My First Grow - Pruning Help Needed

Hey all,

This is my first grow and i am 11 weeks from seed.

I messed up at the beginning and got the PH wrong, miss diagnosed this and started feeding nutes. Anyway she is back fighting fit and looking healthy.

I would like to start flowering in a couple of weeks or so and have now got onto reading about pruning and topping. So far i understand as follows, but please correct me if i am wrong.


Topping - Cutting the top off the main stem just above the highest last set off leave stems. This will then promote growth of two stems at the top which creates more bud sites. But this then slightly decreases the potency, than if the plant wasnt topped. Also this forces the plants energy into the branches which is better for flowering stage.


Pruning - Thining out the plant to let light penetrate into the center of the plant which promotes better bud growth during flowering. Not sure what is safe to prune when pruning?


So i am now at the stage of wanting to prun, but not to sure were to start. Either just top it or start pruning.

Also is it possible to top the branches that grow off the main stem? Would this then promote more branches as the topping would? And what effect would this have on the plant?

Bcos i messsed up at the beginning i really dont want to give the plant more stress. So would really appreciate some help.

Another thing is the bottom near the pot is really bushy, making it difficult to water evenly, so should i trim the lower branches?

Sorry one last thing guys. Where the branches grow off the main stem there is always two branches, one which grows and the other just have a large leaf, is this the fan leaves? And i also take it that the branches that grow longer will only grow as big as the genetics of the plant?

I have attached a couple of pics.


Thanks

Wow lots of questions! But good questions! I'm going to hit a few of them, and let someone else grab the rest.

I, personally, am a topper.

The first pic is a plant where I "topped" multiple times. (ie, I top once, then wait for it to grow 2 tops, then top both of those, for 4 tops, and so on and so on)


The second pic shows a plant that was topped just once at the top of the plant.


The pictures show you the difference between the 2.

I also love pruning. You can remove up to 40% of the plant. Where you cut you'll have new growth... and that encourage more branching and more bud sites - so definitey beneficial.

Of these 2 pictures, the plant in the second pic I pruned much more than the plant in the first pic

When you prune, prune evenly - so what you take from one side, take from the opposite side as well.

Don't over clip the bottom - the plant will do some natural stretching after you put it into flowering - and that will help raise it above your soil line. Bushy = better

Ok. Normally you would start to prune earlier, but its not too late.

Also is it possible to top the branches that grow off the main stem?
Yes

Would this then promote more branches as the topping would?
Not by the strict defintion of topping. FIM would. Ill explain in a bit.

And what effect would this have on the plant?
Those branches would not grow bigger and some bushiness, after the shock wears off.

...so should i trim the lower branches?
I say no. LST. Ill explain that as well.

...is this the fan leaves?
Yes. Look at those like the plants solar panels. You really want these so dont trim!!!

...branches that grow longer will only grow as big as the genetics of the plant?
Trick question. A lot has to do with genetics, but enviornment plays almost as an important role.


If you are more than a month away from flowering FIM and LST. If you are a month away or less than flowering LST (or bend).

In a nutshell, FIM (fuck i missed) is topping but only clipping the very very tip of the top of the plant, and leave most of the base of the new growth. As in, i meant to pinch off all of the new growth that has just sprouted but fuck i missed and only pinched off 2/3s of it. This will cause your plant to grow 2-4 new nodes at that site. You can FIM the new nodes once they start showing the growth of new leaves.

LST (low stress training) and bending is a non cutting pruning technique that is safe to do in all stages of the plant. Basically, you pull down on a branch, or the whole plant, so instead of growing UP it grows SIDEWAYS. This forces branches that are growing sideways to grow up and think its a main cola rather than just a shooter branch. It also allows for more light to get the bottom of the plant, because the enitre side of the plant is now the top and the top is now one of the sides.

There are more in depth descriptions in this forum but this will get you started as you research more.

