Mass Medical Seeds

Canoe Head

Canoe Head

Active Member
jdoorn14 said:
You missed the quotation marks.

Tossing someone a pack of seeds and letting them pick a keeper to chuck pollen with/onto isn’t really a collaboration. Gromer didn’t pass MMS a cut or pollen from one of his studs to use in a ”collaboration“...so it was more like permission to use whatever MMS could find in a pack of seeds in future pollen chucks.
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I'm confused. Not trying to be snarky or anything but is it actually a thing that breeders expect people to get their permission before someone phenohunts a pack or two of their gear with the intention of chucking some pollen?

This industry is weird sometimes.
 
idlewilder

idlewilder

Well-Known Member
Canoe Head said:
I'm confused. Not trying to be snarky or anything but is it actually a thing that breeders expect people to get their permission before someone phenohunts a pack or two of their gear with the intention of chucking some pollen?

This industry is weird sometimes.
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It’s considered proper etiquette to get a blessing to use someone else’s work, especially if you’re planning on selling the seeds. It’s also polite.
 
Coalcat

Coalcat

Well-Known Member
Canoe Head said:
I'm confused. Not trying to be snarky or anything but is it actually a thing that breeders expect people to get their permission before someone phenohunts a pack or two of their gear with the intention of chucking some pollen?

This industry is weird sometimes.
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It’s polite thing to do (expecially when money is involved) but people don’t do it all the time. I believe when you buy seeds they are yours to do what you want. However calling it a collaboration implies that the parties worked together on a product. Not that one person just grew seeds and made a selection to cross. I mean I can do that...I wouldn’t cross my plant to a bodhi plant I grew and call it a Bodhi collab.
 
Canoe Head

Canoe Head

Active Member
Coalcat said:
It’s polite thing to do (expecially when money is involved) but people don’t do it all the time. I believe when you buy seeds they are yours to do what you want. However calling it a collaboration implies that the parties worked together on a product. Not that one person just grew seeds and made a selection to cross. I mean I can do that...I wouldn’t cross my plant to a bodhi plant I grew and call it a Bodhi collab.
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Sorry, I'm relatively new to the cannabis scene and don't really know the history of what is going on between MMS and other people. But I know in regards to plant patent law, a plant has to be unable to propagate itself sexually to be able to be patented... like a new type of seedless grape or something. If a variety can reproduce itself naturally, it isn't patentable, at least that's my understanding.

But yeah I can see calling a pollination a collaboration as being problematic for sure. I guess there is a hell of a lot more money in making cannabis seeds than tomato seeds for example, so people want to protect their livelihoods and reputations. I forget that. Like I say I'm new to the scene, just trying to understand why cannabis growers are so protective of their genetics. I have a friend who has been working on a purple early tumbler tomato variety for years, and I know she would be ecstatic if someone used her seeds to make another variety. Prohibition has made cannabis seeds and certain cannabis varieties incredibly valuable compared to other types of crops... Its kind of interesting.
 
Coalcat

Coalcat

Well-Known Member
Canoe Head said:
Sorry, I'm relatively new to the cannabis scene and don't really know the history of what is going on between MMS and other people. But I know in regards to plant patent law, a plant has to be unable to propagate itself sexually to be able to be patented... like a new type of seedless grape or something. If a variety can reproduce itself naturally, it isn't patentable, at least that's my understanding.

But yeah I can see calling a pollination a collaboration as being problematic for sure. I guess there is a hell of a lot more money in making cannabis seeds than tomato seeds for example, so people want to protect their livelihoods and reputations. I forget that. Like I say I'm new to the scene, just trying to understand why cannabis growers are so protective of their genetics. I have a friend who has been working on a purple early tumbler tomato variety for years, and I know she would be ecstatic if someone used her seeds to make another variety. Prohibition has made cannabis seeds and certain cannabis varieties incredibly valuable compared to other types of crops... Its kind of interesting.
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It’s very interesting. I see the bottom falling out of the seed market a few years after fed legalization. I also see the rise of “Monsanto”seeds.
 
