mites and fungus gnats in early flowering!!! please help!!!

I had a minor spider mite problem half way through veg,no webbing, only serious damage to leaves and a Halt in growth. I treated with organocide over a two week span and completely got rid of all noticeable damage and the plants started thriving again.I used organocide and it cleared everything up mitewise but shortly after use of organocide I started noticing fungus gnats. I let 1500 ladybugs loose to clean up any remaining spider mites and take care of the fungus gnats, and now 6 weeks has gone by I'm in early flowering and I'm starting to notice minor damage again from the spider mites on lower leaves! so I again treated with organocide and once again now have fungus gnats!! I'm pretty sure that using the organocide is somehow causing my fungus gnats! what can I do to rid myself of the mites and fungus gnats without harming my ladybugs and flowering plants?Just long enough to get through the next 6 weeks until harvest??please please help!!

sure you don't have aphids?

You lost me at "1500 ladybugs dude.."

While, indeed, ladybugs will consume active Mites and various other species of insects, much more convenient and drastically more effective remedies are available such as some either neem based or other homemade concoctions such as cayenne mixtures.

I havent had mites in ages, but Ive had them before indoors, and especially outdoors during my 4 seasons of guerilla growing. I rolled up to my outdoor plot once and it was a full blown mite carnival. They were tightrope walking in between buds, with full on established web embassies and condos. This was late in bloom, and after two heavy Azatrol treatments, they were eradicated. Same experience indoors, however I of course got to the problem well before they were too established.
My dosing of Azatrol was a foliar spray mixture 1tbsp per gallon of distilled water( you want to avoid using Tap because the Ca and Mg deposits will encrust on the leaves potentially blocking stomata) and I also called and spoke to the manufacturer regarding the use of their neem based product( Azatrol) as a soil drench for a nightmarish bout of the dreaded root aphid, and they assured me it was safe to do so. I followed the same mixture as the foliar spray, and didnt notice any ill effects on the plant, however there are some claims that these products will potentially harm the root system's microbial life. http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/1525035/effect-of-neem-oil-on-beneficial-bacteria-in-veggie-garden

I didnt find this to be the case personally, but Im not a biologist, so take it with a grain of salt.

Im DWC now and my system is squeaky clean, but based on my many years of experience in dirt, I would absolutely do a foliar and root drench of neem again if I were experiencing your present issues. Good luck.

what I'm saying is I already put 1500 live ladybugs in there and although they are not completely fixing the problem,they are still alive and feeding slowly on the mites and gnats!Just not fast enough though,so I would like to know what type of treatments I can use that will not harm the ladybugs because like I said they are working, theyre just keeping it in check but not eliminating the pests and I don't want to kill the ladybugs harm my 4 week old flowers on my plants! I would just like to give the ladybugs some assistance without harming them

You need floramite, tetrasan, avid, or Forbid to kill the mites, and some Met52 or something else to kill the aphids.
I think you have root aphids, not mites. When aphids become mature, they start flying around. I could be wrong, but that's my guess.

Louisville79 said:

I had a minor spider mite problem half way through veg,no webbing, only serious damage to leaves and a Halt in growth. I treated with organocide over a two week span and completely got rid of all noticeable damage and the plants started thriving again.I used organocide and it cleared everything up mitewise but shortly after use of organocide I started noticing fungus gnats. I let 1500 ladybugs loose to clean up any remaining spider mites and take care of the fungus gnats, and now 6 weeks has gone by I'm in early flowering and I'm starting to notice minor damage again from the spider mites on lower leaves! so I again treated with organocide and once again now have fungus gnats!! I'm pretty sure that using the organocide is somehow causing my fungus gnats! what can I do to rid myself of the mites and fungus gnats without harming my ladybugs and flowering plants?Just long enough to get through the next 6 weeks until harvest??please please help!!