First off I just want to let you know you need to stop stressing!
Lol, cannabis is a very durable plant, and can handle way more stress than people give her credit for...so no worries.
Now onto some edumication.
Topping can be done to any part of the plant, the lower you do it, the more full tops you have, if you go all the way to the bottom you can basically grow 2 nice colas in one pot.
Another thing on topping. It does NOT lower potency. Each strain has a sect amount of THC it produces into the trichomes, no matter how large, small, topped or not topped. That's a HUGE misconception with no backing. You will miss out on that one solid main cola, but will for sure make it up and gain weight because light hits through the canopy more completely and all of the lower buds get more light. Kind of like LST'ing.
Your pruning explination/question is a little vague, so I'll give a bit of input on the entire subject. There are brances that produce bud and flower sites, then directly above those on the main stock there are the plants main fan leaves, the main photosynthesizing leaves of the plant. You can definitely cut the lower few branches of the plant, since the light penetration is minimal, and they waste energy into bloom. However do NOT remove any of the fan leaves, those are the plants sugar factories, and you will stunt growth.
Hopefully I've covered all your questions, if not, feel free to ask for more clerification.

Ok. now that 3 people have said the same thing as if they were the only one talking, lets all disagree and confuse this guy.
The best part is, all of us were typing at the same time. Classic.

I can only say my first "outdoor" attempt I "LST'd" it and have started doing it on this indoor 2 as well, your all giving great advise! prune away!

pruning, i'v prun more types of trees ,shrubs,azaleas by selective pruning. every other plant i can't say or spell. herbs of every kind. vegs. from every where. have grown gourds, vanilla beans, tree ferns to wood ferns. daffodils and tulips of all kinds. i'm a retired caretaker. smoke 40yrs. just now can grow my own safe and under lock down. never look back. but with my girls seem all new! now i need to grow{me} into this life style!! I am the caretaker again, just new at it. this time its personal, so listen to these guys and learn! I HAVE!!

Lol, that's comedy, but it turned out well because we all had different styles of advice.
Good luck, and ASK MORE QUESTIONS!!!

Thank you all for the great advice.

OK, so now my plan of action:


Topping

Bcos i am close to flowering the best option to top would be FIM? This is done by pinching or cutting just below the new growth that has just sprouted. This will then grow 2 to 4 nodes at the cut site? How long should you leave after you have topped before you start flowering?


Pruning

Do NOT prune any fan leaves as they are the main source of energy for the plant?
When pruning ensure this is done evenly from both sides of the plant.
Is it true dense foilage will block out the and therefore restrict the grow of bud sites?

OK, so with pruning which parts should you prune?. I don’t know all the technical terms but here goes (please feel free to tell me correct names if you know them).

1) Branches that grow off the main stem? I have read that triming lower branches that this will then force the plant energy into the top of the plant, were there will be bigger better bud site. If you were to trim this, would you also have to take off the fan leaf that is attached to this branch?

2) Fan Leaves? Do not prune as this is the source of energy for that branch?

3) Branches that grow off the branches that grow from the main stem? Which ones are ok to prune?

How long should you leave after pruning before flowering.

Also is ok to top and prune at the same time or shoud you top, let it get over the stress and then prune?


OK, now onto budding

Do buds only grow on the internodes of branches where the little white hair looking bits appear during the vegstage?
Do the buds utilise the light as energy, or do the leaves still provided the energy and pass this onto the buds?


I am probably thinking about this too much............. lol


Another question that has just popped into my head, is it true that plants grow 2-3 times the size of the size when flowering starts?


Thanks

I think it would depend on the strain you are growing.I've been moving mine out the veg room at about 3 feet tall and by the time I harvest they are close to 4 1/2 - 5 foot sitting on the floor in the pots.Sometimes less.This grow is the first one using different strain's for me,so I will know more about this later.

