252342/

With that being said, I sometimes use 1ml per gallon when I'm waiting for clones to root. That's the only time I use it and it's benefits are marginal at best. DynaGro makes a product called KLN which contains those ingredients plus a few others and I'd like to test it when I'm out of superthrive.

http://www.dyna-gro.com/Website pdf Files/DG KLN - Root-Gel Sht 2006.pdf

puffntuff said:

Seriously this dude has 28 posts all of them about h&g. This spammer needs to get tossed.

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You guys crack me up! Certainly got you talkin. This is fun for me. You guys are way too serious....don't get your panties in a ruffle. I'll stop here though. We are getting off the subject. Use whatever you want, hope it works for you. Peace

homebrewer said:

For $200 in nutrients, I can grow 20 pounds of product. $200 is $200 which reminds me, how much are they paying you to promote their products?

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Look man, I believe in H&G and thats why I rep it. You guys use what you want. There are plenty of forums where people rave over it. Bottom line is, just like this forum, H&G stirs up the pot and gets people talking... I mean that was what this forum originated from...a guy just asking some questions about H&G....not dyna gro. Next time I will know not to provoke a negative remark. But I spend more time in my garden then I do on forums so i am new to this didn't realize that some people are way too serious and angry to accept a helping hand. When something is great, be it a team, a song, or whatever... it will have a lot of people talking. Haters are part of the game. Negative publicity is often stronger than positive. My work is done here. Peace

masonite420 said:

Bottom line is, just like this forum, H&G stirs up the pot and gets people talking... I mean that was what this forum originated from...a guy just asking some questions about H&G.

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You get people talking with remarks like 'the proof is in the puddin' and 'there are some new things going on which you must not know about'. You're seriously doing your company a disservice by coming in here and offering absolutely no knowledge of your own products other than '80% of grower who don't know anything use these products'


Personally I like both proof and puddin' and I don't pay a premium for either .

homebrewer said:

You get people talking with remarks like 'the proof is in the puddin' and 'there are some new things going on which you must not know about'. You're seriously doing your company a disservice by coming in here and offering absolutely no knowledge of your own products other than '80% of grower who don't know anything use these products'


Personally I like both proof and puddin' and I don't pay a premium for either .

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It is people like you who do a disservice to the whole grower community by posting negativity and closeminded ideology. you really think you know it all. I never claimed I know everythimg, I just like to try new things to promote evolution within the industry.I think this is a healthy thing. That's great that you like what you use. I am happy for you but stop posting negative comments about people who like to push the limits and have fun with growing. This is not a competition. This is supposed to be a fun, healing hobby. there is nothing wrong with experimenting and trying new things. Peace to you my friend

masonite420 said:

It is people like you who do a disservice to the whole grower community by posting negativity and closeminded ideology. you really think you know it all. I never claimed I know everythimg,

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Actually, all I'm pointing out is that when it comes down to it, it's all about the essential elements and that growers don't need expensive nutes/additives to get great results. These fertilizer companies are straight-up rip-off artists selling pipe dreams of resin and huge yields with 'cutting edge' technology. Unless beginners are educated at some point about what is really important to plants, these companies will continue to focus on producing snake oil instead of products that actually work. Rise above the BS marketing, we all deserve better than that.

homebrewer said:

Actually, all I'm pointing out is that when it comes down to it, it's all about the essential elements and that growers don't need expensive nutes/additives to get great results. These fertilizer companies are straight-up rip-off artists selling pipe dreams of resin and huge yields with 'cutting edge' technology. Unless beginners are educated at some point about what is really important to plants, these companies will continue to focus on producing snake oil instead of products that actually work. Rise above the BS marketing, we all deserve better than that.

