Money is a gateway drug.

Hey Jax.

I disagree, when they ask for public money their business dealings cease to be private.

The private citizen can't get public money without being questioned about financial matters first. Why should a private company be any different?

They went to the government and asked for money to stay in business and avoid layoffs. They never once said "We need some money so we can cut ourselves hefty bonus checks". Had they told the actual truth, they wouldn't have gotten the money in the first place. They lied for the sake of embezzlement.


As for the eventual arguement that they need to pay the bonus to retain the employees, let them quit, find some new talent that will require less pay and do a better job. In this job market it wouldn't take long to fill those empty desks.

CrackerJax said:

Frankly it's not anyone's business who gets how much of a bonus except the stockholders of that particular company. Once the Govt. gets involved in the private sector, things go haywire. Now you will see the real talent avoid these companies and they will under perform.

out.

Click to expand...

CrackerJax said:

Frankly it's not anyone's business who gets how much of a bonus except the stockholders of that particular company. Once the Govt. gets involved in the private sector, things go haywire. Now you will see the real talent avoid these companies and they will under perform.

out.

Click to expand...

So, you're supposing those culpable were the real talent. God help us if this is the best managers our private sector has. No wonder you're a "success". All one has to be is a dumb-ass that follows orders from the criminals at the top, Suck.....suck.....suck!

MISSHESTERMOFFITT,

You are too ignorant to get it!

Who made which decisions that cost the company, and who just did their job like any other good employee?

You in your infinite wisdom have decided that anyone with an executive title is evil - guess what: executives answer to higher-ups just like secretaries and janitors.

Just because they are executives does not mean that they had any say in the decisions that led to this - every discission made was not the wrong one, and every employee's actions did not lead to this.

Some of the executives did their job well just like any other employee, and you can't sit back and decide that none of them deserve their pay because some made stupid decisions.

They have legally binding contracts, if they met the criteria to earn the bonus they must be paid.

AIG has many different divisions, and some divisions are still profitable - not everyone failed in this.

If Walmart decided not to pay their employees per contract would that be fair? You can't pick out one group to not pay per contract without effecting every group.

If I had my own company I'd adopt a Ben and Jerry's pay scale, any extra profits can go back into the company for improvments or into the bank just in case.

There's where they go wrong, they never want to save anything back just in case. They had some idea that the cash would just keep on flowing in and when the flow was disrupted, they had nothing to fall back on.

Kind of makes me think of a pyramid......

We also need to consider that AIG is an insurance company, if they've needed 2 bailouts in the last 6 months just to maintain day to day operations, what is going to happen if there is a disaster and they suddenly have a bunch of claims to pay out on? They'll declare bankruptcy and those who have paid premiums in to them for years will be the ones who are screwed.

When that happens, that will cause an even greater downturn of the economy. AIG insures a lot of businesses you know. Let's think of those jobs, the ones down the road that you can't see from here.

One of the main reasons things went haywire in the private sector is because the Govt. set the game board up for failure. The govt. meddled and is now surprised that it got away from them. I don't see pol's giving back their salaries. Oh wait, they just gave themselves a RAISE!!

That Geithner is a friggin LIAR too. It was he who injected that bit into the stimulus package and then acted like he didn't know anything. Only now that the problem refuses to get brushed aside does he do a mea culpa.

If the Govt. hadn't fiddled and faddled with the private sector, NONE of this would be happening today.

This entire situation was completely avoidable, but like raul emmanual said, "Never let a crisis go to waste." Despicable.


out.

The legally binding contracts state that they employee has the right to quit if they don't get their retention bonus. If they feel they can no longer work without a bonus worth millions, then show them the door, good luck to them on finding a better deal.

I think you have BONUS confused with PAYCHECK.

They are still getting their SALARIES, they just have to live without the BONUS.



Which ones are innocent in this mess? Got any names yet? I'm waiting.

angelsbandit said:

You are too ignorant to get it!

Who made which decisions that cost the company, and who just did their job like any other good employee?

You in your infinite wisdom have decided that anyone with an executive title is evil - guess what: executives answer to higher-ups just like secretaries and janitors.

