Looking to buy marshydro LEDs ?help

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az2000

Well-Known Member
superbak3d said:
Here's a few from my last run. Same tent, under single 250w CFL.

So technically I could say I am comparing a 250w CFL to a mars300 (new edition).
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1. I believe CFL at 62w/sq ft will outperform Mars Hydro at 37w/sq ft.

If you did 3 shorter plants like you did with the CFL, maybe it would come close. It would be interesting to see.

2. Do you have a link to this "Mars300 new edition?" There is no 300 on their website. I think you're upselling yourself to last year's model which they're closing out at discount prices.

If that's true, then there's little hope that better diodes are being used.
 
superbak3d

superbak3d

Well-Known Member
I don't know what the actual wattage of the CFL is though. It's an apollo horticulture 250w 2700k.

And yes, the 3 plants under the CFL were grown short. I pulled an oz off each one, my final dry weight was around 90g.

Honestly if I could manage it, I'd run both the CFL and mars, but it's not feasible in a 2x2
 
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Fenderman84

Member
I purchased my first grow light about 6 weeks ago after doing enough research to assure that i could at least keep them alive and a general idea of growing in general.

I started with a marshydro 300w (140w actual / last years marsII)... Mainly because its what i thought was a good deal at the time. I also recall reading something about LED grow lights producing more resin or promoting the growth of trichromes... Which is why i looked into LED in the first place.

I felt my first grow was coming along pretty well, so i ordered a second mars 300w (140w actual / last year's marsII) and seeds from a bank.

Make no mistake about it, at no point have i ever thought marshydro was a marquise light. I was just under the impression that what i had would give me a useable yield.i have to admit, my ignorance is of my own doing... I never thought of how a lower w/sq ft. Would affect bud density. I thought it would just produce smaller buds.

At this point it feels like the only way to save my crop is to combine both mars lights and hope it will be enough. I put a 45w (actual) cfl bulb in the middle but it seems silly to need 325w for 4 plants doesnt it?

So now i need to invest into a third light system, so i can finally get a perpetual harvest going once my seeds arrive.if cash is king then the argument of efficiency skips w/ ft^2 and goes to w/g.

So with my marshydro setup being good for veg state, what would be my best option at a cheap bloom light to best match my veg production abilities?
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Fenderman84 said:
So with my marshydro setup being good for veg state, what would be my best option at a cheap bloom light to best match my veg production abilities?
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I'm sorry you had that experience. CMH is the usual recommendation for those who can't afford (or don't need the efficiency of quality LED.). What space are you growing in? Do you have DIY skills (to drill/tap holes, solder)?
 
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Fenderman84

Member
I have a room in my house that i keep my hockey equipment in normally. That is where my grow room will be (roughly 10x12). Unfortunately until Jan1st i have friends stay with me.

So for now im growing in my closet.

Also to the guy who wants to double his mars lamps in the short tent... My temps werent an issue at all before... I had my plants in a 2x3 foil lined box with ambient temps in the mid 70's. A few hours after i added my second light the temps jumped into the 90s. I had to take the plants out of the box but the circulation is worth the light waste imho. But of course thats coming from a guy who is learning as he goes. I could be totally wrong in that assumption but i doubt it.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Fenderman84 said:
That is where my grow room will be (roughly 10x12).
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That's a big space. Do you want to fill that immediately, or scale into it as you learn? What's your budget?

I wouldn't expect inexpensive LEDs on eBay/Amazon to work much better than your experience with Mars.

I think your budget (and whether you want to fill that space at once) would dictate whether you do CMH, DIY COB, or buy pre-made COB fixtures.

The pre-made fixtures usually recommended here are: Tasty, Johnson, Area-51. Pacific, Amare, Go Green. (Go Green needs an SEO consultant. They're difficult to find in Google. It's gogreenleds. There's a multitude of "Go Green" names out there.). If there's any I missed, hopefully someone will add to that list.

It sounds like you would run COBs at around 25-30w/sq ft. That might help you see the expense of those fixtures. CMH would be 35/40w/sq ft.
 
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Fenderman84

Member
The room itself is 12x10 but i doubt i will ever make all 120ft^2 usable. If for no other reason, the electric bill alone will cost more per month than i pay in hockey league fees all year.

