LOW wattage CFL's VS HIGH wattage CFL's

SmokesLikeBob said:

you can have a shit load of light, but If you don't know how to utilize them to their full potential, then not even quantity matters...

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This I honestly believe, is one of the MOST important things! Too many people just get lights and then start asking, what nutes, how often to feed, how often to water, this, that, ect, ect... Without even giving any specs about their grow room. The growing environment is one of the most important things for a healthy plant. I try to bring the outside, into my closet! No one can grow a plant better than mother nature can! IMHO!

HookdOnChronics said:

This I honestly believe, is one of the MOST important things! Too many people just get lights and then start asking, what nutes, how often to feed, how often to water, this, that, ect, ect... Without even giving any specs about their grow room. The growing environment is one of the most important things for a healthy plant. I try to bring the outside, into my closet! No one can grow a plant better than mother nature can! IMHO!

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True that man, but even mother nature can do you wrong you know...like nasty ass bugs and wind burn and shit like that, but I wouldn't mind outdoor growing along with indoor....

Dude You are so wrong!The 5u bulbs 125watt and 250watt put out way more lumens.Lumens do not compound.The small cfls give out 1700 lumens and thats all your gonna get I dont care if you puy 50 in there!Its still not the same as my 125watt 5u bulb kicking 8500 lumens.Lumens do not add up if I put 2 of my 125's in my tank I wont have 16,000 lumens.Ill have 8500 hundred lumens 2 times thats all.Buy the 125 5u feliz lights.They are about 40 bucks but SMOKE the little cfls.WAY MORE LUMENS MEANS WAY MORE BUD AND THESE LIGHTS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sticky23 said:

Alright guys so I made this a while ago when a buddie of mine started asking me "Why not use the big, 150W CFL's instead of all these smaller ones" So I did some research! lol, Here's what I found out, just tryin to spread the love to any other CFLers out there!

Hookd’s info on CFL’s.

Just a little FYI here. But CFL's start to loose their lumen per watt output after about the 30W cfl's. So if it's possible for you, I'd go with an abundance of smaller CFL's, (mathamatically the 26W bulbs are the most efficient lumen/watt wise) rather than 1 HUGE CFL. Because the ONE MASSIVE CFL doesn't put out as many lumens as if you we're to use the same amount of watts, just with more, smaller light's. Does what I'm saying make sense?



Here, this may be better:

I looked at the 150W CFL's, and the one that puts out the MOST lumest/watt that I could find is the "150 Watt CFL Light Bulb - 650 W Equal – Soft White 2700K - 9,200 lumens"
So the best lumen/watt for a large, 150W CFL that I found was 9,200lumens/150watts which calculates to about 61.333 lumens per individual watt.

Now I looked at the kind of light's I use which are the "26 Watt CFL Light Bulb - 105 W Equal - Soft White 2700K - 1800 lumens"
So the best lumen/watt for the smaller, 26W CFL that I found was 1800lumens/26watts which calculates to about 69.231 lumens per individual watt.




Ok so let me break this down for you, straight G style! Hahaha:


A single, 150W CFL, puts out 9200 lumens total. 61.333 lumens per watt.
Now let's see here, 150W/26W=5.796. So it would take about 5.796 of these 26w cfl's to have the same amount of watts being used as the 150w. So let's round that down (just to make a point) to 5 of the 26watt CFL's, that would be a total of 130watts, and you would be putting out 9000 lumens. So for 20 less watts, you would have only 200 less lumens. (Don't forget I rounded down to 5 instead of 5.796 just to make my point.)
If you were to round up instead of down, from 5.796 to 6 which is what logic would tell us to do. That would give you 156watts (Only 6 watts more than the 150w CFL) and 10800 lumens (which is 1600 MORE lumens {almost an entire 26W CFL worth} that the 150W CFL)

So 1600 MORE lumens for only 6 more watts.

Again, just sharing some info. This is what I do instead of using the HUGE CFL's. It's also a LOT cheaper to replace these smaller bulbs for whenever the time comes. Because it's said that CFL's start to lose intensity after about 3 grows. Just some food for thought.