Alright!
Let's see if I can touch on all your questions.
first of all your right in your assumption that FIMing is your best option at this point, if you want to prune at all. I personally don't use the FIM technique, it works ok, but I feel you miss out on the larger cola, at least from experience that's what I've seen.
Cutting the few lower branches from the bottom of the plant will help the plant be able to focus its energy on the branches above. I'd only remove the bottom few spindly looking ones, while keeping any that are strong and healthy looking. Do not take off any fan leaves from the main stock where you remove thos branches, they will continue to feed the plant.
I actually don't prune anything until a week or two AFTER I've started flowering. When the plant goes through its initial stretch, its easy to tell which branches will be produdtive, and which will just absorb energy. Pruning really doesn't add too much stress to the plant at all, I prune the CRAP out of my mothers, and they always give me excelet clones, and last for years.
The bud sites form at the internodes, and also the tips of the branches where the leaves are form into flowes too. They all will need as much light as possible, the ones getting light cannot support all of the bud sites alone, so you want to make sure everythingis geting as much light as possible. The LST technique is a good one for that!
There is no such thing as overthinking, that's just good planning!
Oh and your plants will stretch towards the light about 1.5x's to as much a 3x's during bloom.

I was just reading over this thread and found it very helpful. I just LST'd my first plant last night (its on a 24/0 light schedule) and this morning it was already bent 90 degrees and facing the light again!! I'm trying to make it grow in a circle as to make it stay short and stout and so my question is... What's the best way to make it go circular, and also if its bent sideways does the top still grow length or do the side nodes just grow tall?

And on another note, when is the best time to start adding sugar or molasses to the water? I was told during flowering but not sure when...

I'll try and post you some pictures cause it sounds as though were in about the same stages of growing, and maybe it'll give you an idea as to what to do...

Great post and happy growing

plant looks good and healthy. Looks like an indica dominant plant and you seem to have ample light and height so i dont think you have to top the plant at this point. Usually you want to start the process early especially when your space warrants it, but I would probably top it once and than put it right into bloom and your bottom branches will recieve more light and hormones and grow more colas.

If your pot is big enough you can tie the main branch down to it by drilling holes into the sides, and forming it around in a circle.
The main stem does continue to grow, so you should be able to bring it all the way around, it may make watering tricky, lol, but once its trained you can remove the ties and work with it from there.
as far as molassis, start adding it anytime, its an old school additive that benefits everything. You heard the old soil growers say, "feed the soil, not the plant"? Molassis does just that, on top of boosing carbohydrates for the plant, it also feeds the benificial bacterias in the soil.
Anyways, your onto a good idea, stick with it!

Really? Soo the question now is, how much? Use sugar water all the time or like every other watering...? And another thing, is this just for flowering or are you talking about using it when you are vegging also?

So with pruning, its better to see where the bud sites form and then prune as required if needed?

Hmmm, i just dont know what to do about topping!! Do it or not? I kind a gather from the responses i should of done this earlier. Should i just leave it for my first plant, and then try the different methods with a new crop?

If your looking for info on molasses, here's a link to a patient/provider forum I belong to, prepare to be over loaded with info, lol. All credit given to the author of course!
http://www.cannacare.org/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2200&highlight=3lbs

WeeMan1980 said:

So with pruning, its better to see where the bud sites form and then prune as required if needed?

Hmmm, i just dont know what to do about topping!! Do it or not? I kind a gather from the responses i should of done this earlier. Should i just leave it for my first plant, and then try the different methods with a new crop?

Click to expand...

That's your best bet, you may have a nice hybrid and get really nice branching and not have to prune much at all. But that's best determined after about a week and a half of bloomage.
You should definitely have topped sooner, your options now are LST and FIM'ing, which are both a little advanced, but still managable with a litle help.
My opinion if you wanted to try one of thos would be LST.
But my first choice would be to let her gro as natural as possible, and keep that main cola, you'll be quite impressed.

WeeMan1980 said:

Should i just leave it for my first plant, and then try the different methods with a new crop?

Click to expand...

If i were you, i'd leave it rather than bolloks it all up now.

Get your next crop growing and Top, FIM and LST away but dont prune the fan leaves if you want to improve your plants, if your having trouble getting light to the lower part of the plant then use supliment lighting, some cfl's at low level work well.

About how long does it take to train them so they will keep their positions once you remove the ties? Just trying to figure out how till I flower. Mine are only 6 weeks old and are still veggin cause I f'd up the timer I had... So I'm not gonna put it into flowering untill the lst is done... Unless I shouldn't...?