Honestly i recently saw a 10x6x6.8 tent that had me curious. I see tasty makes some pretty long lights in the $500 range. I was thinking of maybe a tent that size with maybe three sets of those lights staggared in the tent in almost an [-_-] setup. Then i can have 3 different strains in flower and 1 or 2 different strains going in veg.

Of course at that point I'll need creative ways to use the crop. And this is all just a day dream for now. I honestly expect to have my set up pretty nailed down by this time next year and then start my reasearch on soiless grows.

Ultimately i do have a day job so this will remain a hobby for me. With that said i only have so much money at a time to invest i to my hobbies. So right now, i guess my ideal 3rd light would be something around 600w. I feel with a 600w set up i should be perfectly capable of growing a respectful yield... Or i don't have the skill required to grow. For me, i would like to pick up this 3rd light at a cost of roughly $200 shipped.

At $200 and this being a hobby, i wont feel lik im sinking too much money into the hobby but as it stands right now im already over $300 into something knowing i have to spend more. And spending $500 before i have a usable gram is a bit racking to someone who isnt even sure if they can grow a proper plant.

Or in other words... I view $500 as
A new pair of hockey skates
A new goalie mask
A new lens for my camera
Some bdsm equipment
A full beer making stil
A nice acoustic electric guitar
A really nice baby stroller
An std free hooker for a couple hours

There are plenty on here who will quickly trash a low end light or a set up they feel is below par. In reality 500 is an amount i dont sneeze at when you look at start up cost on a venture youre still unsure of. Its easy to tell others to start with a $800 light, just like its easy for me to tell an 18 year old to go out and buy a lexus because he will thank me later. The more established you are the easier it is to justify bigger and more expensive set ups.


If it wasnt for people like az2000 here giving helping knowledge and advice, i would probably have grown disgusted with those on here looking for a witch hunt.

With all that said.im not trying to justify mars beyond the fact that its what i purchased without knowing better and its what im going to use till i can render the mars units obsolete in my grow cycles. Yes there is better out there. Sure you can show me a cfl thread with higher yields than mars. Good for that person... I hope they enjoy the hobby as much as i have so far
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Fenderman84 said:
For me, i would like to pick up this 3rd light at a cost of roughly $200 shipped.

At $200 and this being a hobby,
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If it were me, I would continue using your Mars and supplement with Cree 9.5w LED lightbulbs (and 18w PAR38 floods/spots). That would let you leverage what you already have, and acquire some relatively efficient LEDs you can continue to use as you add more light, eventually discarding the Mars. It should work really well. I started doing that with a Blackstar UFO, which i think is about the same quality of light as Mars.

If you wanted to step up from that, you could build some low-watt COBs to use as sidelight.

After that, I think the choice is between CMH for top-light (maybe using the Mars as sidelight). Or, spending more for a COB fixture (or making your own). A SunSystem LEC315 will cover 3x3 at 35w/sq ft. If you were trying to do 4x4, you could use your Mars to fill in (plus any lightbulbs or low-watt COBs you might acquire.). It's just a matter of whether you want to spend more for a COB fixture, or build your own.

But, you could do a lot with minimal expense by supplementing the Mars.
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
It should work really well. I started doing that with a Blackstar UFO, which i think is about the same quality of light as Mars.
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I was thinking about that a little more. I don't advocate Blackstar. (I think it's about the same as Mars, but you pay more for a domestic experience.). But, it really flowers well with four Cree 9.5w 2800k bulbs around the top-sides. Very well, when most of the light energy comes from the UFO (85w from the top, 38w from the Crees).

I wonder if what's missing from the Mars is full-spectrum light. It would be interesting for you (or someone who has grown with Mars alone) to try supplementing it with those Cree bulbs. Add 40% and see if it makes it like what people who run Mars at 300% (the 90w/sq ft grows).

That could make Mars more useful to people on a budget, if just adding some white light fills in a vital spectrum(?).
 
F

Fenderman84

Member
Its certainly an interesting concept... To supplement the light spectrum of mars with cree bulbs. Theoretically i think it has the possibility to fill out the plants photosynthesis. I just wonder how much benefit ill see with 9.5w (actual) vs how much extra heat ill have to combat.

