My first ScrOG: T5 PAR vs 1000w HPS

@mipainpatient,

I didnt give any spectrum of the T5 PAR lamps, just brand names. More specifically, they are; 2x UVL Red Sun, a new UVL red lamp targeted at 660nm which is called Sunsource, 3x Korallen-Zucht Fiji Purple, a UVL 454nm, and UVL Super Actinic. The UVLs are all rated at V-HO, but since my fixture is only HO so thats what its running at. Good thing the V-HO lamps are backward compatible. Once its flower time, Ill be exchanging the super actinic with a Wave point Coral wave for the IR boost. Thats in the growmax. I dont have the other T5 PAR system I bought from ebay in just yet since I dont need it just yet and I havent changed the lamps out from the old flower pattern I was using anyway. I have a few spare blue lamps around here when I get to needing it.

Thats good to hear about germination rates from TGA, but not so good about the cross you made. Have you tried putting the planting device you are using for the seeds over a heat pad? My veg/clone area happens to be next to one of the central AC register. They were being real stubborn til I put a heating element nearby.

Ha, milk crates.. would have saved myself some cash I guess, but it wasnt so bad for labor and the cost was about $30 for the platforms by themselves. I think I need to trim another inch off the 11" legs. Its just not enough of an angle for a typical water for the remnants of the run off to drain. I checked the pH and its at an even 6, I think next time I water Im going to flush them anyway. Then Ill put it to a good test

@puppet14,

I dont know of anyone thats growing it either but like always in my purchasing decisions, user review always plays a role. While its no fun deseeding every time, you also are losing out on plant energy that could have been spent on more THC/CBD/Bud growth.

I hear you on the indica. I went so far as to let the blueberry I had go until about 40% amber trichs, and by the time it finished curing it was about 60% amber. Most of the time I dont get anything done and I want to nap or sleep. I have around 10 grams of it left, and about 5 grams of bubble hash I made. Pretty tasty, but I think Ill do better this time around considering the trim Im aiming to get.

My goal from this ScrOG grow is to produce high quality buds, aiming at 10-12oz or so per screen. Maybe less on the T5 PAR side, more like 6-8. So far all Ive been getting from the PAR lighting is a lot of fluff. Some good looking trich formations but the resin glands inside the bud are severely lacking. My other thought is it could have been an issue being root bound. Maybe it was doing the best it could while still having huge deficiencies and/or toxicity. Right now, they look great and healthy. When I flush Im also going to be doing some trimming along the bottom part of the main stalk to promote using all plant energy on the shoots that will be trained into the screen.

infinitalus said:

@mipainpatient,

I didnt give any spectrum of the T5 PAR lamps, just brand names. More specifically, they are; 2x UVL Red Sun, a new UVL red lamp targeted at 660nm which is called Sunsource, 3x Korallen-Zucht Fiji Purple, a UVL 454nm, and UVL Super Actinic. The UVLs are all rated at V-HO, but since my fixture is only HO so thats what its running at. Good thing the V-HO lamps are backward compatible. Once its flower time, Ill be exchanging the super actinic with a Wave point Coral wave for the IR boost. Thats in the growmax. I dont have the other T5 PAR system I bought from ebay in just yet since I dont need it just yet and I havent changed the lamps out from the old flower pattern I was using anyway. I have a few spare blue lamps around here when I get to needing it.

Thats good to hear about germination rates from TGA, but not so good about the cross you made. Have you tried putting the planting device you are using for the seeds over a heat pad? My veg/clone area happens to be next to one of the central AC register. They were being real stubborn til I put a heating element nearby.

Ha, milk crates.. would have saved myself some cash I guess, but it wasnt so bad for labor and the cost was about $30 for the platforms by themselves. I think I need to trim another inch off the 11" legs. Its just not enough of an angle for a typical water for the remnants of the run off to drain. I checked the pH and its at an even 6, I think next time I water Im going to flush them anyway. Then Ill put it to a good test

Click to expand...

Heh I meant to specify that I was asking 'bout the HPS bulb spectrum, appreciate the disclosure of the t5s. Yea I hear the VHOs actually last longer on a HO setup because of the higher quality electrodes/caps---expecting to basically be overdriven. Provides even more spectrum variation opportunities and if you get another cycle or two out of it you totally can justify the higher price.

