my led report . just in

I bought this .http://www.ebay.com/itm/300W-LED-Grow-Light-Full-Spectrum-IR-For-Indoor-Grow-Greenhouse-Hydroponic-Plant-/291003115391?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item43c123277f I posted about it a wile a go. it did not want to pick up the fresh planted clones up. they sat flat unhappy until I hooked up the cfl or mh. what I usually use . with in hours with the mh they were sitting up off the soil . so I disconnected the mh and plug in the led again . figure I would give it another shot . 2 weeks later . I have noticed very slow veg growth . comparable to t5. they did veg bushy but hardly any new growth . I unplugged the led again . ran the 600 mh hortilux . I got almost the same amount of growth in 2 days as the led .
my conclusion. the led fail . would not make new clones happy. very slow growth . very hard to see the plants with that pink light on.
I have years of growing experience under my belt . the mh is always the winner insane fat bushy growth . then the t5 good all around light for new transplanted clones veg to flower. not as fast as mh or close . the led I cant afford to dick around waiting for months and months to pass before I cant get it into flower. all in all . after the plants are established , I would say the led did grow about the same speed as t5 lights with the same power input. so my opinion there is no savings on the electric bill. any light that has trouble with fresh rooted clones troubles me . I don't think the light is seeing the spectrum well. this is my opinion only . but the led did work for veg. if you had the patients and time it could be a great light . for health looking plants.

That's what you get with cheap LEDs unfortunately. You get what you pay for but if you're willing to dish out good money its worth it

sdf said:

That's what you get with cheap LEDs unfortunately. You get what you pay for but if you're willing to dish out good money its worth it

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I was going to say the same thing...

so where do the blackstar240's fall into your view of "cheap"?

I wasn't impressed

You get what you pay for...

I hear of LED growers going to HID. Don't hear much about stepping backwards from HID to LED.

Interesting technology, expensive for sure. Just not there yet if compared to HID.

SnapsProvolone said:

I hear of LED growers going to HID. Don't hear much about stepping backwards from HID to LED.

Interesting technology, expensive for sure. Just not there yet if compared to HID.

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I saw this in another thread....it gave me pause. If it's even true and not some type of light switch or something


https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/812352-2000-budget-what-light-should-2.html#post10326714

i've never seen anything close to this under led

There is cfl too. Wonder how much veg time.

Dunno, maybe I'll buy a LED when I have time/space/plant count plants to side by side one. Its been several years since I did one.

I'd like to test some more @ some point as well. Just want to find the right panels. I liked the kessil technology when I was looking into them a few years back. But the cost was just too high for the footprint given.

and the other thing is people act like these panels don't put heat off. THe blackstars i tried sure put a lot of heat off. If you put enough of them in a room it would be comparable to hid imo. and you can't actively cool them if you wish.

Yes those heat sinks aren't for looks. The closer to hid in par lumens the closer in heat output.

black stars are crap.. comparing cheap low quality leds to any lighting it just won't hold up. That is what gives led such a bad rep amongst hid growers... plus the chjeap leds have a horrible monochromatic spectrum.. not even a full spectrum.. Imo, they must have either cree, nichia, osram, or philips rebel leds. other wise they are inferior.


@ snaps. I never hear of led growers switching hid. its the other way around.Everyday more and more hid growers are switching to led and induction and getting better results

even lush lighting which imo is low quality led. Subcool just pulled almost a pound off one plant from 1 lush lighting 330 watt led. granted he had hps in the room but not over that plant. there are far better choices than lush for 1/3 of the cost like 51, apache, hans, and diy cobs or rbw

imo kessils are not that great alone, they are better for supplementing. the leds are stacked.

hyroot said:

black stars are crap.. comparing cheap low quality leds to any lighting it just won't hold up. That is what gives led such a bad rep amongst hid growers...

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agreed, and agreed.
they are the only ones I have personal experience with though. So I can't/won't comment on the other brands.

hyroot said:

@ snaps. I never hear of led growers switching hid. its the other way around.Everyday more and more hid growers are switching to led and induction and getting better results
.

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hmmm, dunno bout this. and as far as induction...? They are nothing more than souped up flourescents from what I have seen. Also no direct experience with them though. Just from reading posts and reviews.

i would like some pics or links to check out on the part bolded if possible

hyroot said:

e 51, apache, hans,

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i'll check them out hyroot. I have seen some pics of your plants and they are respectable.

It's hit & miss with the chinese panels for sure. I tried 2 different types that I used for one run, they both sucked big time, they're essentially paper weights now, the one sounds like an airplane and went that way after about a month. The current one's have vegged, sprouted seeds and clones well, testing their flowering capabilities this round in a very tight/controlled environment to see what they can do in flowering. They run cool, almost no noise, the loudest is a "450W" but considering it runs 3 fans in addition to heat sinks, it's almost silent. There are as many variables though, as as there are designs and manufacturers. It's a different way of growing than HPS or HID, watering schedules, light distance, timing of when to turn on "grow" switches (reds), all are different and make a difference from what I've tried so far. They're not for anyone that is under pressure to produce for sure, in that situation I'd go with a top name brand like A51 or Apache, Inda-gro for induction, or stick with traditional lighting. I'm willing and able to take the time to tweak until I find a good mix of lighting that is energy efficient and produces well. Right now, that's looking like a combo of these LED's for seeds, clones, vegging, and inca-gro's for flowering. I'll use these panels for flowering special/tests/strain testing etc. but my personal/soil grows will likely flower with induction longer term.

joe macclennan said:

agreed, and agreed.
they are the only ones I have personal experience with though. So I can't/won't comment on the other brands.



hmmm, dunno bout this. and as far as induction...? They are nothing more than souped up flourescents from what I have seen. Also no direct experience with them though. Just from reading posts and reviews.

i would like some pics or links to check out on the part bolded if possible


i'll check them out hyroot. I have seen some pics of your plants and they are respectable.

