More THC testing – UVA vs UVB vs near-UV

Scuzzman

Well-Known Member
Will up grade to the Gen 2 models as the info and specs avaible are some of the best avaible to the public.:bigjoint: Not saying I understand it all but you ask and it will be explained by those involved in the design/build ( been given great info on getting the best from the lights)...

To many company's speak with forked tongue when they dont design and build products ( any one can buy, re-brand a product does not mean they design and build), to many of these so called companys will also have minions to do their social media and spin the crap for for them.. ;)
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
Will up grade to the Gen 2 models as the info and specs avaible are some of the best avaible to the public.:bigjoint: Not saying I understand it all but you ask and it will be explained by those involved in the design/build ( been given great info on getting the best from the lights)...

To many company's speak with forked tongue when they dont design and build products ( any one can buy, re-brand a product does not mean they design and build), to many of these so called companys will also have minions to do their social media and spin the crap for for them.. ;)
We appreciate your support @Scuzzman We have something coming out in the next few weeks that may interest you. We've revised the spectrum with more UVA and a small amount more Far Red. We also have a new propagation spectrum that contains more blue. We have a few more things in the pipeline we can't disclose yet, so if you're interested in anything just drop me a line and I will let you know what we can do.

One of the good things about the new spectra is the CRI. We have achieved CRI94 and CRI95. CRI95 is very beneficial to propagators as it allows them to see their seedlings in true light to determine how healthy they are.

We've also significantly increased the amount UVA and violet around 405nm. The overall efficiency of the spectrum has increased in terms of radiometric efficiency (currently 60.6%) but the umol/j efficiency will be slightly lower due to the Quantum Efficiency of Radiation (QER) of the new Nichia 405nm diodes being less than the 660nm diodes they replaced. The 405s are actually the same efficiency (over 70%) as the 660s, but as Planck's Law states, you need over 50% more energy to create a 405nm photon compared to a 660nm photon.

I will also have an update soon on some cannabinoid testing we have been doing comparing the addition of more 405nm.

I know I posted these earlier but here they are again.

New flowering spectrum, 3000K
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New propagation spectrum 3400K
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
We appreciate your support @Scuzzman We have something coming out in the next few weeks that may interest you. We've revised the spectrum with more UVA and a small amount more Far Red. We also have a new propagation spectrum that contains more blue. We have a few more things in the pipeline we can't disclose yet, so if you're interested in anything just drop me a line and I will let you know what we can do.

One of the good things about the new spectra is the CRI. We have achieved CRI94 and CRI95. CRI95 is very beneficial to propagators as it allows them to see their seedlings in true light to determine how healthy they are.

We've also significantly increased the amount UVA and violet around 405nm. The overall efficiency of the spectrum has increased in terms of radiometric efficiency (currently 60.6%) but the umol/j efficiency will be slightly lower due to the Quantum Efficiency of Radiation (QER) of the new Nichia 405nm diodes being less than the 660nm diodes they replaced. The 405s are actually the same efficiency (over 70%) as the 660s, but as Planck's Law states, you need over 50% more energy to create a 405nm photon compared to a 660nm photon.

I will also have an update soon on some cannabinoid testing we have been doing comparing the addition of more 405nm.


New flowering spectrum, 3000K
View attachment 5037809
View attachment 5037812

New propagation spectrum 3400K
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I don't pretend to know much about the finer points of UV light of various wavelengths on plant metabolism and resin production, but I do have a basic question about safety; at what wavelength does light become potentially damaging to the eyes?

I don't want a lamp that will give me macular degeneration. If I'm going to run UV lighting, I want it in a different fixture so I can run it on a different schedule- and most importantly, be able to shut it off when I'm in the room.
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
Hi mate, I'm not a doctor but as far as I know all light is potentially damaging to eyes so it's just a matter of how long you spend under each wavelength. The sun is much more powerful than most LEDs and usually has a lot more UV at certain times of day and yet we still go outside and spend time playing sport or swimming or just walking the dog. The point at which it becomes dangerous to the eyes is the point at which we look at it! :lol:

Jokes aside I am sure that working under UVB for even short periods can be dangerous if you are not wearing glasses and there may even be the potential to get sunburn. I recall there was a lot of concern about CFL bulbs being used in offices around the world when they first became popular due to the UV emissions. Fluorescent bulbs produce a UV plasma that is converted to visible light by a phosphor but some of the UV still escapes through the phosphor. The good thing about UVB is that it is easily blocked by light.