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3 drops dish soap and water in a spray bottle will kill the mites on the underside of the leafs and it wont kill ladybugs. Water your soil with dish soap and water for gnat control in the soil. It wont kill all gnats in the soil but will knock them down so your ladybugs can eat the rest. This method wont rid your garden of pest completely so a good cleaning will have to be done after harvest.

blackforest said:

You need floramite, tetrasan, avid, or Forbid to kill the mites, and some Met52 or something else to kill the aphids.
I think you have root aphids, not mites. When aphids become mature, they start flying around. I could be wrong, but that's my guess.

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I have Spider mites,definitely no questions about that! I also have either fungus gnats or root aphids along with spider mites!little tiny pin size black flying insect with clear wings like a common housefly but much much smaller coming up out of the soil, I got those after using organocide for the spider mites.But I definitely have spider mites no question about that!identifying my pest isn't my issue right this second,I already identified the spider mites with every single symptom down to the little white specs (their eggs) all over my first three levels of leaves,down to using a jeweler's loupe on the underside of my leaves watching all the tiny arachnid brown spotted spider mites making their home on the underside of previously said leaves.the only symptom I have not identified yet is the webbing and that's only because I've been killing them before they can get to that stage. I treated and what I thought was removed them already 6 weeks ago,but I guess I didn't get them all, or more eggs hatched.but every time I treat with organocide 90% of the mites disappear and my plants start flourishing again only to have fungus gnats show up within 3 to 4 days after treating with that miticide (organocide ).I just really need to know what kind of Organic spray treatment I can use halfway through flowering right now that is not going to harm the ladybugs or My crop long enough for me to harvest them. I have about 4 to 6 more weeks before harvest.maybe even 8 more weeks due to the delay in growth these damn pests are causing me.

mike4c4 said:

3 drops dish soap and water in a spray bottle will kill the mites on the underside of the leafs and it wont kill ladybugs. Water your soil with dish soap and water for gnat control in the soil. It wont kill all gnats in the soil but will knock them down so your ladybugs can eat the rest. This method wont rid your garden of pest completely so a good cleaning will have to be done after harvest.

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thank you I really appreciate that sorry I was still in the middle of writing before I could see your response

mike4c4 said:

3 drops dish soap and water in a spray bottle will kill the mites on the underside of the leafs and it wont kill ladybugs. Water your soil with dish soap and water for gnat control in the soil. It wont kill all gnats in the soil but will knock them down so your ladybugs can eat the rest. This method wont rid your garden of pest completely so a good cleaning will have to be done after harvest.

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oh and does it matter what kind of dish soap does it have to be anti- bacterial because my girlfriend tends to buy the dollar store dish soap so I don't know if that carries the same pesticidal ingredients in it?

Louisville79 said:

what I'm saying is I already put 1500 live ladybugs in there and although they are not completely fixing the problem,they are still alive and feeding slowly on the mites and gnats!Just not fast enough though,so I would like to know what type of treatments I can use that will not harm the ladybugs because like I said they are working, theyre just keeping it in check but not eliminating the pests and I don't want to kill the ladybugs harm my 4 week old flowers on my plants! I would just like to give the ladybugs some assistance without harming them

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I understood exactly what you were saying. Ladybugs, although cool in theory, are a band aid to the problem, and will barely put a dent in the population. The very nature of, well, Nature, doesnt necessarily coincide with fast, immediate results.
By the way, I would be highly skeptical that dish soap "doesnt harm ladybugs." Perhaps Im wrong, however theres a bunch of links supporting this position. One of many: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/soapy-water-hurt-ladybugs-104675.html
I guess Id be interested to hear/see the biological and physiological data to support this wild claim? What is the scientific process in which a dish soap affects only the problem insects system, and yet maintains the homeostasis of the insects of your liking?
(OP, obviously im not asking you this.)
If you truly want to preserve the well being of your ladybug population, I would at least suggest some further research before pouring some Dawn into a spray bottle.

By the way, if you do have aphids, you damn well better act fast dude. Its easy to bounce back from fungus gnats. Aphids? Entirely different story.

Louisville79 said:

thank you I really appreciate that sorry I was still in the middle of writing before I could see your response

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Louisville79 said:

oh and does it matter what kind of dish soap does it have to be anti- bacterial because my girlfriend tends to buy the dollar store dish soap so I don't know if that carries the same pesticidal ingredients in it?