Don't FUCK with me and my CFL's! lol
Hope this helps with your decision. And if not, at least I was able to spread the knowledge. PEACE

-Hookd​

Dude You are so wrong!The 5u bulbs 125watt and 250watt put out way more lumens.Lumens do not compound.The small cfls give out 1700 lumens and thats all your gonna get I dont care if you puy 50 in there!Its still not the same as my 125watt 5u bulb kicking 8500 lumens.Lumens do not add up if I put 2 of my 125's in my tank I wont have 16,000 lumens.Ill have 8500 hundred lumens 2 times thats all.Buy the 125 5u feliz lights.They are about 40 bucks but SMOKE the little cfls.WAY MORE LUMENS MEANS WAY MORE BUD AND THESE LIGHTS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Again with this shit!? Didn't we eliminate that theory a few pages back???

sticky23 said:

Alright guys so I made this a while ago when a buddie of mine started asking me "Why not use the big, 150W CFL's instead of all these smaller ones" So I did some research! lol, Here's what I found out, just tryin to spread the love to any other CFLers out there!

Hookd’s info on CFL’s.

Just a little FYI here. But CFL's start to loose their lumen per watt output after about the 30W cfl's. So if it's possible for you, I'd go with an abundance of smaller CFL's, (mathamatically the 26W bulbs are the most efficient lumen/watt wise) rather than 1 HUGE CFL. Because the ONE MASSIVE CFL doesn't put out as many lumens as if you we're to use the same amount of watts, just with more, smaller light's. Does what I'm saying make sense?



Here, this may be better:

I looked at the 150W CFL's, and the one that puts out the MOST lumest/watt that I could find is the "150 Watt CFL Light Bulb - 650 W Equal – Soft White 2700K - 9,200 lumens"
So the best lumen/watt for a large, 150W CFL that I found was 9,200lumens/150watts which calculates to about 61.333 lumens per individual watt.

Now I looked at the kind of light's I use which are the "26 Watt CFL Light Bulb - 105 W Equal - Soft White 2700K - 1800 lumens"
So the best lumen/watt for the smaller, 26W CFL that I found was 1800lumens/26watts which calculates to about 69.231 lumens per individual watt.




Ok so let me break this down for you, straight G style! Hahaha:


A single, 150W CFL, puts out 9200 lumens total. 61.333 lumens per watt.
Now let's see here, 150W/26W=5.796. So it would take about 5.796 of these 26w cfl's to have the same amount of watts being used as the 150w. So let's round that down (just to make a point) to 5 of the 26watt CFL's, that would be a total of 130watts, and you would be putting out 9000 lumens. So for 20 less watts, you would have only 200 less lumens. (Don't forget I rounded down to 5 instead of 5.796 just to make my point.)
If you were to round up instead of down, from 5.796 to 6 which is what logic would tell us to do. That would give you 156watts (Only 6 watts more than the 150w CFL) and 10800 lumens (which is 1600 MORE lumens {almost an entire 26W CFL worth} that the 150W CFL)

So 1600 MORE lumens for only 6 more watts.

Again, just sharing some info. This is what I do instead of using the HUGE CFL's. It's also a LOT cheaper to replace these smaller bulbs for whenever the time comes. Because it's said that CFL's start to lose intensity after about 3 grows. Just some food for thought.

Don't FUCK with me and my CFL's! lol
Hope this helps with your decision. And if not, at least I was able to spread the knowledge. PEACE

-Hookd​

Dude You are so wrong!The 5u bulbs 125watt and 250watt put out way more lumens.Lumens do not compound.The small cfls give out 1700 lumens and thats all your gonna get I dont care if you puy 50 in there!Its still not the same as my 125watt 5u bulb kicking 8500 lumens.Lumens do not add up if I put 2 of my 125's in my tank I wont have 16,000 lumens.Ill have 8500 hundred lumens 2 times thats all.Buy the 125 5u feliz lights.They are about 40 bucks but SMOKE the little cfls.WAY MORE LUMENS MEANS WAY MORE BUD AND THESE LIGHTS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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This is exactly what we were debating. We know that smaller CFLs have higher lumen/watt ratios than their bigger brothers, what we wanted to know is if it's actually true that five 1000 lumen bulbs produce 5000 lumens or if it's just 1000 lumens spread out over a greater space. Some facts to support your argument would be nice though.