This is something we probably haven't explored as much in this thread and that is the fact that UVA penetrates more than UVB. So UVA can reach deeper into the cell structure than UVB. In plants, this can activate more chloroplasts to drive photomorphogenic responses. In humans, it can cause more long-term DNA damage or faster aging.

We use 405nm diodes in our boards that spill into the UVA range down to about 385nm. Those diodes are hard to look at. We noticed this when we first started making prototypes how much harder it was to look at one of our lights compared to a normal white phosphor (blue-pump) LED. But even then I would not expect it to be as damaging as deep UVA or UVB. The trouble with UVB is that it is invisible to our eyes so we might not know how much we are damaging them. But I would rather work under long-wave UVA than short-wave UVB. That is another reason why we are exploring the benefits of UVA vs UVB as it is safer to work under for short periods.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Ah, I'm going to regret posting this, but I think the record needs to be set straight and for that I'm going to need to address at least one post by @jimihendrix1 and for that – sorry @Grow Lights Australia – to be fair I believe he needs the right of reply.

I sincerely hope he doesn't spew out one of his stupid copy-and-paste efforts again and actually takes the time to read and respond to this post in his own words . . . but if he does start C&Ping all over the place, you can blame me first and kick his arse second! :bigjoint:

I also don't want to turn this into an exercise in taking down Solacure. I'm not here to disparage another lighting manufacturer, but facts are facts.

OK, let's first look at the Solacure spectrum . . . What do we see? Why, it is similar to almost every other UV bulb out there! Why is this not a surprise? I will explain below . . .

1638277388602.png

Fluorescent lamps are pretty much all the same. They all use low-pressure mercury-vapour gas and excite it with electrodes until the gas heats up to a certain temperature to form a plasma that emits photons in the UVC range (yes, UVC). They all use pretty much the same technology and the only main differences between traditional fluorescent lamps are the types of phosphor – which convert the UVC into UVB, UVA and visible light (essentially just like an LED converts blue light into other spectra) – and the size. There may be also be differences in glass quality.

Despite what @jimihendrix1 says, the Solacure bulb emits most of its light around 350nm with a spike at 365nm. This fact alone pretty much refutes all his earlier statements. There's no kind way to put it.

Look at the light at 285nm. If you count the area under the curve (yes, all those little squares) there is about 1% light output from 280-290nm. There may be even less depending on what is cut off after 400nm by the graph.

Now that is 1% of what? Well, @Grow Lights Australia is going to hate me again, because this is the reason why you shouldn't upset Shane at Migro – he does a lot of good comparisons. When Shane compared the Solacure with other UVB bulbs in its range, he discovered it is only 4% efficient.


4%!!! @jimihendrix1 posted earlier that the Solacure bulb had 1400mW output from a 40W bulb. Well 1.4W divided by 40W equals . . . 3.5% So that's close enough. 1% of 4% is . . . 0.04% emission from 280-290nm. That's not really as bad as it sounds, because as I explained earlier, the amount of sunlight that hits the earth in the 280-290nm range is also infinitesimal.

The Solacure bulb does have special glass – because normal glass has iron in it that blocks UV – and that is how it can emit as low as it does. But that doesn't change the physics of how a fluorescent bulb works. They all emit around 254nm. And that's why the Solacure has a phosphor (compared to a UVC lamp that has no phosphor). The Solacure is simply a UVC lamp (that has clearer glass than other lamps) with a phosphor.

For comparison, the Nichia 405nm LEDs that have gone into the latest GLA panels (which – full disclosure – I helped design) are around 72% efficient.

Let that sink in for a minute.
 

jimihendrix1

Well-Known Member
Nope, the Solacure bulb is a complete UVA/B bulb, but it is strongest fluroescent bulb made in the 280nm-300nm range. I stated earlier the Solacure also produces alot of UVA. UVA is also important, and works synergistically with UVB. It has peaks in the 280nm-300nm range, and also goes all the way up to around 400nm. 385nm has a synergistic affect with 285nm. Ive never said UVA isnt important, and I never said the SC doesnt produce strong UVA. Nope. Never did. It has a similar UVA output as the sun. It is 4x stronger than the sun in the UVB range.
]
The Solacure is not just a UVB bulb.
The color temperature of the Solacure is 10,000k.