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Actually I personally know the guy who brought H&G into the states for sale. The reason he did it was because he went to holland and was so impressed with how they cared about quality of their product. They test every single batch for quality. If it's not perfect, it gets thrown out. They are one of the few companies, if not the only, that have its own lab for testing. i also know very experienced, quality growers who do side by side testing of all different lines of nutrients and they really like what house and garden can do. From what I gather, you haven't even tried House... I'm sorry but I just do'nt believe that 80% of growers don't know what they're doing and that you are in the 20% that do. Every grower has something to offer and I respect those who are willing to experiment. To be honest with you,it looks like you need a bit more girth in your flowers, once they dry that stuff will be fluffy for sure...try a mid bloom enhancer.Boost in phosphorus and potassium like Hydroplex or Big Bud or if you don't like big companies, bat guano during weeks 2-5 on an 8 weeker. Then a pk 13 14 or Top Booster to trigger late bloom in week 5, followed by a kick in the ass with higher phosphorus and potassium boosts like shooting powder, koolbloom, budblaster, or bat guano in week 6 and 7 before your flush. Just make sure you watch your ppms. Other than that they look great. I am glad you like your dyna gro and merely suggest trying some new things sometimes. I go on these forums to help people because I love to grow and have seen peoples smiles when i tell them to use something and it works. I would never tell someone to use something if I didn't believe in it or truly think that it would help. There are a lot bull shit claims out there...i understand your frustration, but House & garden really works. I have had customers where i work that were very skeptical, but came back smiling. And I am talkin guys who have done this for 15 years and were fully on the " I know what i need, don't tell me" trip. If I didn't care, then i wouldn't even be writing this. House & garden works man and they are here to help gardening progression because they love it. Simple. They are changing the game forever. Good luck to you my friend.

Homebrewer


Dude, please tell me those are your photos. I clicked on it and it went to a photo website where you can buy it. Now that would be funny!

masonite420 said:

To be honest with you,it looks like you need a bit more girth in your flowers, once they dry that stuff will be fluffy for sure...try a mid bloom enhancer.Boost in phosphorus and potassium like Hydroplex or Big Bud

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Not needed as my NPK ratios are already giving my plants a balanced diet for their stage in life, which as you can tell by the white pistols, is fairly early.

Then a pk 13 14 or Top Booster to trigger late bloom in week 5, followed by a kick in the ass with higher phosphorus and potassium boosts like shooting powder, koolbloom, budblaster, or bat guano in week 6 and 7 before your flush

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Again, not needed. Unbalanced 'PK boosters' will lockout zinc, iron, copper, nitrogen, calcium and magnesium. That's not how you grow healthy plants.

but House & garden really works

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Never said it didn't but we're not talking about them as a whole, just their $200/gallon product filled with pixie dust.

Dude, please tell me those are your photos. I clicked on it and it went to a photo website where you can buy it. Now that would be funny!

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The website is an image hosting site and yes, those pics are mine.

homebrewer said:

Not needed as my NPK ratios are already giving my plants a balanced diet for their stage in life, which as you can tell by the white pistols, is fairly early.

Again, not needed. Unbalanced 'PK boosters' will lockout zinc, iron, copper, nitrogen, calcium and magnesium. That's not how you grow healthy plants.

Never said it didn't but we're not talking about them as a whole, just their $200/gallon product filled with pixie dust.

The website is an image hosting site and yes, those pics are mine.

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Right on brotha, have a good one....Peace

homebrewer said:

Not needed as my NPK ratios are already giving my plants a balanced diet for their stage in life, which as you can tell by the white pistols, is fairly early.

Again, not needed. Unbalanced 'PK boosters' will lockout zinc, iron, copper, nitrogen, calcium and magnesium. That's not how you grow healthy plants.

Never said it didn't but we're not talking about them as a whole, just their $200/gallon product filled with pixie dust.

The website is an image hosting site and yes, those pics are mine.

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wanted to ask you a question.. do you think it is possible with a product like Drip Clean, which H&G says "eliminates salt and debris deposits on contact. Administered at every feeding, Drip Clean acts as a magnet, removing salt particles and dirt from the root structure, piping, and medium of any garden. "Application at every feeding throughout the entire life of the plant virtually guarantees protection form excessive salt buildups and nutrient lockout. As an added benefit, House & Garden’s proprietary blend allows for a more effective and quicker flush times at the end of every harvest." ........Do you think it is possible that if you used mid bloom and late bloom enhancers with Drip clean that it would stop that lock out and allow for a bigger boost, allowing for density and quality that wasn't attainable previously? And as for Bud XL or "pixie dust", is it impossible for the scientists in their lab to develop an enzymatic process which speeds up the process already happening to transfer sugars into the flowers thereby increasing taste and resin production? Because if this is impossible then something is making it work. It is an impressive product and i have seen the differences with and without it first hand. There is just more resin production when I add it in. It is one of the products back in the day that made me switch to their whole line. What is making it work?