--gonna have to check out the sunsource, where did you get them?....Got that spec covered w/ LEDs but always looking

infinitalus said:

I took some more measurements. The plastic tote (seen in the bottom right corner of my grow tent pic) is 39.5" long which leaves me about 2" of free space after putting in 3 of the 13x13" buckets. Using the following diagram, training the plants towards the direction shown will allow for a full screen using fewer plants, taking less time in veg overall. I want to build 4x plat forms measuring 12" tall, 36" long, 16" wide to rest the storage totes on. I also want the legs of this platform on the far side of the tent to measure 12", and the front side to measure 11" to allow water to come to the front of the tent. I will drill a 5/16" hole in the front side of these storage totes and then screw in a 1/2" pipe with a barbed nipple on the other end into the hole drilled for drainage when flushing. This platform is needed for the slight angled gravity drain, and to make it slightly easier to water. The angle will be slight so that gravity will allow the excess water to drain but not so steep that the tote will go flying off the platform because of the weight.

I found that pressure treated 2x4x8s are available at lowes for about $2.75 apiece after tax, so it looks like Ill need 8 planks for the width of these platforms, 2 planks for 8 pieces of 16" wide support pieces, and the scrap from the 36" lengths can be used to cut the 8x 11" and 8x 12" lengths I need for the front and back legs. A box of 100 ct 1-1/2" screws. An 8ft length of hose, cut into 2' lengths for the nipples. Ill have an associate cut the planks to length while I look around for the rest of the stuff I need. Im thinking around $60-70 or so out the door.

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hey man not hating but research the chemicals in pressure treated wood....very nasty and constantly shedding into your grow and home and so on....they are not evan rated for indoor use as they are so toxic....just a word to the wise....

I tried posting earlier but my internet was giving me issues. Anyways.

@mipainpatient,

The HPS lamp im going for is a Hortilux Eye Super HPS.

I looked at the quality of a commercially grown LED plant and compared to HPS. You can see immediately that LED just doesnt have enough lumens to really give the plant the density regardless of spectrum. Force feeding a plant more lumens, regardless of spectrum, is a good thing. T5 HO fluoros are slightly more powerful than LED, but nothing compares to the HID output of HPS. This is what research says anyway. Im putting it to the test.

@richinweed,

My cousin said the same thing when I was buying the planks, but the wood themselves will not be wet and they will not be touching any live plant matter at any point ever. I appreciate the heads up, and if something does happen Ill just use some sealant on the wood. I have a carbon filter for exhaust, so it should be fine for my own breathable air.

EDIT: I did some research on treated wood. The stuff they use for it is pretty bad, but unless if its not cut, sanded, or burned then I should be fine. Just wash hands afterwards if handling. I had all the wood cut at lowes, all I had to do is assemble using screws. I really appreciate the heads up again though.

My goals from this experiment: Determine yield difference (if any), quality difference (if any). I suspect there will be both

I looked at the quality of a commercially grown LED plant and compared to HPS. You can see immediately that LED just doesnt have enough lumens to really give the plant the density regardless of spectrum. Force feeding a plant more lumens, regardless of spectrum, is a good thing. T5 HO fluoros are slightly more powerful than LED, but nothing compares to the HID output of HPS. This is what research says anyway. Im putting it to the test.

This is what all of my research told me too. Before I bought my 1000w I did tons of research. I was hoping that T-5s would be enough for me to veg plants for two months and then just flower with my 600w HPS , and almost everyone seems to agree that T-5 is good for veg, but the plants grow slower and that HID is the best for flower. The way I understand it this grow should also answer the question and help others make an informed decision about the benefits and drawbacks of each system.

I'm on board looks good.

@puppet14

I would say that using hps for babies and early veg would be overkill for the plants.. Too much livht too early could cause undue stress. Under my T5 par lights, all plants are now 10" or more and it took less than a month. The fan leaves are huge and the plant is healthy in general. I think that when i change out the actinic for the IR boost it will start budding rapidly. The broad spectrum output shifting more towards red at flower seems like it will be healthier.


For area 2 when ones are ready to go in its gonna be right under the 1000w in flower cycle. Might stress out at first i think but ultimately it should be fine. Then again thy will be atleast 10" tall so theyll be ready for the heavy lighting.

from your earlier post:

infinitalus said:

... a new UVL red lamp targeted at 660nm which is called Sunsource...