Maybe i simply dont understand cree bulbs, but the br30 looks like a heat monster and the a19 looks like such a soft light that i question how much better of a light it is than my 45w (actual) cfl photography bulb that i have been using.

Really i think i want to try the cree bulbs as a side light after i buy a third light, but it seems a bit like polishing a turd if i have to add a seperate mars set up AND a series of cree bulbs just to make a suitable flower set up
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Fenderman84 said:
Maybe i simply dont understand cree bulbs, but the br30 looks like a heat monster and the a19 looks like such a soft light that i question how much better of a light it is than my 45w (actual) cfl photography bulb that i have been using.
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I don't use the BR30 except for very tight-fit situations. Even then, I think some SMD5630 "corncob" lights from AliExpress (getincoin, buybay) would be better. I don't think BR30 is as efficient as the A19 in a reflector, or the PAR38.

I'm positive 45w actual of A19 or PAR38 will produce more useable light, less heat than CFLs. The A19 with the gummy protective film removed is about 95 L/w. A CFL is around 70.

I think the only question is whether they're worth the purchase price. With a 10-year warranty, it's more of a longer-term investment. I would use them no matter what the top light is because I think side-light (distributing the wattage around a plant) is a significant efficiency. (But, in a large grow space the bulbs can be tedious to manage.).

Fenderman84 said:
it seems a bit like polishing a turd if i have to add a separate mars set up AND a series of cree bulbs just to make a suitable flower set up
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It depends on your goals. It sounded like you didn't want to fill out your 120sq/ft space immediately. Also that you didn't want to spend alot after having bought Mars. Adding $100 in Cree bulbs could be a "low-hanging fruit." If you already have CFLs, you could use them. But, I strongly advise putting them in reflectors. I think CFLs get a bad rap because they're usually hung in free space, radiating everywhere. The Cree bulbs would do if they were used like that.

Try to prioritize your goals. How large of a space do you want to grow? How fast do you want to expand? If heat's a concern, you're looking at the COB brands I mentioned (or DIYing your own). If it's not a concern, CMH/LEC might be a more cost-effective choice.

It sounds like you're in a cool climate. Why is heat a concern? If I weren't in a hot climate, I would have bought CMH a long time ago. For me it was worth it to pay a premium for Area-51.
 
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Fenderman84

Member
I am in the mid Atlantic region of the US, so right now its cool, but summer can get warm. Really that makes no difference as im an indoor grower and i keep my house between 72-74 degrees. I guess my concern here is that in the summer i can additionally regulate temps by putting a window A/C unit in the grow room. Right now i dont have that option and have an irrational fear of heat soaking my plants.

As for expansion... I would like to get a third light ordered next week. Beyond that, i just want to complete my first grow or maybe my second, figure out what i can do to be more efficient and successful, THEN move on to adding at least one more flower set up.

So maybe a secondary unit in about 2 months.

Im sure a cmh light will be suitable for my needs, im just totally ignorant on those configurations. I see bulbs that say 315 on them, and others that say 400w. Do they make a 600w? Is 600w not a useable light? And then i see stuff about volts on the ballast. Maybe i should be in the h.i.d. section to ask these questions.

If i were to flower in the mars lights i would see a serious need to buy the a19 bulb (to at least see if it would help with the spectrum). If i were to buy a cmh light, would there still be a need to go with cree lights? Money aside, cmh will have different light spectrum so what would be ideal side lighting to supplement a cmh too light?
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
Fenderman84 said:
Im sure a cmh light will be suitable for my needs, I'm totally ignorant on those configurations. I see bulbs that say 315 on them, and others that say 400w. Do they make a 600w? Is 600w not a useable light? And then i see stuff about volts on the ballast. Maybe i should be in the h.i.d. section to ask these questions.
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I know what you mean. I barely understand the CMH options myself. @growerr is the best source for that info.

