Lower yellowing leaves

K

Kvdavesexyshad

Member
I'm in a similar boat as you, I don't have close up photos but I can take one later. Autoflowers, around day 50 and the problem looks very similar to yours.

I'm thinking mine is a magnesium deficiency and I fed my plant 1tbps epsom salt per gallon yesterday. I'll be monitoring my plants and your progress as well.
 
H

Hazey_Dazey

Member
Kvdavesexyshad said:
I'm in a similar boat as you, I don't have close up photos but I can take one later. Autoflowers, around day 50 and the problem looks very similar to yours.

I'm thinking mine is a magnesium deficiency and I fed my plant 1tbps epsom salt per gallon yesterday. I'll be monitoring my plants and your progress as well.
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Yeah I've seen this problem occur in quite a few autoflower grows around this time, I'm relatively confident it's to do with the stretching - someone in this thread also mentioned they use a lot of energy in this stage.

I'm also confident that my issue is an Mg deficiency, but it was compounded by an N deficiency to begin with; I've definitely improved the N issue by introducing half strength feeds, which is now why I can see with more clarity the chlorosis in between veins (Mg def). We'll see how we get on, make sure to keep us updated on your issue and good luck!
 
K

Kvdavesexyshad

Member
Hazey_Dazey said:
Yeah I've seen this problem occur in quite a few autoflower grows around this time, I'm relatively confident it's to do with the stretching - someone in this thread also mentioned they use a lot of energy in this stage.

I'm also confident that my issue is an Mg deficiency, but it was compounded by an N deficiency to begin with; I've definitely improved the N issue by introducing half strength feeds, which is now why I can see with more clarity the chlorosis in between veins (Mg def). We'll see how we get on, make sure to keep us updated on your issue and good luck!
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Take a look at my plant. This really looks like all the photos I see of magnesium deficiency from my research.

It's interesting that you mention N deficiency also, because I'm seeing this deficiency mostly on the one that I LST trained the most and seemed to stretch the most during preflower stretch. Perhaps this one sorely needed N from all the stretching?

I hesitated to add more N though because I was noticing burn on the tips of the leaves.

Anyways, this is quite a learning experience and I hope to become more knowledgeable with each grow.
 

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myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Once your pots become root bound and you've been feeding bottle nutes for a bit you can start feeding drain to waste.Elevate your pot and feed 500 ppm to a good runoff,should be 75% dry at about 48 hrs.Feed again to same runoff,repeat.
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Kvdavesexyshad said:
Take a look at my plant. This really looks like all the photos I see of magnesium deficiency from my research.

It's interesting that you mention N deficiency also, because I'm seeing this deficiency mostly on the one that I LST trained the most and seemed to stretch the most during preflower stretch. Perhaps this one sorely needed N from all the stretching?

I hesitated to add more N though because I was noticing burn on the tips of the leaves.

Anyways, this is quite a learning experience and I hope to become more knowledgeable with each grow.
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Yours looks like Mg,have you tried epsom salt?Foiler or just dilute in water.
 
L

Leasa3288

Member
Hazey_Dazey said:
Hi guys,

Long time lurker, first time poster! This is my first grow and everything I know has been pulled from this site (with a couple of other sources), so thank you for all the help so far!

First of all, here are some key details:

Strain: AUTOFLOWER - FastBuds - Cream Cookies
Age: 43 days since sprout (week 3 of flower)
Growing Medium: BioBizz Light Mix, with 30% added perlite (drainage is excellent).
Lights: MarsHydro TS1000 at between 14" and 20" (adjust every so often as she is growing a lot vertically atm, but aim for this range). The light is on 75% power.

PH going in is 6.5, PH coming out is 6.4.
PPM going in is 500, PPM coming out is 550 - Not using synthetics though, so this could be irrelevant.

In terms of nutrients, here's the deal: I only started feeding her after I noticed the yellowing. She has shown no signs of wanting any until this point (believe it or not). She has had three feedings this week with the below doseage. No sign of it being too much, but the issue has not resolved. She's in an 8L pot, so she gets 1 litre of water each feeding.