Just because they are executives does not mean that they had any say in the decisions that led to this - every discission made was not the wrong one, and every employee's actions did not lead to this.

Some of the executives did their job well just like any other employee, and you can't sit back and decide that none of them deserve their pay because some made stupid decisions.

They have legally binding contracts, if they met the criteria to earn the bonus they must be paid.

If Walmart decided not to pay their employees per contract would that be fair? You can't pick out one group to not pay per contract without effecting every group.

Click to expand...

2 quarters of record losses and they give this guy a 4 million dollar bonus on top of the other 43 million he was walking away with?

Raise your hand if that is stupid, piss poor business sense.




American International Group said it paid a $47 million severance package to former Chief Executive Martin J. Sullivan, whose resignation took effect on Tuesday.
Sullivan, who left his position in mid-June after two quarters of record losses at AIG AMERICAN INTL GROUP INC
AIG


1.21 -0.41 -25.31%
NYSE

Quote | Chart | News | Profile
[AIG 1.21 -0.41 (-25.31%) ] , will receive severance of $15 million, and a bonus of $4 million for the portion of the year he worked, according to a regulatory filing.
Sullivan also will hold on to outstanding equity and long-term cash awards valued at about $28 million, the filing said.

perhaps misshestermoffitt has herd of this silly thing called the constitution.....
you can not single someone out with a tax rate. either everyone gets taxed at 90% or nobody does.
you can not revisit a contract after the fact and change the terms without both parties in agreement.

While I'm pissed that it HAS to be paid, the bonuses need to be paid....
Whats the issue, the bonuses or the fact that congress and the president signed off on the bonuses???

I'm not willing to revisit the constitution with a loop hole of 90% tax and the gov't can change a contract when it feels to do so.
the swearing in of congress is to protect the constitution, not their mistakes.
the bush white house and the democratic congress has viewed the constitution as something that needs to be worked around. Both can and should be charged with treason, and we need the death penalty reinstated for treason!

misshestermoffitt,
I think it is you who are confused - bonuses included in someones contracted benifit package are: earned pay, no diffferent from your hourly pay.

You cannot change employment contracts after the fact without harming everyone. As I said before: would it be OK to not pay hourly employees because the president of the company made poor decisions?

lol a 100 million would end up being lawer retainers fighting this bullshit in court...
I propose this is what the congress wants, they want to put this as far from them as can be(timeline wise)
does it sound like congress is worried about taking a losing case to court for yrs? or is that the point??

joepro said:

perhaps misshestermoffitt has herd of this silly thing called the constitution.....
you can not single someone out with a tax rate. either everyone gets taxed at 90% or nobody does.
you can not revisit a contract after the fact and change the terms without both parties in agreement.

While I'm pissed that it HAS to be paid, the bonuses need to be paid....
Whats the issue, the bonuses or the fact that congress and the president signed off on the bonuses???

I'm not willing to revisit the constitution with a loop hole of 90% tax and the gov't can change a contract when it feels to do so.
the swearing in of congress is to protect the constitution, not their mistakes.
the bush white house and the democratic congress has viewed the constitution as something that needs to be worked around. Both can and should be charged with treason, and we need the death penalty reinstated for treason!

Click to expand...

yes, the proposed tax hike on these bonuses are indeed unconstitutional and I expect aggressive legal action against it once the headlines have served their purposes for the Pol's... as usual. it's a typical carny trick. HOPE...CHANGE... RIGHT (uh huh)...

out.

Then I guess the blame goes to the dipshit that decided that a bonus was atomatic no matter how piss poor a person's performance is.

So how many of you are running out and buying insurance from AIG?

What happens when they can't pay out on claims?

Who's going to pick up the pieces of the individuals who paid in to them under the impression that they would get paid back if there was ever a problem?

2 bailouts in 6 months which means here in about June they'll be filing for bankruptcy since they won't be getting another bailout.


Last year my husbands company gave everyone a $200 bonus at Christmas time. We didn't factor that in as "future income" they had a good year and they tossed a little cash. We in no way shape or form expect a bonus this year. If he gets one, goody, if not, that's the breaks. I don't think I'll sue over it, maybe it's because I'm not addicted to money.