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I use dawn, they have it. I have organic soil so i stay away from anti-bacterial, dont want to kill the good stuff but i have never heard anything bad happening when others use it. Lots of luck and happy growing.

Dankfactory said:

I understood exactly what you were saying. Ladybugs, although cool in theory, are a band aid to the problem, and will barely put a dent in the population. The very nature of, well, Nature, doesnt necessarily coincide with fast, immediate results.
By the way, I would be highly skeptical that dish soap "doesnt harm ladybugs." Perhaps Im wrong, however theres a bunch of links supporting this position. One of many: http://homeguides.sfgate.com/soapy-water-hurt-ladybugs-104675.html
I guess Id be interested to hear/see the ? What is the scientific process in which a dish soap affects only the problem insects system, and yet maintains the homeostasis of the insects of your liking?
(OP, obviously im not asking you this.)
If you truly want to preserve the well being of your ladybug population, I would at least suggest some further research before pouring some Dawn into a spray bottle.

By the way, if you do have aphids, you damn well better act fast dude. Its easy to bounce back from fungus gnats. Aphids? Entirely different story.

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More will die from the lights and heat as ladybugs cant take the heat cannabis can. And the soap kills the mites by forming a air bubble on them and they suffocate, so unless he is spraying the ladybugs themselves he's ok.

I've had amazing success using nematodes for fungus gnats.

mike4c4 said:

More will die from the lights and heat as ladybugs cant take the heat cannabis can. And the soap kills the mites by forming a air bubble on them and they suffocate, so unless he is spraying the ladybugs themselves he's ok.

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Im sorry dude, but this post is simply absolute nonsense, and what the forums need less of is more rampant conjecture. Lets dissect your theories a little more closely here.

"More will die from the lights and heat as ladybugs cant take the heat cannabis can."

In the first place, a properly designed growroom will be at a comfortable temperature. And, pardon me if I didnt understand you correctly, but are you saying that an insect that is accustomed to thriving under intense natural sunlight, and extraordinarily hotter temperatures than what is prevalent in a growroom setting, will "die," because they "cant take the heat?"
Please explain.

"The soap kills mites by forming an air bubble on them and they suffocate so unless he is spraying the ladybugs themselves hes ok"

It is well known that dish soap's method of action as it relates to insect control is that of suffocation. The same theory applies to neem based products, although products like Azamax and Azatrol actually go a step further and prevent larvae from hatching, and inhibiting surviving insect's molting and reproductive behavior, as well as suppressing appetite.At first you stated that the dish soap wouldnt harm ladybugs, but now the method wont harm them "unless he is spraying them?" Thats a bit of a bold quest to accomplish, considering there are 1500 ladybugs in the OP's garden, the majority of which are almost assuredly lounging in the foliage.

see that's exactly my problem I have a 5x5 x7 grow tent with an air cooled hood and I covered up all and the intake and exhaust holes(not being used), besides the ones with screens and I filled the two holes where the zippers meet so I have all the ladybugs in there all over the walls,on the pots, the soil, the plants, all over my fans and air filters! last time I sanitized the room I pulled all the plants out,put them in the shower and gave them a good spraying with the shower head,then sprayed the organocide on them and left them in my shower while I disinfected the whole room. Then returned them to the room once it was clean.but that was before I had the ladybugs. and aside from ending up with fungus gnats,my room was happy and healthy for the following 6 weeks.the girls snapped back to life within the following week,during that same week I released 1500 live ladybugs,and 5 more weeks went by finishing out my veg and starting flower completely happy and healthy.it's now 6 weeks since that disinfecting and I'm in my 4th week of flowering and about 7 or 8 hundred of the ladybugs are still roaming around in there eating and mating,but again I'm starting to notice the same early warning signs on all my lower leaves that the mite population is starting to just now do damage again.I treated it about a week ago with the organocide again inside the tent this time,I didn't pull them out into the shower again this time because I didn't want to pull all the ladybugs out with them.and now once again just like last time its about a week after treatment and I now have fungus gnats again.I think the organocide is causing the fungus gnats because this is twice now they've shown up and both times directly after using organocide.ladybugs seem to like the gnats because they always go after and eliminate them first.I'm going to have to do my best to shake off all the ladybugs and pull them out one by one into the shower again and hit them with another washing with the shower head and then spray them again with the organocide hoping I don't lose all my ladybugs during this process. I want to then go and disinfect the room but I want to do so without harming the lady bugs that are in it so I'm going to do the best I can and trying not to directly spray them with the soapy water.that is my conundrum! how do i disinfect a room full of ladybugs without harming the ladybugs?the organocide works great eliminating and killing the mites but I seem to end up with fungus gnats directly after using it so therefore I would like my lady bugs to stay in there to kill the fungus gnats after using the organocide again