BioBizz Grow: 1.5ml per litre (currently feeding at half strength doseage).
BioBizz Bloom: 1ml per litre (currently feeding at half strength doseage).
BioBizz Alg-A-Mic: 1ml per litre (no NPK)
BioBizz CalMag: 0.2ml per litre <---- I think this might need upping to fix my issue.


I'm at a bit of a loss with this one. The issue started around 7 days ago, with some slight yellowing of the very bottom leaves. Here's the progression:

View attachment 4923083

View attachment 4923084

View attachment 4923085

View attachment 4923087

I've had to remove the above leaves as they were 100% yellow. The issue has now moved onto the set above, and here's how she looks today.

View attachment 4923091

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View attachment 4923093

She's drooping because the lights just came on, but as you can see, all of the other growth looks tip top:

View attachment 4923094

My gut is telling me it's a mag deficiency.

Any help for this nooby would be greatly appreciated! Cheers guys!
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Looks like an iron deficiency.
 
L

Leasa3288

Member
Hazey_Dazey said:
The issue is that if I rip them off, it'll progress further up the plant to the next ones - she's 'stealing' nutrients from the lower leaves first. If I was nearing the end of flower I'd be leaving it for sure, as I know it's natural at that point, but 3 weeks into flower I think it's best to fix it.

I don't think it's an N deficiency because she doesn't need much N at this stage, and given the last three feedings with PH and PPM in check with no improvement, I'm guessing it's not a P or a K deficiency either.

I love learning about these plants as much as I do growing them, so would be good to understand why it's happening, even if the course of action was to rip them clean off.
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I lay the food to them the first 3 weeks in. Level out, then cut back. Make sure your CalMag has iron in it. I've had this happen. I upped the CalMag+iron by 3ml. So I was giving 7ml of CalMag+iron. Sounds like a lot, but that's what my ladies needed.
 
Millo

Millo

Well-Known Member
@Hazey_Dazey
I have had the same issues, with the same medium and nutes, with autoflowers.
I was doing the same as you, half dosage etc. Same leaves, thought was Mag def, not N.
Tried CalMag tried Epsom Salts. Nothing.

I am now growing a photo, and decided to follow BioBizz's instructions. She's 6 weeks in flower and doing great! Maybe it really was N def, cus on the chart it says to give as much Grow as Bloom so...

This is my 2 cents:

Follow BioBizz official nutes chart for LightMix.
Water with 10% runoff ( as per BioBizz suggestion on their website ).
Add 1 teaspoon/liter of epsom salts ( magnesium sulfate ) to your watering once per week.

I really hope this helps, since I will go back growing autos when this photo finishes. I have very nice auto genetics and it would be a shame to make my plants suffer...

Keep us updated, best of luck brother :peace: :leaf:
 
K

Kvdavesexyshad

Member
myke said:
Yours looks like Mg,have you tried epsom salt?Foiler or just dilute in water.
Click to expand...
Yup, fed with 1 tbsp epsom salt per gallon of water a couple of days ago. My understanding is these leaves are not going to recover but I should see deficiency stop. Any idea how long it takes to see progress? I think I read somewhere Mg deficiency exists for 4-6 weeks before becoming apparent?

Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread but I think this relates.
 
H

Hazey_Dazey

Member
Millo said:
@Hazey_Dazey
I have had the same issues, with the same medium and nutes, with autoflowers.
I was doing the same as you, half dosage etc. Same leaves, thought was Mag def, not N.
Tried CalMag tried Epsom Salts. Nothing.

I am now growing a photo, and decided to follow BioBizz's instructions. She's 6 weeks in flower and doing great! Maybe it really was N def, cus on the chart it says to give as much Grow as Bloom so...

This is my 2 cents:

Follow BioBizz official nutes chart for LightMix.
Water with 10% runoff ( as per BioBizz suggestion on their website ).
Add 1 teaspoon/liter of epsom salts ( magnesium sulfate ) to your watering once per week.

I really hope this helps, since I will go back growing autos when this photo finishes. I have very nice auto genetics and it would be a shame to make my plants suffer...

Keep us updated, best of luck brother :peace: :leaf:
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Yeah I think my issue was N and Mg, and I am slowly getting on top of the N, which is why the chlorosis is more evident between veins now - hopefully the increase in CalMag will help here (gone from .2ml per litre, to 1ml). I have extremely soft water (50ppm), so it's very plausible that there just isn't enough in there, and it's finally caught up with the plant.