YardG

YardG

Well-Known Member
Canoe Head said:
Sorry, I'm relatively new to the cannabis scene and don't really know the history of what is going on between MMS and other people. But I know in regards to plant patent law, a plant has to be unable to propagate itself sexually to be able to be patented... like a new type of seedless grape or something. If a variety can reproduce itself naturally, it isn't patentable, at least that's my understanding.

But yeah I can see calling a pollination a collaboration as being problematic for sure. I guess there is a hell of a lot more money in making cannabis seeds than tomato seeds for example, so people want to protect their livelihoods and reputations. I forget that. Like I say I'm new to the scene, just trying to understand why cannabis growers are so protective of their genetics. I have a friend who has been working on a purple early tumbler tomato variety for years, and I know she would be ecstatic if someone used her seeds to make another variety. Prohibition has made cannabis seeds and certain cannabis varieties incredibly valuable compared to other types of crops... Its kind of interesting.
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We're going a little off topic (though it's an interesting side topic), or two topics even... but still:

- I wouldn't take away that breeders are unhappy about their seedlines being used in other people's breeding/protective. For sure there are some people who are proprietary about it, but most, I think, publicly profess to it being totally okay. Once you buy them they're your genetics. It's good form to let the person know if you're going to be selling them or publicly distributing them or whatnot, but it's just being polite. Calling something a collab obviously implies both parties were active participants, as people have said a cut would have made both parties exact level of involvement clearer. That said I don't think it's totally uncommon in "the seed industry" for people to use collab to mean what's apparently (?) meant here? (I don't actually follow this stuff, I just grow things or don't grow things).

- Isn't there some sort of short term period during which companies can lay claim to particular plant varietals? I think it happens in flowers/etc, all the time, Burpee or whatever gets a... say 20 year... license to exclusively sell the seeds of some distinct varietal they've created, after which anyone can? There's a lot of discussion of this in podcasts, don't know anything more about it.
 
Canoe Head

Canoe Head

Active Member
YardG said:
We're going a little off topic (though it's an interesting side topic), or two topics even... but still:

- I wouldn't take away that breeders are unhappy about their seedlines being used in other people's breeding/protective. For sure there are some people who are proprietary about it, but most, I think, publicly profess to it being totally okay. Once you buy them they're your genetics. It's good form to let the person know if you're going to be selling them or publicly distributing them or whatnot, but it's just being polite. Calling something a collab obviously implies both parties were active participants, as people have said a cut would have made both parties exact level of involvement clearer. That said I don't think it's totally uncommon in "the seed industry" for people to use collab to mean what's apparently (?) meant here? (I don't actually follow this stuff, I just grow things or don't grow things).

- Isn't there some sort of short term period during which companies can lay claim to particular plant varietals? I think it happens in flowers/etc, all the time, Burpee or whatever gets a... say 20 year... license to exclusively sell the seeds of some distinct varietal they've created, after which anyone can? There's a lot of discussion of this in podcasts, don't know anything more about it.
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Sorry for derailing the thread...

I ended up getting curious about plant patents and licensing. Turns out you are right - there is a process to get Plant Breeders Rights (PBR) in Canada at least. Which is different than a patent which I think would only apply to cuttings. Two things I see as problematic for cannabis breeders that are protective of the genetics they are in possession of:

To be eligible a variety has to be stable in subsequent generations regarding the defining characteristics of the variety. Which I see a lot of breeders having problems with.

It also mentions that the rights granted do not apply to acts related to plant breeding.

Guide To Plant Breeders' Rights In Canada

Maybe there is another legal mechanism they are talking about in these podcasts? Its gonna be interesting where the seed industry ends up. There are still many small and medium sized local breeders of garden seeds around... but they sure as hell cant charge 200$ per 10 seeds for a unique squash or tomato variety and they aren't becoming millionaires from it. (At least I don't think so, maybe the squash and tomato seed market is bursting with money? Lol)
 
Bodyne

Bodyne

Well-Known Member
Ask stoned ninja about it lol. What did you expect him to do, admit to it? Lol There is a story bout it. Think you have to ask headie bout it according to ninja
 
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