wanted to ask you a question..with a product like Drip Clean, which H&G says "eliminates salt and debris deposits on contact. Administered at every feeding, Drip Clean acts as a magnet, removing salt particles and dirt from the root structure, piping, and medium of any garden. "Application at every feeding throughout the entire life of the plant virtually guarantees protection form excessive salt buildups and nutrient lockout. As an added benefit, House & Garden’s proprietary blend allows for a more effective and quicker flush times at the end of every harvest." ........Do you think it is possible that if you used mid bloom and late bloom enhancers with Drip clean that it would stop that lock out and allow for a bigger boost, allowing for density and quality that wasn't attainable previously?

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Lockout is either from too much salt buildup in your medium or by feeding your plants lopsided NPK ratios. You cannot overfeed any one single element without the potential to lockout other competing elements. Plant nutrition is about balance and when people use too many 'boosters' or have wacky NPK ratios from their base nutes, they run the risk of locking out important elements regardless of how many times the medium is flushed or what product is being fed along with your mineral salts.

And as for Bud XL or "pixie dust", is it impossible for the scientists in their lab to develop an enzymatic process which speeds up the process already happening to transfer sugars into the flowers thereby increasing taste and resin production? Because if this is impossible then something is making it work. It is an impressive product and i have seen the differences with and without it first hand. There is just more resin production when I add it in. It is one of the products back in the day that made me switch to their whole line. What is making it work?

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I recently tested GH nutes against DynaGro nutes and the final GH product was more resinous than the DG product, BUT the DG product yielded more of a more potent product. More resin doesn't mean more potency so your bottle could increase resin but when you're looking to maximize the genetic potential of your seeds/clones, feed your plants what they want, when they want it, in the amounts that are needed. With proper feeding strengths and ratios, your plants will pull up exactly what they need. Your plants know how to grow. They have been doing it for thousand of years. The less you interfere in their natural development the better the results.

I think its so funny when these young in's pay out the fucking nose for shit I pay pennies for. I go into these rip-off hydro shops and all the nute/booster containers have pixtures of fucking bananas, strawberry, pineapples and the like. Fucking incredible! I don't know weather to drink this shit myself or feed it to the plants.

masonite420 said:

That $200 gallon product will last you 6 months with a 50 gal rez. If you're worried about $200 in 6 months you must be doing something wrong. Anyhow, good luck to you. Hopefully our posted convos will help others in deciding for themselves on this issue. Peace

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homebrewer said:

Lockout is either from too much salt buildup in your medium or by feeding your plants lopsided NPK ratios. You cannot overfeed any one single element without the potential to lockout other competing elements. Plant nutrition is about balance and when people use too many 'boosters' or have wacky NPK ratios from their base nutes, they run the risk of locking out important elements regardless of how many times the medium is flushed or what product is being fed along with your mineral salts.


I recently tested GH nutes against DynaGro nutes and the final GH product was more resinous than the DG product, BUT the DG product yielded more of a more potent product. More resin doesn't mean more potency so your bottle could increase resin but when you're looking to maximize the genetic potential of your seeds/clones, feed your plants what they want, when they want it, in the amounts that are needed. With proper feeding strengths and ratios, your plants will pull up exactly what they need. Your plants know how to grow. They have been doing it for thousand of years. The less you interfere in their natural development the better the results.

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home brewer was your experiment done in a lab? was it tested to be more resinous? and did you get the thc and cbd count from both the grow ? not being funny but unless all was done then you cant come over like it was done fairly or correctly there are labs and millions that are doing just that with a few nute brands house and garden, canna, advanced nutrients to name a few. and once you pull things away from there natural enviroment there development is never gonna be the same as it would be in there natural enviroment anyway this is why people from all over the world are doin these experiments, who would of thought hundred years ago that we would be growin cannabis under hps lighting ? but we are. are you gonna try tell me hps is not the way to go in a indoor grow for max yield!! or soil is more cleaner than cocco? in my experience you get wot you pay for end of, yes there are some bs products out there but its up to yourself to sift through them not the company that has spent how many hours to produce the product to tell you it does nt work!! house and garden are doin a great job tryin new things and who can blame them for cannabis cultivation is growing at a rapid rate. if you have nt used house and garden then i suggest you use there multizyme its there best product imo and worth every penny i spend on it. 2l will see me through 2 grows at the price of £20.oo which to be fair is a steal sayin id happily pay £200~£300.
happy growin and all the very best to ya all which ever you choose to grow with!!
chedder1985

