Lucas Formula Recipe from Scratch "Really"

fatman7574 said:

It wil all come down to the matter of your pH. Dyna-gro uses an extremely high amount of ammonium nitrogen in its formulations Baout 32% or more of its total nitrogen. The general recomendtation if for less than 15% as ammonium nitrogen. Most mj specific formultions re designed for recirculation resrvoirs so are down around 3% to 6%. With out door grows the higher percentage seems to matter little as typicaly dolomite lime is added to the soil. In indoor grows it tends to lower the pH enough that most of the calcium , magnesium and iron become unavailable to the plants due their be used up as buffers. This usually always makes it necessary to add Botainicare CalMag Plus during budding.

Click to expand...

csharper said:

Hi fatman, a few questions to further the discussion:

0.) You say to change the res every week, but it stands to reason that there is a holy grail nutrient ratio:reservoir sizelant volume which could alleviate this for 90ish days. Doesn't and can't exist. As in the plants eat pretty much exactly what you put in... Not really that simple. Lots of buffering going on due to constant pH changes, continula changes in water dissolved CO2 and temperatures. Yet alone plants do not reallt take up slats and metals in the ratios they use them, store them or incorporate them into their tissues. Or do you think it is impossible to have a "stable" and "perfect feed ratio" solution? Impossible pretty much covers it. My self I only grow drain to waste, but unless you mix your own nutrients or buy preweighedsak lts that couldget exopnsive especially if ignorantly buying and using AN. A recirculatory reservoir is the bottom end production practice of commercial green house operators with a 50% to 100% mark up, it is sad it is the most commonly used practice by growers of that can have marks up of 5000% or more. Sad really.

1.) Is it 3:1:2 n2o5:k20 or 3:1:2 npk? Isn't this a ratio for soil? Actually that ratio is pretty much more of a budding ratio than a veg but I find very little need for nuch difference between veg and bloom ecxcept a higher phosphorus and calcium in veg and a higher nitrogen Potasisum and iron in bloom. It is the ration of a populra outdoor soil nutrient from Dyna-Gro. Unlessyou are using an automatic pH controller 24/7 I would not use any Dtna-Gro "hydroponic" nutrients for indoor mj grows.

2.) I ask because your formulas are ~3:1:3 npk - about which:
a.) 1P really needed for hydro? More actually if growing by recirculating reservoir especially if you are growing with no or neraly no ammomium nitrogen. Is this much P really used by cannabis? NO. Those formulations are for recirculating reservirs. The palnts seldom need that level of phosphorus but phosphorus is aused as a buffer in recirculatory resvervoirs sio there is a higher need that just the plant uptake need. It is not even possible to put in all the phosphorus that will be needed with a recirculating resrvoir that is not changed out. The phosphorus is toxic at such high levels.
b.) 2->3K why? Because I use dilute(low EC) formulations and low levels of most trace nutrients. I do not suggest anyone use nutrients at the full strength IE diluted 100 to 1, but weaker. I catually use mine very, very weak. 350 to 650 ppm for drain to waste.

Here is an example of the N,P,K,Ca,M,S ratios of a Indica Bud tissue sample. Nutrient formulas are based upon these type ratios with an increase in the buffers when formulating nutrients for recirculation resrvoirs.
N=3.75, P=0.8, K=4.2, Ca=1.5, Mg=0.35, S=0.3. So lets consider N as . This means the ratios are N3/30=1, P(0.8/3)=0.27, K4.2/3)=1.4 Therefore 1:0.27:1.4

c.) Or are these numbers because of the effects on the solution, not for the plant's consumption? Bingo!!!!!

3.) Your opinion of "msu magic" orchid pure water mix (greencare, knockoffs) for recirculating hydro? What am I overlooking and why does nobody use this for cannabis? The main problem is as with Dyna-Gro. Way to much ammonium nitrogen proportionally. Years of pot growing indoors has repeatedly show that the ammonium nitrogen hould only comprise 15% or lessof the total nitroge, They typicallly use 30% to 100% ammonium nitrogen. Ammonium cause low pH, works best at low temps and low lighting. Many even use urea.

At about your N level: N2.6/2.6)=1, P0.26/2.6)= 0.10, K2.5/2.6)= 0.96 IE 1:0.10:0.96

Nitrogen N Total 261.6
Phosphorus P 25.9
Potassium K 246.7
Magnesium Mg 39.6
Sulfur S 1.8
Calcium Ca 158.5
Iron Fe 3.56671
Boron B 0.39630
Manganese Mn 1.78336
Zinc Zn 0.79260
Molybdenum Mo 0.39630
Copper Cu 0.79260

Components: boric acid, calcium nitrate, copper sulfate, iron EDTA, magnesium nitrate, manganese sulfate, potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate, sodium molybdate, zinc sulfate.

Nitrogen (Nitrate 12.5%)
(Ammoniacal 0.7%) 13.00%
Phosphorus (as P2O5) 3.00%
Potassium (as K2O) 15.00%
Calcium 8.00%
Magnesium 2.00%
Iron 0.18%
Manganese 0.09%
Sulfur 0.09%
Zinc 0.04%
Copper 0.04%
Boron 0.02%
Molybdenum 0.02%

Ratios N: (25.5/25.5)=1. P: (3/25.5)=0.12, K=(15/25.5)= 0.59 IE 1:0.12:0.59

http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/PDF/IPAFinal.pdf from http://www.staugorchidsociety.org/culturewater.htm
(or is this "just for orchids")

4.) Relating to above formula, is there anything to be said for moderation in the micros, especially in a recirculating reservoir where this forumula could potentially eliminate the possibility of buildups? The formula would definitely have to be diluted over 200 or 300 to 1 (one) or more so the trace nutrients will be no higher than ith most mj specific nutrient formulas. Other than the fact that pH flucuations due to the high levels of ammmight be a problem it is a fine formulation.

5.) GH Maxigro, this stuff is your formula/ratio for all intents and purposes, right? What is wrong with this stuff other than price and dyes and 15% of N as ammonium? No I use my own formulations based upon tissue samples and testing discharged nutrient water. I post other formulations because people want to see them and should see them to help them to see that it is not rocket science.

At Your N level:
Nitrogen N Total 264.2
Phosphorus P 57.6
Potassium K 307.0
Magnesium Mg 52.8
Sulfur S 79.3
Calcium Ca 158.5
Iron Fe 3.17041
Boron B 0.00000
Manganese Mn 1.321

http://generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/product_labels/maxigro_1.5lb.pdf

6.) quoting you: "the actual recommended calcium to nitrogen ratio for MJ is 0.8-1", source please? Suntec in New Zealand. They are top of the field (private) in the world and have been for quite some time.

7.) And yet, many or all of your formulas have more Ca than N, almost ratio in reverse? Beacuse they are formulations for recirculating reservoirs where the first mineral tied up in buffer compounds is calcium. And you complained of too much sulfur.. Where do I do that. Sulfur can be used at very low rates but it is OK to use at rates of up to twice the ratio of Phosphorus. So why not add magnesium nitrate (expensive in the U.S.) and lower calcium nitrate and epsom (they are both cheap and very soluble) ? Curious, help me learn.

Click to expand...

Black Thumb said:

Got another question do you reccomend adding supplements or hormones,additives,stimulants,enzymes or someting to the final batch or seperately for greater results ?

If so are there any specifically you might reccomend ?

Click to expand...