The Agromaax also emits both wavelengths. The reason I picked the Solacure over the Agromax was because the SC is T12 vs T8, and the Solacure has a built in reflector. Solacure aso makes a T8, but says the T12 is more powerful, due to physical mass.

The Solacure spectrum uses many of the same spectral peaks in UVA range as the SG-1, but is 3 to 4 times stronger in the UVB, while still having a solid UVA profile. Solacure designed their lamps with a sun similar UVA spectrum because they say they have good reason to think it is also very beneficial for UV started plants. The UVA to UVB ratio is very different than the sun, however, as the effective ratio is about 4 times higher than the sun. This is why you can use half as many lamps and still get twice as much UVB.
You also dont have to run the Solacure continuously allowing you to work with your plants without fear of blinding oneself.

Westinghouse was the first company to manufacture fluorescent lamps having a phosphor to convert the UV-C to UV-B and UV-A instead of the usual visible light

The University of Maryland study, done on marijuana, used a Westinghouse FS40 bulb. Not Solacure. It is also T12, and 40w.

The guy at HLG LED also recommends the Solacure. He was in on the earlier dicsussion.

HLG
Hey, Stephen, so nice to hear from you. I often wonder if just getting a reptile UV tube isn't enough... I know they are damn cheap these days. They work..... Also try solacure. The owner is a stand up guy and everyone I recommended them to swears by them.

PadawanWarrior said:
I actually just wanted to get my buds a little frostier. I think my CMH buds had more frost, but my QB's grow denser buds. I like to mix CMH with QB's, but I was thinking if I just add some UV I might get back to the same amount of crystals without needings the CMH.

It could just be that I'm doing stuff a little different now too. My humidity has also been a lot lower lately so that might be it too. And I'm trying no-till so it could be nutrients too.

Give the solacure a shot. You will not be disappointed

PadawanWarrior said:
I only run those for a few hours a day correct, or can I run them 12/12 like the rest of my lights?

Thanks again.
Just a few hrs a day. They are super powerful. Dennis Brown the owner has lots of data on how long to run them. He has different bulbs with different recommended run times. Shoot him an email. He's a really good guy.






Sorry, your gotcha moment was a failure.
 
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Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
What does a light pigment (photoreceptor) absorption curve tell us?

I'm not a plant biologist and I have only a rudimentary understanding of plant receptors. But in simple terms, photoreceptors are pigments that absorb photons and pass the energy from those photons through an electron chain that is used for either photosynthesis (plant growth) or photomorphogenesis (plant structure and other compounds).

Photons of light are captured (absorbed) and the energy from those photons is harvested to make sugars (photosynthesis) or specialised cells (photomorphogenesis). There are by-products of each of these processes, but let's not worry about that for now.

So we know black surfaces absorb most light and white surfaces reflect most light. We know that a green surface absorbs red and blue light but reflects mostly green light. The absorption/reflection spectra are not absolute. A black surface still reflects some photons. A white surface still absorbs some photons. A green surface still aborbs some green photons. Etc.

1638280925927.png

In case you missed it earlier, this is the UVR8 pigment absorption curve. What it tells us is that when light shines on this receptor, it will absorb photons of certain wavelengths better than others. In the above graph you can see that the pigment readily absorbs photons in the 285nm range but does not absorb photons of other wavelengths as readily.

You can see above that – all things being equal – the UVR8 pigment will absorb 4x as many 285nm photons as 300nm photons. That means if you have equal amounts of 285nm and 300nm light and shine them both on the pigment, then 4x as many 285nm photons will be harvested and converted into electron energy to power whatever processes UVR8 is responsible for.

The other photons are either reflected or absorbed as heat energy (as opposed to excting the electron chain).