cheddar1985 said:

home brewer was your experiment done in a lab? was it tested to be more resinous? and did you get the thc and cbd count from both the grow ? not being funny but unless all was done then you cant come over like it was done fairly or correctly there are labs and millions that are doing just that with a few nute brands house and garden, canna, advanced nutrients to name a few. and once you pull things away from there natural enviroment there development is never gonna be the same as it would be in there natural enviroment anyway this is why people from all over the world are doin these experiments, who would of thought hundred years ago that we would be growin cannabis under hps lighting ? but we are. are you gonna try tell me hps is not the way to go in a indoor grow for max yield!! or soil is more cleaner than cocco? in my experience you get wot you pay for end of, yes there are some bs products out there but its up to yourself to sift through them not the company that has spent how many hours to produce the product to tell you it does nt work!! house and garden are doin a great job tryin new things and who can blame them for cannabis cultivation is growing at a rapid rate. if you have nt used house and garden then i suggest you use there multizyme its there best product imo and worth every penny i spend on it. 2l will see me through 2 grows at the price of £20.oo which to be fair is a steal sayin id happily pay £200~£300.
happy growin and all the very best to ya all which ever you choose to grow with!!
chedder1985

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First of all, you act like these companies are out to make an honest buck and they only put out products that provide the consumer a genuine benefit. That's just naive to think that about any business or company.

At the end of the day, I have the journals and the experience to back up my 'tests' where you on the other hand have trouble using correct grammar and sentence structure . Take my posts with a grain of salt, it doesn't affect me one way or the other.

homebrewer said:

First of all, you act like these companies are out to make an honest buck and they only put out products that provide the consumer a genuine benefit. That's just naive to think that about any business or company.

At the end of the day, I have the journals and the experience to back up my 'tests' where you on the other hand have trouble using correct grammar and sentence structure . Take my posts with a grain of salt, it doesn't affect me one way or the other.

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i expected a reply like this lol!! why are they not out to make an honest buck? why is everythin a con or a rip off? were your tests done fairly in everyway possible ? show me your journals of the so called fair experiments with proven facts not just your word to take for it!! my grammer or sentence structure was ok for you to read it tho was nt it? and it will be taken with a grain of salt. please send us links to these so called journals please as you ve got my attention

waiting is a killer

cheddar, there are scientific facts to fertilizing plants. trial and error is a primitive way to test a new fert. plants need certain minerals to grow well. no matter what the product, it will have N-P-K-Ca-Mg-S-Fe-Boron-... do you think that if there was a superior product and a magic fert, wouldn't the huge food corps use them? when a product is sold for 200$ they better have a scientific explanation as to why it is superior and they dont. it's all about marketing this stuff for hobby growers who know nothing really.

Mountainfarmer said:

I think its so funny when these young in's pay out the fucking nose for shit I pay pennies for. I go into these rip-off hydro shops and all the nute/booster containers have pixtures of fucking bananas, strawberry, pineapples and the like. Fucking incredible! I don't know weather to drink this shit myself or feed it to the plants.

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So fucking true! I couldn't have said it better.

zem said:

cheddar, there are scientific facts to fertilizing plants. trial and error is a primitive way to test a new fert. plants need certain minerals to grow well. no matter what the product, it will have N-P-K-Ca-Mg-S-Fe-Boron-... do you think that if there was a superior product and a magic fert, wouldn't the huge food corps use them? when a product is sold for 200$ they better have a scientific explanation as to why it is superior and they dont. it's all about marketing this stuff for hobby growers who know nothing really.

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eactly trial and error!! wot works for one plant or strain will not work for another some need to be pushed to the limit some need gently play unless your a fucking professor or sceintist that has been in the game for over a number of years who are we to say these nutes dont work