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Where did you source the "Sunsource"? can't find it anywhere I've looked so far...
not trolling just want to price it out and maybe try it : )

Just to let you guys know UV Lighting Company is producing a new line of reflective fluorescent and HPS lights

@mipainpatient,

Sunsource is a new lamp from UVL. They dont have it listed on their website, and I dont know if it is being vendored to anyone in particular. Its not really designed as a horticultural lamp, more for aquariums. Jeff Saghy at UVL will be able to help you with any inquiries about this lamp. His email is: [email protected]. I am pretty sure that its $30 per 48" lamp. If not, right around there.

I flushed the babies today, and it looks like they really needed it. I really like this new pH meter The water was pretty yellow looking for a while. I kept going and going with the water until it looked fairly clear. The shoots on my tallest plant are stretching toward the light, the screen is gonna start filling up in the next week or two.

edit:

@hackmagic,

That horticulture link has been up at UVL for over 6 months with no updates. I look at it periodically but without expectation.

infinitalus said:

@puppet14

I would say that using hps for babies and early veg would be overkill for the plants.. Too much livht too early could cause undue stress. Under my T5 par lights, all plants are now 10" or more and it took less than a month. The fan leaves are huge and the plant is healthy in general. I think that when i change out the actinic for the IR boost it will start budding rapidly. The broad spectrum output shifting more towards red at flower seems like it will be healthier.


For area 2 when ones are ready to go in its gonna be right under the 1000w in flower cycle. Might stress out at first i think but ultimately it should be fine. Then again thy will be atleast 10" tall so theyll be ready for the heavy lighting.

Click to expand...

When you grow from seed like I've been doing the plants can handle the light and growth is fast. When I start growing from clones in the near future then light stress in early veg would be more of a concern, but I can always just dim the ballast to 50% for a couple of days to kind of harden them off and step it up to 75 and then finally 100% over about a week. I've done it before with no worries

-Puppet

@puppet14,

Good point, digital ballasts have that option of dimming the bulbs. I just dont have mine yet.

Not much has been going on. I watered again today, the dirt was really dry and the plants were only just beginning to droop. I think 20-30 oz of water a day is a good regimen to avoid dirt drying up. Another week or so for the screen to really start filling up.

Screen is starting to really fill up towards the front. I noticed that two of the plants veg is taking longer because FIMM failed. Seems like Two FIMMs in early veg is a good way to go. Ill remember that for next time.

Have you noticed any significant difference between the t-5 and metal halide so far in veg?

My first grow I used the bullshit MH lamp they sent me with my ballast. It was a 400w, and my T5 system now is 432w. I would say there is no noticeable difference between the two aside from heat and RFI which was messing with my internet. If you get a digital ballast, make sure the wires are properly shielded or they can mess with your radio receiving equipment badly.. including your wireless router.

12/12 lighting has been going for two days. They stretched FAST. Even the leaves have a good 45 degree curvature towards the light, its crazy. I havent seen any pheno stretch like this.

This pic was taken 2 days ago, right before I turned off the lights.







This pic was taken 7 hours into the 12 hours of light, yesterday.

Looking good!

Took pic 10 hours ago. Checked this morning, plant closest to the front (the biggest and seemingly the most vigorous) is a female! YES!

I worked on the grow room for about 4 hours last night.

All four plants are females which is not something I was expecting. All four plants came from seeds out of brick weed. I tranplanted them to 13x13 square white pots and watered thoroughly.

Only three plants can fit in one of the storage totes, so I made it to where only two are in each tote.

I hooked up my other T5 HO fixture, suspended with rope ratchets. The other T5 fixture is a RADIION 324w 6lamp fixture with much less spacing between lamps.

I kinda butchered one of the plants so that I could get taller clones. The canopy on that plant is not really impressive, but I determined that these nodes werent really long enough to reach the screen to create an even canopy. Im going for consistency as well as quality. The clones are about 6" tall. Per legal requirements, I only took 5 clones. 4 plants flowering, 3 seedlings, 5 clones makes a total of 12. These clones are sitting in a humidity dome in a separate cab.


Once the clones are rooted, I will FIMM immediately. The seedlings of the Lemon Cake crossed with Alaskan Thunder Fuck I have are ALMOST on their third node and will also be ready for FIMM probably tomorrow.


I peeked this morning before going to work and before the lights shut off, all plants seem perky and healthy still. Im hoping I didnt over stress the plant I trimmed and then took larger nodes for clones. Hermies suck! Fortunately, its only the very beginning of flower cycle so I should be fine.

Ill take pics tonight/tomorrow after FIMM. I was tired last night and didnt have time this morning.