Oops, didn't notice Sticky's comment at the end. My bad Sticky! Turns out you were agreeing with all of us

sticky23 said:

Dude You are so wrong!The 5u bulbs 125watt and 250watt put out way more lumens.Lumens do not compound.The small cfls give out 1700 lumens and thats all your gonna get I dont care if you puy 50 in there!Its still not the same as my 125watt 5u bulb kicking 8500 lumens. Lumens do not add up if I put 2 of my 125's in my tank I wont have 16,000 lumens.Ill have 8500 hundred lumens 2 times thats all.Buy the 125 5u feliz lights.They are about 40 bucks but SMOKE the little cfls. WAY MORE LUMENS MEANS WAY MORE BUD AND THESE LIGHTS ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Alright friend, let me prove yet another one of you wrong..... lol With love, of course!.....
Incorrect, please do not post false things if you are not sure about them, because now you are just rambeling
Yes sir, they do. And I WILL prove you wrong.
Thankyou for pointing out the obviously... lol, every grower should already know that.

Here you go, I'm guessing you missed this..... READ

HookdOnChronics said:

Jakenbake said:

I hate to be the one to rain on everyone's parade but recently my thoughts were crushed when I read that lumens DO NOT compound. What I mean is if you've got 23W bulbs that emit 1500 lumens, if you have ten of those bulbs that does NOT equal 15,000 lumens. It equals 1500 lumens, spread out. It's something I'm still coming to terms with, but with that understanding, the only real way to get those high lumens is to use the 150W - 300W bulbs, then use a good reflector to spread it out evenly or use multiple large wattage CFLs to get the desired coverage. Just a little food for thought.

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Alright I KNEW I read something that states this is incorrect. But I wasn't going to say anything without being able to provide some sort of factual evidence. Anyways I was just doin some reading and I came back across it. It's in one of the 'stickys' I'll post exactly what is says. Then I'll toss up a link. At the bottom of the first post in the link, you can clearly see how the ambient lights is DOUBLED, when he turns on an extra light of the exact same wattage ect... LOOK: https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/83128-lumens-lux-adding-all-up.html

And here's what was said in that 'sticky':
"If you put two lights the same distance from a point, and each light provides N photons per unit area at the point, with two lights you will have 2N photons per unit area at the point. Because intensity is a measure of the number of photons per unit area, the light is twice as intense, whatever unit you choose to use. Twice the lumens, twice the lux, twice the footcandles. "

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You should have read the WHOLE thread before posting..... I'll go get a link to the thread, the STICKY, that I got this information off of.

Jakenbake said:

This is exactly what we were debating. We know that smaller CFLs have higher lumen/watt ratios than their bigger brothers, what we wanted to know is if it's actually true that five 1000 lumen bulbs produce 5000 lumens or if it's just 1000 lumens spread out over a greater space. Some facts to support your argument would be nice though.

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I've posted facts a few pages back. Facts I got off the sticky on this site. Facts that show LUMENS DO COMPOUND...... suckaz!

Here, I kind of shortened it already and did all the work for you, and told you all you need to know in my first post. lol
But you can go to this thread >>>> https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/83128-lumens-lux-adding-all-up.html <<<<< and if you start reading section '4.' You will see the facts...... Facts I've already stated... lol

SmokesLikeBob said:

Again with this shit!? Didn't we eliminate that theory a few pages back???

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lol I feel you man, and yes..... yes we did! Someone just didn't read the whole thing..... pitty

All of this, said in love, of course! GROW ON!

Well, It's all good...I tend to skip a few pages from time to time on other threads myself! haha

SmokesLikeBob said:

Well, It's all good...I tend to skip a few pages from time to time on other threads myself! haha

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Yea I think every body tends to do that from time to time..... lol, It's alright. All is well.