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induction is florescent. but they are sealed and last 10 years with minimal spectral degrading after 7 years. hps degrade at 6 months. and have great penetration. perform much better than t5.. t5 outperforms hid. Ive grown for almost 15 years now total.. ive used every lighting there is.. i got the largest buds from t5 and cmh. the densest buds from induction and led and cmh. the frostiest from induction.. hps work. but i got smaller buds and and bleached buds. had far more heat issues . 3 inda gro 420 with led pontoons run less heat than 2 badboy t5 8 bulbs. the a51 leds put out less heat than that. most high end leds have far more intensity than a 1000 w hps.

imo order of lights in quality and best results


1st - cmh - philips allstart line
2nd induction , led (tied) - inda gro , area 51, apache tech hans ,(bonsaihero)
3rd t5 w/ aquarium bulbs - zoo med flora suns , uvl redsuns,
4th aquarium mh - reef, hamilton, sylvania
5th hps- digilux, ushio

I have to strongly disagree about t5's outperforming hid, and i've been @ this a while myself.

but as far as intensity between led/hid I am with you on this. There is no doubt in my mind that the some led's are very powerful. Just from what I have seen you have to go watt for watt to get comparable results.

therefor if you need 1k of hid you need 1k of led(actual wattage) and the costs are too prohibitive for a grow of any size. If costs come down then ok.

either way I'm about ready to try a few new panels out and maybe i'll try an a51 or apache....we'll see.

thanks for the response

joe macclennan said:

I have to strongly disagree about t5's outperforming hid, and i've been @ this a while myself.

but as far as intensity between led/hid I am with you on this. There is no doubt in my mind that the some led's are very powerful. Just from what I have seen you have to go watt for watt to get comparable results.

therefor if you need 1k of hid you need 1k of led(actual wattage) and the costs are too prohibitive for a grow of any size. If costs come down then ok.

either way I'm about ready to try a few new panels out and maybe i'll try an a51 or apache....we'll see.

thanks for the response

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with t5's i got buds the size of milk cartons with aquarium bulbs and fresh water bulbs. I got 24 oz off my last t5 grow wit 2 t5 8 bulbs. the most i ever got off 1000 was 19 zips. my first induction grow i got a pound. but much smaller plants and not enough plants to fill the space. im on my 2nd inductin grow now.

watts do not mean a thing. just like lumens don't mean a thing. Not all watts are the same its about eficacy , cri, par, and efficency. 1000w is 20%-30% efficient. so its creating at most 300 watts of usable light and 700 watts of heat (wasted energy).

with quality led and induction. its about 500- 600 watts to match the yield and coverage of a 1000w. now a 1000w of led will cover twice the area and match 2 1000w hps's

with cmh. 2 330w cmh's outperformed a 1000w hps and covered more area. those have higher par than a 600w hps and the highest cri of any bulb., the higher the cri the more even spectral distribution. the cmh i had, has a cri 93, my induction cri 90, my led cri 80. hps cri around 25-35. Imo cri is more important than efficiency and par. they go hand n hand.

the reason hps have such poor cri and horrible spectrum is due to them using aluminum arcs. Cmh use ceramic arcs. which distribute spectral light more evenly and degrade less and last 3 times longer than hps.


here is another myth all the hid guys buy into.. mh during veg and hps during flower. You actually want the same spectrum in veg and flower. Maybe with some added 660nm deep red in flower. The sun never changes its spectrum year round. plants have been growing under the sun for millions of years. Most outdoor done right is better quality than any hps grow.

all very good points and well written

I used either 6500k or 6800k in veg. ho bulbs for veg for several years. I can't remember which. Those yields sound very impressive. was this doing super intensive scrog? and yields are largely strain dependent as i'm sure you know.

joe macclennan said:

I used either 6500k or 6800k in veg. ho bulbs for veg for several years. I can't remember which. Those yields sound very impressive. was this doing super intensive scrog? and yields are largely strain dependent as i'm sure you know.

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imo anything higher than 5400k is useless.. i now veg with 4850k (inda gro) and 4500k (a51). when i used t5. i would use agromax htg 5400k bulbs for veg. the use those and uvl redsuns and zoo med flora suns for flower.. with the 5400k. plants were vegging twice as fast 6500k and thicker stems too.. par t5 works great. the bulb replacement gets rediculous on the wallet.

with induction and led i dont have to wory about bulb replacement for years and years. I'm the type that will use something til it dies. keep up maintenance to last longer. Like i had the first gen xbox 360. the one where everyones got the red ring of death within a year. mine lasted 9 years then was stolen along with lights, computers, plants, money, phone, and pot and some food.. i upgraded the fans on the xbox. and took it apart regularly to clean it...

I have a high quality 600w LED(685 true watts) and I treat it just like a 1000w hps as far as hanging distance/intensity and coverage... and I got similar results. But cooling is way less. Between the 40% in lighting and the 75% in cooling, it is saving a good amount.