This is all relative of course because only a very small fraction of light that hits a plant is actually absorbed by its pigments. In the case of photosynthesis driven by the Chlorophyll A and B pigments, only about 4% of all light is converted to photosynthetic energy. And of that light, the majority is made up of the photons that coincide with the Chl A and Chl B absorption peaks – around 420-480nm on the blue side, and 620-680nm on the red side (there is debate about exactly where peak absorbtion in Chl A and B lies, with some studies claiming it is as low as 372nm/642nm for Chl A and 392nm/626 for Chl B).

However, peak absorption does not tell the full story. In fact, any photons that are within the curve can be absorbed and converted to electron energy to power whatever process the receptor is responsible for. It simply means that the lower the abosption rate, the more photons are needed to produce the same amount of convertible energy.

This explains why horticultural LED manufacturers go to such lengths to produce light that coincides with peak Chlorophyll absorption. Because it is the most efficient way to drive photosynthesis (and other processes if we look at other absorption curves).

HOWEVER, the efficiency of the light source must also be taken into account!

In the above UVR8 graph, if it takes more than 4x the energy to produce a 285nm photon compared to a 300nm photon, then it will take more energy to produce the same response in a plant using 285nm light than it will using 300nm light – even though the receptor is more sensitive to 285nm light.

Are you all with me so far? Good :eyesmoke:

All this is leading up to the fact that some light sources are more efficient than others (LEDs vs fluorescent bulbs, for example) and that it may be more efficient to produce a photon that doesn't coincide with an absorption peak than one that does.

In mathematical terms it is simply the efficiency of the light source multiplied by the percentage of absorption multiplied by time that gives us the total response (assuming time to response in linear – plants simply stop photosynthesising when their pigments are saturated).

Let's go back to that Solacure spectral graph and have a look at the light produced around 310nm. Let's assume that 15% of the light is emitted from 305-315nm. If we check the UVR8 response curve, we can see that these wavelengths elicit a UVR8 response that is about 10% compared to 280-290nm absorption. 10% of 15% is 1.5%. That means 1.5% of the total light emitted by the bulb drives UVR8 response.

In the case of 280-290nm light, however, only 1% of the emitted light is in this range, and 1% of 100% is – you guessed it – 1%!

So, in this (hypothetical) case, 305-315nm light is 1.5% (50 per cent) more efficient at driving UVR8 than 280-290nm light – even though the response curve favours 280-290nm light!

I hope I haven't confused everyone and please, don't take the above figures as gospel – they are intended only to highlight the way photoreceptors work and to simplify the process so that we can all understand the correlation between photon absorption and lighting efficiency.
 

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Ah, I'm going to regret posting this, but I think the record needs to be set straight and for that I'm going to need to address at least one post by @jimihendrix1 and for that – sorry @Grow Lights Australia – to be fair I believe he needs the right of reply.

I sincerely hope he doesn't spew out one of his stupid copy-and-paste efforts again and actually takes the time to read and respond to this post in his own words . . . but if he does start C&Ping all over the place, you can blame me first and kick his arse second! :bigjoint:

I also don't want to turn this into an exercise in taking down Solacure. I'm not here to disparage another lighting manufacturer, but facts are facts.

OK, let's first look at the Solacure spectrum . . . What do we see? Why, it is similar to almost every other UV bulb out there! Why is this not a surprise? I will explain below . . .

View attachment 5037937

Fluorescent lamps are pretty much all the same. They all use low-pressure mercury-vapour gas and excite it with electrodes until the gas heats up to a certain temperature to form a plasma that emits photons in the UVC range (yes, UVC). They all use pretty much the same technology and the only main differences between traditional fluorescent lamps are the types of phosphor – which convert the UVC into UVB, UVA and visible light (essentially just like an LED converts blue light into other spectra) – and the size. There may be also be differences in glass quality.

Despite what @jimihendrix1 says, the Solacure bulb emits most of its light around 350nm with a spike at 365nm. This fact alone pretty much refutes all his earlier statements. There's no kind way to put it.

Look at the light at 285nm. If you count the area under the curve (yes, all those little squares) there is about 1% light output from 280-290nm. There may be even less depending on what is cut off after 400nm by the graph.

Now that is 1% of what? Well, @Grow Lights Australia is going to hate me again, because this is the reason why you shouldn't upset Shane at Migro – he does a lot of good comparisons. When Shane compared the Solacure with other UVB bulbs in its range, he discovered it is only 4% efficient.