I have been to a lot of places and different forums regarding growing with cfl's, and let me just say this is by far the best and most informative. You stopped me from going and buying more expensive bulbs, which I was loathing. Question, do the 5000k 26 watt bulbs work as good as the 6500k 26 watt bulbs? The majority I have are all 5000k 26 watt bulbs in my grow tent. This is the last piece to my growing puzzle i need to solve. Thanks.

Just incredible! I hope everyone "enjoys" their "lumen's". Because your plants could care less about them. But they DO love the PAR.
Good luck......BB

freethoughexchange said:

I have been to a lot of places and different forums regarding growing with cfl's, and let me just say this is by far the best and most informative. You stopped me from going and buying more expensive bulbs, which I was loathing. Question, do the 5000k 26 watt bulbs work as good as the 6500k 26 watt bulbs? The majority I have are all 5000k 26 watt bulbs in my grow tent. This is the last piece to my growing puzzle i need to solve. Thanks.

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When the bulbs are labeled i.e.5000k, it is just refering to the color temperature, or spectrum of the light the bulb emits...and the higher the K(Kelvin)value is the more "blue" the light will be, and the lower the K value, the more "red" the light will be...

SLB

freethoughexchange said:

I have been to a lot of places and different forums regarding growing with cfl's, and let me just say this is by far the best and most informative. You stopped me from going and buying more expensive bulbs, which I was loathing. Question, do the 5000k 26 watt bulbs work as good as the 6500k 26 watt bulbs? The majority I have are all 5000k 26 watt bulbs in my grow tent. This is the last piece to my growing puzzle i need to solve. Thanks.

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Well the 5000k 26watt will work..... But if you can get the 6500k they'll veg faster. It's up to you bro. Either way when you go to flower get the 2700K's.

HookdOnChronics said:

Well the 5000k 26watt will work..... But if you can get the 6500k they'll veg faster. It's up to you bro. Either way when you go to flower get the 2700K's.

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I actually just updated and got 4 6500k. They made a bid difference. As soon as I stop being "lazy" and find my camera, I will post some pics. I had a dramatic increase in production in only two days of upgrading lights.

freethoughexchange said:

I actually just updated and got 4 6500k. They made a bid difference. As soon as I stop being "lazy" and find my camera, I will post some pics. I had a dramatic increase in production in only two days of upgrading lights.

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Hell yea bud!!! lol, that's why I said, go get the 6500K if you can afford it! Post some pix bro whenever you get em

HookdOnChronics said:

Hell yea bud!!! lol, that's why I said, go get the 6500K if you can afford it! Post some pix bro whenever you get em

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Finally got some pics, here they are

Two pics of my grow tent...6 23 watt 6500k and 5 26 watt 5000k

Here are my 2 White Rhino at 4 1/2 weeks from seed



Here is my white widow (in the back) right 4 1/2 weeks from seed, she is bushy as hell




And here are my babies 1 1/2 weeks from seed: 4 white rhino, 1 white widow, and 1 AK48: The AK48 is the smallest


Most people only show the good pics of their plants, I hate that...So, I am going to show you my plant that is topped and LST'd (around the side of the pot) and has been giving me problems from day one. She is one of the few that are in 100% Fox farm ocean forest and has had ph problems amongst other things I have not yet pinpointed. I believe it is the unbalance of nutrients and micro-organisms I found in the soil.

Excellent thread, will throw some rep around shortly.

Nice to see people have done their reading, sorry for those who haven't. Just to clear up any confusion, the following has been established as fact:

Adding more bulbs increases the amount of light.

Might seem obvious, but to some there is this bizarre belief that adding more bulbs does nothing because they believe that "lumens do not add up". As proved elsewhere on this site with a light meter, this is a nonsense statement that I have read far too often around here and is as frustrating as people who come to the CFL growing forum to offer nothing more than "CFLs are shit, you need to use MH + HPS".

You can achieve AMAZING results with CFL. I share clones with a HPS grower (1 600w tent, 1 400w tent) and we compare our results using the same genetics in the different environments. We have learned that watt for watt you get best value in HPS from a 400w setup (you get more from 600w, but not 50% more, more like 12.5% more so clearly less efficient) and that the same clones in my sub 400w CFL setup give approx the same result as far as yield, taste exactly the same and take the same time to reach maturity.