Dankfactory said:

Im sorry dude, but this post is simply absolute nonsense, and what the forums need less of is more rampant conjecture. Lets dissect your theories a little more closely here.

"More will die from the lights and heat as ladybugs cant take the heat cannabis can."

In the first place, a properly designed growroom will be at a comfortable temperature. And, pardon me if I didnt understand you correctly, but are you saying that an insect that is accustomed to thriving under intense natural sunlight, and extraordinarily hotter temperatures than what is prevalent in a growroom setting, will "die," because they "cant take the heat?"
Please explain.

"The soap kills mites by forming an air bubble on them and they suffocate so unless he is spraying the ladybugs themselves hes ok"

It is well known that dish soap's method of action as it relates to insect control is that of suffocation. The same theory applies to neem based products, although products like Azamax and Azatrol actually go a step further and prevent larvae from hatching, and inhibiting surviving insect's molting and reproductive behavior, as well as suppressing appetite.At first you stated that the dish soap wouldnt harm ladybugs, but now the method wont harm them "unless he is spraying them?" Thats a bit of a bold quest to accomplish, considering there are 1500 ladybugs in the OP's garden, the majority of which are almost assuredly lounging in the foliage.

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Sorry i hurt your pussy by providing a different method than what you did, thats what this is about right.
Cant wast my time on people like you.

mike4c4 said:

Sorry i hurt your pussy by providing a different method than what you did, thats what this is about right.
Cant wast my time on people like you.

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Haha. That's pretty much exactly what I expected. Zero credible data to bolster your take.
Go ahead and feel free to explain the highlighted points above.

Peace.

OP, this is why forums can be your best friend and your worst enemy at the same time. There is a surplus of supposed "gardeners" pontificating on and giving advice on topics they know nothing about. It pays to do your homework. There's lots and lots of bullshit to sift through.
Your goal is to kill all insects except for your ladybugs. Thats sort of a tall order. I would first rule out that you dont have root aphids, and then focus on eradicating the mites and gnats.

Gnatrol granuals!!! 1/2 teaspoon lite infestation, 1 teaspoon moderate infestation, 2-3 teaspoon heavy infestation of fungus gnats. Organic Wash-a-way from Hydro store rids spider mights - pricey but works!!! Good luck

i have two plants with fugnats and i see them flying around my head while watching tv, walking up the window and when i shake the pot a couple would fly out. sooo, yesterday i had an idea, i took some nylon screen and cut circles out a bit wider than the pot, cut halfway across the screen circles and slipped them over the plant stems. if there were any that wouldn't stay put i put a little potting soil on it to hold it down, gravel would be better or even stones. i have not seen one bug today and i used to see a dozen, plus a couple in the toilet in the morning. the adults only live a week so they are trapped inside and any eggs that hatch or feeding larvae will die as well locked inside the pot. the adults don't do the damage, it's the larvae and they will only be feeding for about a week and no females can get in to lay any more eggs. some do set up homes in drains so dump some boiling water down drains every few days, keep the grow area clean. i have transplanted three to bigger pots and didn't see any bugs in those so i think i may have control of things. in two weeks it will be summer and in the 80's here and the plants will go outside for the summer. try it out, i'd like to hear how it works for you. j