4%!!! @jimihendrix1 posted earlier that the Solacure bulb had 1400mW output from a 40W bulb. Well 1.4W divided by 40W equals . . . 3.5% So that's close enough. 1% of 4% is . . . 0.04% emission from 280-290nm. That's not really as bad as it sounds, because as I explained earlier, the amount of sunlight that hits the earth in the 280-290nm range is also infinitesimal.

The Solacure bulb does have special glass – because normal glass has iron in it that blocks UV – and that is how it can emit as low as it does. But that doesn't change the physics of how a fluorescent bulb works. They all emit around 254nm. And that's why the Solacure has a phosphor (compared to a UVC lamp that has no phosphor). The Solacure is simply a UVC lamp (that has clearer glass than other lamps) with a phosphor.

For comparison, the Nichia 405nm LEDs that have gone into the latest GLA panels (which – full disclosure – I helped design) are around 72% efficient.

Let that sink in for a minute.
It comes out as 16mW of 280-290nm, the same you get for a decent speced uvb led ran at around 1w.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
Sorry, your gotcha moment was a failure.
Well I don't know any other way to interpret your previous posts, but you do seem to be shifting the goalposts. Perhaps that is a sign that you are finally accepting the science. At least you are not polluting this thread with more C&P dumps.

The Migro peaks at 310nm, and the Solacure is most powerful at 280nm-300nm in the UVB range.
:roll: You said it. You have also been pretty adamant about UVR8 not being triggered by other wavelengths – first claiming only 285nm would do the job, and then UVB in general. But let's move on from there.

The Agromaax also emits both wavelengths. The reason I picked the Solacure over the Agromax was because the SC is T12 vs T8, and the Solacure has a built in reflector. Solacure aso makes a T8, but says the T12 is more powerful, due to physical mass.
According to Migrow, the Agromax not only covers the 280-290nm region on par with the Solacure, it is also 3x more efficient (12% vs 4% mW efficiency).

1638285112991.png

As I said, I'm not here to bash Solacure. But when I have a little more time I will extrapolate some of the of the ideas I have posted to show why LED-produced UVA may well be more efficient than fluoro-produced UVB at eliciting UVR8 response. It's should be a simple case of mathematical efficiencies – all else being equal.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
It comes out as 16mW of 280-290nm, the same you get for a decent speced uvb led ran at around 1w.
Haha! You da man as always. So 1.6% efficiency in the case of the UVB LED?

You do know I am not against UVB, but in our experience the main problem with UVB is that it degenerates cannabinoids much faster than other forms of light, so there is more margin for error if you overcook it. It also impacts dry yields.

So my main argument is, if UVB shrinks dry yields at the same time it increases THC percentages – assuming that the same UVB does not also break down the THC prior to harvest (as we have seen in some experiments where UVB lights were used for too long) – then the total amount of THC may actually be less than if dry yields were higher at a lower percentage.

It may also be a false economy: it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the THC percentage goes up precisely because the plant mass yield goes down.

As always, it may well come down to the usual debate about yield vs quality. Commercial growers may favour yield, personal growers may favour quality. But medicinal growers would probably favour total production of cannabinoids - because that's how they make their money.
 

Prawn Connery

Well-Known Member
The conclusion is there are many ways to skin a cat.

Our first experiments looked at UVB vs UVA/violet and we ourselves were surprised that UVA/violet could be just as effecive – if not more – than UVB.

We started looking closer at what was going on as each test we did showed the same results: we were getting higher % of THC, CBD and other cannabinoids with the use of UVA/violet than with UVB. Both forms of UV were higher than no UV at all.

So far we have reached a few of conclusions. The first is that UVA/violet does trigger the UVR8 pathway, but that this pathway does not account for all canabinoid production (which we believe is mostly genetic).

The second conclusion is that perhaps in each case there was too much UVB exposure. So while UVB does promote cannabinoid production, it also destroys it through futher exposure. That means there must be an optimal amount of time for UVB exposure otherwise you negate the effects.