Respect to those who put thought into their growing, who are prepared to learn through research rather than parroting bullshit buzzword bingo statements like "lumens dont add".

I have treated my growing like a scientist. Learning everything I can like some of these guys here, about light, medium, environment, feed and genetics. I use timelapse video to monitor the results of everything I do and have had varying results. Different genetics react differently to environmental factors, so now I only grow genetics which are suited to my setup.

freethoughexchange said:

Here are my 2 White Rhino at 4 1/2 weeks from seed
View attachment 1163880View attachment 1163881


Here is my white widow (in the back) right 4 1/2 weeks from seed, she is bushy as hell

View attachment 1163903


And here are my babies 1 1/2 weeks from seed: 4 white rhino, 1 white widow, and 1 AK48: The AK48 is the smallest
View attachment 1163916View attachment 1163917

Most people only show the good pics of their plants, I hate that...So, I am going to show you my plant that is topped and LST'd (around the side of the pot) and has been giving me problems from day one. She is one of the few that are in 100% Fox farm ocean forest and has had ph problems amongst other things I have not yet pinpointed. I believe it is the unbalance of nutrients and micro-organisms I found in the soil.

View attachment 1163943View attachment 1163944View attachment 1163945View attachment 1163947

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Hey bro plants are lookin good! And for the one that's giving you problems. I'm not 100% sure what's going on. But if it was me. I would flush the plant, then feed 1/4 strength nutes with a little of superthrive and molasses. That's just me though. And I do not use FFOF soil. Or any FF soil for that matter. I use a soilless mix. So I dunno if that changes anything. Can you flush the nutes outa the FFOF? I honestly don't know. I'd assume you could if they aren't time or controlled relseas. Again tho, I'm a soilless grower.

spindles said:

Excellent thread, will throw some rep around shortly.

Nice to see people have done their reading, sorry for those who haven't. Just to clear up any confusion, the following has been established as fact:

Adding more bulbs increases the amount of light.

Might seem obvious, but to some there is this bizarre belief that adding more bulbs does nothing because they believe that "lumens do not add up". As proved elsewhere on this site with a light meter, this is a nonsense statement that I have read far too often around here and is as frustrating as people who come to the CFL growing forum to offer nothing more than "CFLs are shit, you need to use MH + HPS".

You can achieve AMAZING results with CFL. I share clones with a HPS grower (1 600w tent, 1 400w tent) and we compare our results using the same genetics in the different environments. We have learned that watt for watt you get best value in HPS from a 400w setup (you get more from 600w, but not 50% more, more like 12.5% more so clearly less efficient) and that the same clones in my sub 400w CFL setup give approx the same result as far as yield, taste exactly the same and take the same time to reach maturity.

Respect to those who put thought into their growing, who are prepared to learn through research rather than parroting bullshit buzzword bingo statements like "lumens dont add".

I have treated my growing like a scientist. Learning everything I can like some of these guys here, about light, medium, environment, feed and genetics. I use timelapse video to monitor the results of everything I do and have had varying results. Different genetics react differently to environmental factors, so now I only grow genetics which are suited to my setup.

Click to expand...

Hey and thanks for comin by bro and checkin it out! I agree with your post 100%!

VERY smart and every grower should do this!

Hey hooked... Great thread. I actually referred someone to it ealier today as he was struggling with his CFL lamp decision. Can I ask a solid of ya?

Will you look at my set up and tell me your suggestion on improving the light situation without increasing the heat too dramatically?

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/370312-easys-cfl-grow-box-journal.html

Right now I have 2 seeds just sprouting today actually in little cups I have two others that I expect to sprout within the next couple of days. The seeds are bag seed that I am using to test out my growing area and learning my techniques. I purchased some Low Ryder AK47 Auto-flowering seeds from Attitude that should arrive in a couple of days, but I wont grow them until I finish this experiment and learning process.