If i were to flower in the mars lights i would see a serious need to buy the a19 bulb (to at least see if it would help with the spectrum). If i were to buy a cmh light, would there still be a need to go with cree lights? Money aside, cmh will have different light spectrum so what would be ideal side lighting to supplement a cmh too light?[/QUOTE]

There was a recent thread where I tried to summarize what I could get from the choices. That would be good background for you. I think the gold-standard for CMH is the SunSystems LEC315. But, now we're seeing similar lights like the Hydrofarm Phantom (mentioned in the LEC thread yesterday). And, growerr mentioned an AdvancedTech cobble-together system which is pretty reasonable (but, I think the downside is that it requires 220v).

There's also Philips All-Start bulbs which run in MH ballasts (but not digital, I later learned). And, there is a ColorMaster Retro which runs in HPS (I assume not digital either. But, it appears that bulb may be discontinued.).

It seems the Hydrofarm comes with a ColorMaster bulb. I think that's different than the Agro Elite which the SunSystems and AdvancedTech uses (with a special ballast). But, I could be wrong. Like you said, all the names are confusing.

Fenderman84 said:
If I were to buy a cmh light, would there still be a need to go with cree lights? Money aside, cmh will have different light spectrum so what would be ideal side lighting to supplement a cmh too light?
Click to expand...
You don't have to supplement/side light with CMH as the top light. But, you could use your Mars vertically as a sidelight. I like to side light, or at least provide more light sources at the top for more angles. So, you could expand your space with the Mars. The LEC 315 covers 3x3, I believe. You could add some space with the Mars on the side, 45-degree shoulder light.

You said in your first post you wanted more distributed sources of light. That could be a reason to look at Area-51 LED. Those 90w lights cover 3.3 sq ft. You could expand more incrementally. They also connect into a monolithic fixture if you get tired of hanging/managing multiple lights.

I'm sure the other COB fixtures are good. But, for more distributed light, Area-51 is the choice. (But, you have to be patient. Demand seems to outpace supply.).
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
Fenderman84 said:
The room itself is 12x10 but i doubt i will ever make all 120ft^2 usable. If for no other reason, the electric bill alone will cost more per month than i pay in hockey league fees all year.

Honestly i recently saw a 10x6x6.8 tent that had me curious. I see tasty makes some pretty long lights in the $500 range. I was thinking of maybe a tent that size with maybe three sets of those lights staggared in the tent in almost an [-_-] setup. Then i can have 3 different strains in flower and 1 or 2 different strains going in veg.

Of course at that point I'll need creative ways to use the crop. And this is all just a day dream for now. I honestly expect to have my set up pretty nailed down by this time next year and then start my reasearch on soiless grows.

Ultimately i do have a day job so this will remain a hobby for me. With that said i only have so much money at a time to invest i to my hobbies. So right now, i guess my ideal 3rd light would be something around 600w. I feel with a 600w set up i should be perfectly capable of growing a respectful yield... Or i don't have the skill required to grow. For me, i would like to pick up this 3rd light at a cost of roughly $200 shipped.

At $200 and this being a hobby, i wont feel lik im sinking too much money into the hobby but as it stands right now im already over $300 into something knowing i have to spend more. And spending $500 before i have a usable gram is a bit racking to someone who isnt even sure if they can grow a proper plant.

Or in other words... I view $500 as
A new pair of hockey skates
A new goalie mask
A new lens for my camera
Some bdsm equipment
A full beer making stil
A nice acoustic electric guitar
A really nice baby stroller
An std free hooker for a couple hours

There are plenty on here who will quickly trash a low end light or a set up they feel is below par. In reality 500 is an amount i dont sneeze at when you look at start up cost on a venture youre still unsure of. Its easy to tell others to start with a $800 light, just like its easy for me to tell an 18 year old to go out and buy a lexus because he will thank me later. The more established you are the easier it is to justify bigger and more expensive set ups.


If it wasnt for people like az2000 here giving helping knowledge and advice, i would probably have grown disgusted with those on here looking for a witch hunt.