You have all proven my point. These people in charge of these companies are so addicted to money that look how far they are willing to go to get their hands on it.

What a shame, not only that they feel they'll die without those million dollar bonus checks, but that you all are willing to bend over and take it up the ass to make sure they get their millions of dollars in bonus funds.

You've all proven my point with your arguements in favor of bailout bonus bucks.

misshestormoffitt,

What part of: THEY HAD A CONTRACT DON'T YOU GET?

The bonus is part of their employment contract, and you can't just go change contracts after the fact.

With the ignorance you show it is no wonder the country is in trouble.

yes, the bonus contracts were already in place before this. it's just political showboating and a DIVERSION for public consumption. It's what the Govt. does best....point fingers while they steal your pie.


out.

IF THEY WANT TO STAY AFLOAT, THEY'LL BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO RESCIND THAT CONTRACT.

Don't give them money and let them fail, what good is a contract for a bonus if the business is closed?


Projected US deficit for 2009 1.85 trillion dollars.

When they go crying for other peoples money, their contract becomes null and void.

Like I said, THEY ARE SO ADDICTED TO MONEY, LOOK HOW FAR THEY ARE WILLING TO GO TO GET MORE.


You haven't come up with the names of the innocent yet.

You also haven't come up with a solution for when they have a bunch of claims to pay out and they can't do it because they aren't even taking in enough money to stay in business without help.

I don't think you get it. If they don't have enough cash to stay in business on a day to day basis, how can they pay out on claims if there is a disaster?

We're propping up a lemon. They should be let to fail so RESPONSIBLE insurance compaines who have some business sense can take over their clients.

I think you should go get some AIG insurance, no worries if you ever have a claim, they'll declare bankruptcy and give you the finger.

angelsbandit said:

misshestormoffitt,

What part of: THEY HAD A CONTRACT DON'T YOU GET?

The bonus is part of their employment contract, and you can't just go change contracts after the fact.

With the ignorance you show it is no wonder the country is in trouble.

Click to expand...

must you keep attacking her personaly?
shes pissed and wants repercussions taken. We all do, but no matter what we must stay within our constitution, thats where her and I disagree.
congress was smart to say, we will not give AIG a dime more without giving back the bonuses. they should have left it has that...but that doesn't save face with the voters, so we have this dog and pony show going on..

AIG is a huge Corporate conglomerate. What is making the headlines is a drop in the proverbial bucket. Of course the media doesn't report it that way.

Facts are that Obama doesn't have the stomach to let them fail. If he did, then he couldn't control them which is what he thinks he can do. tears, it will all end in tears, and the very people who elected him will be CRUSHED. Tick tock,


out.

it will be really interesting year to see what happens with obama and co.

Thanks Joe, I just ignore the personal attacks as blithering drivel from an uneducated person who never learned proper debate techniques.

joepro said:

must you keep attacking her personaly?
shes pissed and wants repercussions taken. We all do, but no matter what we must stay within our constitution, thats where her and I disagree.
congress was smart to say, we will not give AIG a dime more without giving back the bonuses. they should have left it has that...but that doesn't save face with the voters, so we have this dog and pony show going on..

Click to expand...

Contracts can be broken, they are broken everyday. Contracts can be ammended, it is possible. Nothing is set in stone, changes can always be made.

I question the morals of people who think they need a bonus so badly that they are willing to risk their families lives. Did any of you hear the reading of the "piano wire letter" on capitol hill the other day? I certainly did.

These execs have had their families threatened with death and they still are having bonus withdraws. When you are willing to risk everyone around you and their lives, if that's not an addiction to money, what is it?

smokinmayne said:

it will be really interesting year to see what happens with obama and co.

Click to expand...

I don't blame obama, after all hes only a figurehead. same goes for bush and every other president.
it's his cabinet and congress that is out of control.
what the fuck is the vice president over seeing? besides the demise of the dollar?
here I thought Joe was a mean lion, but in reality hes a dainty mouse.