I've ordered some epsom salts, but hoping the CalMag increase will halt the issue.

Will be sure to keep you all updated - nothing worse than coming across a thread with a similar issue with no conclusion!
 
Millo

Millo

Well-Known Member
Hazey_Dazey said:
Yeah I think my issue was N and Mg, and I am slowly getting on top of the N, which is why the chlorosis is more evident between veins now - hopefully the increase in CalMag will help here (gone from .2ml per litre, to 1ml). I have extremely soft water (50ppm), so it's very plausible that there just isn't enough in there, and it's finally caught up with the plant.

I've ordered some epsom salts, but hoping the CalMag increase will halt the issue.

Will be sure to keep you all updated - nothing worse than coming across a thread with a similar issue with no conclusion!
Click to expand...
Yet there are so many threads like this one without conclusion :(
 
H

Hazey_Dazey

Member
Ok, so an update as promised, which will hopefully assist anyone further down the line with similar issues. I've not posted in a while as I wanted to be as sure as possible that the issue was fixed. I have taken pictures over the last 10 days or so of affected areas and compared day to day, and can now confidently say that the issue has stopped.

It's worth noting that it's quite difficult for me to notice changes in my plant instantly, as I am not using synthetic nutrients. This means that it's taken some time to really see if the issue has fixed, as the nutrients are not instantly available for the roots to uptake.. Here is how this has played out:

I first started giving her half strength feeds; she had two of these (1.5ml grow and 1ml bloom nutes (Bio Bizz)), and the issue didn't seem to stop at all. Due to this, I upped the strength to full, and she has now had 3 full strength feedings (3ml grow and bloom nutes), and the issue has well and truly stopped. It's worth noting that she's been given 0.5ml CalMag per litre with every feed after the first feeding on the day of the first post; the first day she got 1ml.

I'm heavily leaning towards an N and K deficiency now, and upping the nutrients has put her back straight. She's packing on some good growth over the last 7 days or so, and as you can see, it's still only the lower leaves that are affected. Before and after pic:

7.jpg 6.jpg
 
Millo

Millo

Well-Known Member
Hazey_Dazey said:
Ok, so an update as promised, which will hopefully assist anyone further down the line with similar issues. I've not posted in a while as I wanted to be as sure as possible that the issue was fixed. I have taken pictures over the last 10 days or so of affected areas and compared day to day, and can now confidently say that the issue has stopped.

It's worth noting that it's quite difficult for me to notice changes in my plant instantly, as I am not using synthetic nutrients. This means that it's taken some time to really see if the issue has fixed, as the nutrients are not instantly available for the roots to uptake.. Here is how this has played out:

I first started giving her half strength feeds; she had two of these (1.5ml grow and 1ml bloom nutes (Bio Bizz)), and the issue didn't seem to stop at all. Due to this, I upped the strength to full, and she has now had 3 full strength feedings (3ml grow and bloom nutes), and the issue has well and truly stopped. It's worth noting that she's been given 0.5ml CalMag per litre with every feed after the first feeding on the day of the first post; the first day she got 1ml.

I'm heavily leaning towards an N and K deficiency now, and upping the nutrients has put her back straight. She's packing on some good growth over the last 7 days or so, and as you can see, it's still only the lower leaves that are affected. Before and after pic:

View attachment 4928641 View attachment 4928640
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Very nice bro, I'm happy you fixed her
And thanks for the update, will come in handy :bigjoint:
 
K

Kvdavesexyshad

Member
Hey man, glad to see you've resolved your issue. Question for you though: could you explain in a bit more detail as to how you arrived to the conclusion that it was N and K deficiency? I'm asking because I am experiencing similar symptoms and I was under the impression I have a ph and/or magnesium issues.

I have since ordered a TDS/EC pen to measure input/output to get a clearer picture of what's going on with my plants but of course this pen won't tell me what ions are specifically present in the solution, just the saturation of it.
 
H

Hazey_Dazey

Member
Kvdavesexyshad said:
Hey man, glad to see you've resolved your issue. Question for you though: could you explain in a bit more detail as to how you arrived to the conclusion that it was N and K deficiency? I'm asking because I am experiencing similar symptoms and I was under the impression I have a ph and/or magnesium issues.