With all that said.im not trying to justify mars beyond the fact that its what i purchased without knowing better and its what im going to use till i can render the mars units obsolete in my grow cycles. Yes there is better out there. Sure you can show me a cfl thread with higher yields than mars. Good for that person... I hope they enjoy the hobby as much as i have so far
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To be honest that's it use what works , Mars never claimed to be the best out there but like anything else it will grow any plant ..
And for the person that said he got 2 grams per plant haha i suggest you search for another hobby, maybe knitting or something cause to say that , You just should admit you fucked up..
And also You should do your home work, on return policies , Cause there is laws in place to protect the consumers, Laws as in 30 day money back if your not satisfied , Or that is not what you expected .. As in your flowering switch that goes for EVERYTHING sold.. by any company ,, only time a person gets screwed is when he buys something from used or another identity . where buyer beware....

But Mars lights are a entry level set up ,And there units are pretty cheap in price compared to others , and who really cares if you need to add more cheap costly Mars units so be it if your dead set on using LED's.
sure some other LED units are good but there also 1200 + and really i would bet if someone did a test as in cost wise lets say a top end LED unit for 2200 bucks and then someone spent the same on mars units 2200 who would yield more
First thing that pop's in my mind is ventilation , Get over it people all indoor growing needs ventilation and all electrical appliances create heat ,, EVEN COBS So to say that this COB unit is 60 percent efficient what is the other 40 percent ???? Heat maybe ??? ..
Yes Cob's produce heat ,
Example ,, i have a 5 x 5 x 8 sealed box 1000 watt COB unit Remember its sealed how many hrs will it take to exceed optimum plant temp ???
and lets face it ,,, DIY cobs are not cheap to build specially making a 300 - 1000 watt unit

Az i get the feeling way your talking is like you think your some Jedi grower would you have a link to a journal , or anything , you seem to push COB do you even have one or even a LED unit ??? or CMH , Or even T5's i mean really dude ..
all the stuff you are saying unless you actually used both means nothing,, and should be taken with a grain of salt
 
F

Fenderman84

Member
I believe hes given links to a self admittedly cheap china ufo LED light he uses in a 2x2 tent.

Az is a good guy from what ive seen. Hes been very supportive of my grow since my first post, and multiple times throughout these 13 pages, he has stopped and gave the disclaimer of:

China lights have their place as long as you are informed enough to know that there are higher quality, higher efficient options out there (at a higher price tag of course)
 
superbak3d

superbak3d

Well-Known Member
I try and look at things in a investment vs return.

I mean, you spend 60 dollars on a light. What's that equate to in pot, a quarter?

So for the sake of argument, I spend 60 dollars on a light, I only need to grow 7 grams to cover my investment. There's no doubt a mars can grow at least a 1 oz plant, I've done that with handfuls of CFL bulbs. In my area, an oz will run around 300 bucks or more.

For small or new growers, that's not a bad deal.

Take it to the next level. Say you spend 1,000 dollars on a light and only harvest 4 ounces, that's not much difference over the mars. Percentage wise, it's actually less.

Sure this is all hypothetical scenarios based on pot prices in my area. But I think people should be aware of their investment vs return.

If I get 2 ounces of good bud off a 60 dollar light, that's a 1000% return. Explain how that is a bad thing for small, low budget growers?
 
A

az2000

Well-Known Member
superbak3d said:
If I get 2 ounces of good bud off a 60 dollar light, that's a 1000% return. Explain how that is a bad thing for small, low budget growers?
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I agree. But, eventually they don't like the airy buds, they triple up the Mars, run 90w/sq ft. to do what they could have done with a CMH for less money than 3 Mars Hydros running almost 3 times the watts.

That's an extreme example. I don't think too many go that far. But, it does get to the cost justification. If you can run 50-60w/sq ft, why not buy CMH for the same price? Or, T5HO for shorter grows? Now you have a long-term investment, commoditized parts.

It seems like a balancing act. Buying a Mars isn't the end of the world, and may meet the needs of the grower to supply themself. (I don't care if I smoke airy buds. I get super high trimming, smoking the airbuds from the bottom.). The problem seems to be when they try to step it up with more Mars. (Or, someone expected dense nuggets and then they dislike all LED.).

I think as long as people have a reasonable expectation, it's all good.

I'd still like to see one of you guys supplement with Cree lightbulbs or PAR38s. (Say, 40% of the watts.). I'm serious, it turned my Blackstar into a legit flower light. I bet adding the missing spectrum would make a difference.
 
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