We also concluded that UVA/violet was not only much safer to work under, it was more forgiving: we could use it for 12 hours a day and it gave a very good increase in cannabinoid production – in most cases around 20-25% or more.

Finally, we concluded that UVA/violet had the added benefit of also targetting photosynthetic pigments so that yields did not suffer. We further discovered that we could add in large amounts of Far Red to speed up flowering times without impacting yields and without excessive stetch, as UVA/violet/blue all supress cell expansion.

What that all means is there seem to be more advantages to running UVA/violet than UVB. This includes effiency and cost. LEDs last a lot longer than fluoros and their efficiency is not only much higher, but LEDs maintain efficiency throughout their life compared to other forms of lighting.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
The conclusion is there are many ways to skin a cat.

Our first experiments looked at UVB vs UVA/violet and we ourselves were surprised that UVA/violet could be just as effecive – if not more – than UVB.

We started looking closer at what was going on as each test we did showed the same results: we were getting higher % of THC, CBD and other cannabinoids with the use of UVA/violet than with UVB. Both forms of UV were higher than no UV at all.

So far we have reached a few of conclusions. The first is that UVA/violet does trigger the UVR8 pathway, but that this pathway does not account for all canabinoid production (which we believe is mostly genetic).

The second conclusion is that perhaps in each case there was too much UVB exposure. So while UVB does promote cannabinoid production, it also destroys it through futher exposure. That means there must be an optimal amount of time for UVB exposure otherwise you negate the effects.

We also concluded that UVA/violet was not only much safer to work under, it was more forgiving: we could use it for 12 hours a day and it gave a very good increase in cannabinoid production – in most cases around 20-25% or more.

Finally, we concluded that UVA/violet had the added benefit of also targetting photosynthetic pigments so that yields did not suffer. We further discovered that we could add in large amounts of Far Red to speed up flowering times without impacting yields and without excessive stetch, as UVA/violet/blue all supress cell expansion.

What that all means is there seem to be more advantages to running UVA/violet than UVB. This includes effiency and cost. LEDs last a lot longer than fluoros and their efficiency is not only much higher, but LEDs maintain efficiency throughout their life compared to other forms of lighting.
Back to safety for a moment; UVA isn't as bad as UVB light for ones eyes, but it's still not recommended to work in such an environment without eye protection, correct? Does it therefore make more sense to build UV specific fixtures that can't be run on a separate circuit? What would such a lamp cost and what might it look like?
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
I think what Prawn is saying is that if you work outdoors under the sun then that has the potential to be far more damaging to eyes than working under UVA LEDs which mostly don't go below 365nm. We use 405nm and other manufacturers that include UVA mostly use 385-405nm but I wouldn't consider those wavelengths to be too damaging unless you looked at them directly or were exposed for very long periods of time. If you are running UVB then yes you would need to put it on a seperate channel so that you can limit it to a few hours a day, preferably when you weren't working under it.

We put UVA on one channel because it's easier and more economical. With our lights you don't need to buy supplementary UV and Far Red diodes with matching drivers and separate timers. Everything runs off one driver and the UVA can shine for 12 hours with good results. We set out to design and make a "true" full spectrum LED board with everything plants need. LOL, that statement reminds me of the movie "Idiocracy".

"It's what plants crave!"
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
You really need to wear eye protection no matter what lights you are working under. HPS lamps only have a small amount of residual UVA and you wouldn't work under them without eye protection. I think no matter what lights you work under you need to take precautions but UVB is particularly dangerous because when you look directly at it it does not appear to be very bright. When you look at other lights, including UVA, your natural instinct is to look away.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
You really need to wear eye protection no matter what lights you are working under. HPS lamps only have a small amount of residual UVA and you wouldn't work under them without eye protection. I think no matter what lights you work under you need to take precautions but UVB is particularly dangerous because when you look directly at it it does not appear to be very bright. When you look at other lights, including UVA, your natural instinct is to look away.
In America (and surely elsewhere) there's a government work safety standards agency known as OSHA, for Occupational Health and Safety Administration. They offer guidelines for what's acceptable exposure to everything from rock dust to chemicals of all kinds to radioactivity and, yes, acceptable limits of various kinds of light. I will do a bit of investigating to see what their standards are and report back.