I too am using Fox Farms Ocean Forest and I have heard mostly great reviews. I understand your soilless mix person that blends your own organic material and that's cool. As a beginner, I want to take it one step at a time.

Anyhow, I have 4 X 23 Watt 6,500K CFL lamps running currently at 18/6. I have 2 X 40 Watt 2,700K lamps I was going to use for flowering (not currently running). I have four standard light outlets (two on each side). It seems I am going to need to up my lighting capabilities based on what I have read (and I have read a lot). You being one of the experts (based on actual experience) I sure would like to hear your thoughts on my situation. +Rep BTW.

Easy420forme said:

Hey hooked... Great thread. I actually referred someone to it ealier today as he was struggling with his CFL lamp decision. Can I ask a solid of ya?

Will you look at my set up and tell me your suggestion on improving the light situation without increasing the heat too dramatically?

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/370312-easys-cfl-grow-box-journal.html

Right now I have 2 seeds just sprouting today actually in little cups I have two others that I expect to sprout within the next couple of days. The seeds are bag seed that I am using to test out my growing area and learning my techniques. I purchased some Low Ryder AK47 Auto-flowering seeds from Attitude that should arrive in a couple of days, but I wont grow them until I finish this experiment and learning process.

I too am using Fox Farms Ocean Forest and I have heard mostly great reviews. I understand your soilless mix person that blends your own organic material and that's cool. As a beginner, I want to take it one step at a time.

Anyhow, I have 4 X 23 Watt 6,500K CFL lamps running currently at 18/6. I have 2 X 40 Watt 2,700K lamps I was going to use for flowering (not currently running). I have four standard light outlets (two on each side). It seems I am going to need to up my lighting capabilities based on what I have read (and I have read a lot). You being one of the experts (based on actual experience) I sure would like to hear your thoughts on my situation. +Rep BTW.

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Hey bro first off I gotta say, thank you. You have actually done your research and sound like you sort of know what your getting yourself into. I went into your thread and watched your video. Been workin since 8 this mornin so I didn't get further than that. But I'll answer these questions for now...

#1. Thank you! That makes me feel good! But I am in absolutely NO WAY an expert! lol. I just know how to keep MY plants happy and healthy. Which in turn, gives me what I consider to be premium smoke!

Soil. Yes I use a soilless mix. I like to choose/judge all the nutes/amount of nutes, goin in my dirt. Be careful with the FFOF. It's great soil from all I've heard and read. I haven't used it before except for getting a clone planted in it already. And I'll tell you this. You absolutely do not need to add any nutrients at all within the first 4 weeks from sprout! In my expierence anyways. I got a clone in FFOF that was about 6" and 2 weeks old. I used just plain water for then next 3 weeks, plenty of nutes already in the soil.

I can help you out a whole lot more if you tell me how many plants you plant on flowering in there. Then I can give you sort of estimates on veg time or whatever. Your going to want 100 ACTUAL watts per plant, bare minimum for good end product. Otherwise your getting a small yield and fluffy buds. If you can, I'd go to your local hardware store and get some Y splitters that go into light sockets. That will double your lighting wattage.

About your ventilation. This is just what I would do, personally. But there is no need at all for an intake fan. What you want is a negative pressure area which you get by using a passive intake. What I mean is, your intake fan. Take it off, turn it around, and use it as an exhaust fan. A THIRD exhaust fan. Trust me dude, this will be better! lol. This is what I think you should do. Drill a couple 2X4's on 2 sides of the bottom of your box to lift it off the ground ever so slightly. Then drill some holes in the bottom floor of the box for air to get pulled through. This is your passive intake. Now having your three exhaust fans pulling 265 CFM of air THROUGH (in and out) of your box, it will keep your teps lower than just pulling 165 CFM of air out. Ya dig?... lol.

Does that make sense? I'm medicated, so I'm sorry if it doesn't. Just let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

Thanks for the rep dog. Always appreciated. I sometimes forget to check this thread, so sorry for the late response. If I don't reply within a couple days PM me and I'll remember to get back to ya. Let me know what you think of my ideas tho, I'll have some time off this week to get back to you about any questions or clarifications (sp?)