I have since ordered a TDS/EC pen to measure input/output to get a clearer picture of what's going on with my plants but of course this pen won't tell me what ions are specifically present in the solution, just the saturation of it.
Click to expand...
Sure thing. So, I have been phing my water since I first saw the issue (6.5) and checked the runoff each time, which fluctuated between 6 and 6.4, so I knew the nutrients were accessible, or at least they should be if there was no build up in the soil; this was my next step.

Now, too much of one nutrient can lock out others, so, even though I am running organic nutes, I did check my PPM going in, and PPM coming out; it was very similar, which is good. If the reading coming out is much higher, water with plain PH water until it comes back down. However, I am using organic nutrients so this is less relevant for me - this is a very important step if you're using synthetic nutes.

So, I came to the conclusion that I did not have lockout, and that my PH was in check, which meant, in my experience, that it could only be underfeeding. The issue was which nutrient. In my mind, there was no way that this was natural fade, and that has proven to be true, despite comments from some users earlier on.

I did originally think that it was an Mg issue, but as the issue progressed, the leaves displayed more symptoms of N and K deficiency mixed together (some completely yellow lower leaves, and some with burnt edges/tips). The intervein chlorosis didn't resemble Mg deficiency on some leaves when I look back on it (not enough green veins, and too much yellow); others it did look more prominent though (second in from bottom left in the image below). Hopefully you can see what I mean here with some of the ones I cleaned up. I don't think lack of Mg was the worst of it, and the increased CalMag doses seemed to iron it out (if that was the issue).

5.jpg

I'm not an expert, but I have experience growing several crops other than weed, and this is just my best guess based on my experience :)
 
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K

Kvdavesexyshad

Member
Hazey_Dazey said:
Sure thing. So, I have been phing my water since I first saw the issue (6.5) and checked the runoff each time, which fluctuated between 6 and 6.4, so I knew the nutrients were accessible, or at least they should be if there was no build up in the soil; this was my next step.

Now, too much of one nutrient can lock out others, so, even though I am running organic nutes, I did check my PPM going in, and PPM coming out; it was very similar, which is good. If the reading coming out is much higher, water with plain PH water until it comes back down. However, I am using organic nutrients so this is less relevant for me - this is a very important step if you're using synthetic nutes.

So, I came to the conclusion that I did not have lockout, and that my PH was in check, which meant, in my experience, that it could only be underfeeding. The issue was which nutrient. In my mind, there was no way that this was natural fade, and that has proven to be true, despite comments from some users earlier on.

I did originally think that it was an Mg issue, but as the issue progressed, the leaves displayed more symptoms of N and K deficiency mixed together (some completely yellow lower leaves, and some with burnt edges/tips). The intervein chlorosis didn't resemble Mg deficiency on some leaves when I look back on it (not enough green veins, and too much yellow); others it did look more prominent though (second in from bottom left in the image below). Hopefully you can see what I mean here with some of the ones I cleaned up. I don't think lack of Mg was the worst of it, and the increased CalMag doses seemed to iron it out (if that was the issue).

View attachment 4928792

I'm not an expert, but I have experience growing several crops other than weed, and this is just my best guess based on my experience :)
Click to expand...
Wouldn't you want lower ppm coming out? Runoff ppm should be lower vs input ppm to signify the roots are taking in nutrients? I could be misunderstanding this but I was of the impression the roots eat so less should be running off.
 
JustBlazin

JustBlazin

Well-Known Member
Looks like you were just under feeding it, so you Had N,K, MG def.
You definitely need lots of N for the stretch at the start of flower before I went organic I would just feed veg nutes for first 2 weeks of flower.
One of the worst bro science myths "bro you don't need no N in flower"
 
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H

Hazey_Dazey

Member
Kvdavesexyshad said:
Wouldn't you want lower ppm coming out? Runoff ppm should be lower vs input ppm to signify the roots are taking in nutrients? I could be misunderstanding this but I was of the impression the roots eat so less should be running off.
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You are correct, I was writing based on my organic nutes :) I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a huge positive difference, which for me, was good enough.
 
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