That said, wearing sunglasses to trim and train plants sucks because it limits your vision and makes it harder to see what you're doing. They also make it harder to spot problems and pests.

Standard LED lights do not emit UV wavelengths; that requires special LED chips. I think the ability to safely work under LED light without the intrinsic need for eye protection is an advantage worth designing for.

We all know damn well that people ignore safety guidelines all the time so this really should be a no brainer. I can certainly see massive class action lawsuits against lighting manufacturers in the future for "knowingly" contributing to vision problems if they don't pay careful attention to such guidelines and best practices.

Don't get me wrong, I do NOT want this to be seen as taking a shit on the desirability of using UV light in indoor gardening. It's far too valuable and useful to outlaw. That said, I will be clear; I'll have no part of lighting that doesn't put the short and long term safety and well being of people working with them FIRST. And no lighting manufacturer should either.

From a practical point of view, then, I believe that we're looking at separate circuits and likely separate fixtures for UV supplementation so they can be turned off while people are present. This doesn't have to be a bad thing; running such lights to provide the best possible UV enhancement on a separate lighting system should be able to provide the desired benefits, save energy, emulate nature's midday UV emissions (should that be desirable), allow for optimal positioning, and be easily turned off while people are working. They would also be compatible with pretty much every light currently available, which dramatically increases potential market size.
 

Grow Lights Australia

Well-Known Member
While you raise a very good point I think it needs to be put into perspective. If you have lived or worked in an area lit by any type of fluorescent lighting then you have been exposed to more UV than a typical LED. Even horticultural LEDs that contain long wave UVA above 365nm only emit a fraction of their light in this region. Our lights have 0.5% UVA for example and this is from about 390nm onwards. Fluorescent lights emit UVB as well as UVA. Human eyes and skin actually benefit from a small amount of UVA exposure that helps us to produce Vitamin D.

I'm not sure how many of us here are medical practitioners so I can't offer advice but I did find this Canadian article that might help answer some questions. I have highlighted the relevant text.

Are there occupational exposure limits?

There are no Canadian regulatory occupational exposure limits for UV radiation. Many jurisdictions follow the limits recommended by the American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH). These limits are given below:

1. For the UV-A or near ultraviolet spectral region (315 to 400 nm), exposure to the eye should not exceed 1 milliwatt per square centimeter (1.0 mW/cm2) for periods greater than 1000 seconds (approximately 16 minutes). For exposure times less than 1000 seconds, the dose (total energy) should not exceed 1.0 J/cm2. Additional exposure limits apply to the amount of UV light exposure to the skin and the eyes. The amount of UV exposure a person can receive on their skin or eyes during an 8-hour period varies with the wavelength of the UV radiation. For specifics, you can consult the Ultraviolet Radiation section of the current edition of the ACGIH publication Threshold Limit Values for Chemical Substances and Physical Agents and Biological Exposure Indices®.
2. For the actinic ultraviolet spectral region (200-315 nm; about half of the UV-C and most of the UV-B range), see the TLVs referred to in the current TLV booklet published by ACGIH.



For UVA the exposure limit is 1mW per cm2 for 16 minutes a day. We normally recommend around 320W per square meter for our lights. 0.5% of that is 1.6W. 1.6W over 10,000 cm2 (1 m2) is 0.16mW. So our lights are not only well under that recommendation, the actual UVA is right near the 400nm end of the spectrum which is the least harmful. 320nm radiation is 25% more powerful than 400nm so you could argue that safe exposure under 400nm could be 25% longer. I am only guessing so I don't know if that is true.

Here is a diagram from the same link that also puts things into perspective. You can see that it is pretty much all over by 320nm.
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Honestly I think most growers shouldn't be concerned by a very small amount of UVA in the grow room which is much less powerful than the light they are exposed to as soon as they step outside into the sun. I still think anyone working for long periods under artificial lights in a grow room should wear eye protection. But I don't see a problem with taking those glasses off when you need to as long as you are not looking directly at any light or glare. This is my opinion. We know a lot of growers who have been growing under our lights for a few years now and none of them have had any issues that I am aware of. Office workers spend many hours under fluorescent bulbs and I would be more concerned about that.

If we are talking about exposure to UVB then that is a different kettle of fish.
 
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