liquid cooled led`s ?

mamakush said:

Ah, I didn't get that. Seems to me like having one enormous diode would seriously limit spectral capabilities. Plants use a lot more different wavelengths than just red and blue to grow and produce all those wonderful compounds.

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Or you can cover alot of the spectrum with all white LED's.

You could always buy an icebox from hydro innovations and blow a fan on the LED directly. Might work well.

Has anyone ever tried a liquid cpu cooler on a led? They work great for my CPU keeps it cool to 40 degrees

THE KONASSURE said:

when I say 1w led`s suck I don`t mean that they are not the most efficient leds

Because well they are

The problem with 1w leds is penetration they simply can not penetrate very far at all you need to blanket the whole of the canopy with them and you need to grow pretty short plants to take full advantage of 1w leds

A 600w hps on the other had has tons of penetration as such you can grow a 2m plant under a 600w hps and even the lower buds will fill out nice

So I wanted to find something that will kick the ass of the oh so loved hps light and that happens around the 40 to 100w mark with led`s but if we push to 100w then you can grow a whole bunch of huge plants under a 1000w led with some kind of lens on it I would guess that you could set it around 3 or even 4 meters high and still have tons of light even at ground level

A 1000w led would kick the ass out of a 1000w hps and still produce less heat, it`s a single unit and it should last over 3 years

What I`m saying is that yes 1w leds are great for someone who wants to grow tons of small plants but if you want to grow a few big plants or loads of big plants then you have to go for a much bigger chip size.

Hmm nice light I brought something a bit like that myself but mine use 4 x 100w led chips that are driven at around 75w I have 2 of them running a 5:1 red/blue and then I have a 200w 3000k induction light.

I`m just vegging some plants under 1 led and the induction at the moment and they are growing so so fast I can`t wait to get to the point where I flip them over to 12/12 and smack on the 2nd led light there ganna make some super dank crystal buds I know because my last grow got my new leds for the last 5 to 6 days of the grow and they went crazy and crystallized up like nothing I`d seen before.

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Where did you find the 4x100w led chip lights? And how do you like them? I've been wondering why people aren't using led lights with 50w+ diodes. So, just to get this straight, the reason there are not more led lights with 50w+ diodes is because there is currently no way to cool the lights or drivers efficiently? I hope you figure it out. Led's are definitely the way of the future

Yeah...i wish there was somebody using these 50w diodes....let me know if you find somebody....

When I said, "LED's are the way of the future" I meant that soon they will be the number one choice for growers. I know people get good results with them now, but now won't be comparable to when LED lights commonly have 50w+ chips. At that time every LED user will be able to grow trees and I mean trees; and MH and HPS will be a thing of the past.

Wait, rikdabrick, you're talking about 50W LED chips, right? The ones inside Chronikool's flood lights?

Also, I'm pretty sure this is where KONASSURE got his panel.
http://www.vanqled.com/ledgrowlight/index_xx.asp?id=464

Bumping Spheda said:

Wait, rikdabrick, you're talking about 50W LED chips, right? The ones inside Chronikool's flood lights?Also, I'm pretty sure this is where KONASSURE got his panel.http://www.vanqled.com/ledgrowlight/index_xx.asp?id=464

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Thanks for the link Bumping. I haven't seen Chronikool's flood lights. And I actually haven't used LED's yet. Only outdoor growing for me so far, but they do interest me and I keep up on the technology somewhat regularly. I may have used the wrong word by saying chip or something. I just meant that results now are good with LED's, but they will be incredible when it's common to have 1000w+ lights made up with 50w or 100w+ diodes in them. Indoor growers will realistically be able to have the same power as the sun. Sorry for any confusion. This thread interested me because I was thinking of trying to make am LED light using 100w diodes but I didn't know it was difficult to cool them. So, thanks for the info KONASSURE

they are integrated 1 watt chips if that is the vanqled im interested at how well this panel works out the Manufacturor claim great things but when approached about interdependent testing they declined They have very large heat sinks on these but are supposed to be pretty noisy as they use 100 mill fans at high revs needs work
anyone with more detailed information please let me know

rikdabrick, I'm still not on the same page as you I don't think. Like Campo Cultivator alluded, these 100W chips use one hundred 1W diodes in a grid-type matrix in order to achieve 100W of LED in a relatively small footprint. Given LED's are, on average, 20%-25% efficient that's still 75-80W of heat that you'll need to get rid of for each 100W LED chip. I'm not aware of a singular, 100W diode apart from laser diodes that are used to cut through sheet metal and whatnot. Those things are crazy. But if we're talking about 100W LED chips then yea, you can grow with those.
Chronikool with his flood lights:
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/600170-chronikool-z-led-organic-sog.html
Gastanker with his DIY 100W'ers:
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/538173-cheapo-diy-chinese-led-grow.html

Campo, I'm sure you could swap out the fans for quieter ones.

I sent vanq an inquiry. They can make grow panels with customizable ratios that are using 50W and 100W chips? Wait, what? Sooooo... DIY Kessil? Idk, that could be fun.

Bumping Spheda said:

rikdabrick, I'm still not on the same page as you I don't think. Like Campo Cultivator alluded, these 100W chips use one hundred 1W diodes in a grid-type matrix in order to achieve 100W of LED in a relatively small footprint. Given LED's are, on average, 20%-25% efficient that's still 75-80W of heat that you'll need to get rid of for each 100W LED chip. I'm not aware of a singular, 100W diode apart from laser diodes that are used to cut through sheet metal and whatnot. Those things are crazy. But if we're talking about 100W LED chips then yea, you can grow with those.
Chronikool with his flood lights:
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/600170-chronikool-z-led-organic-sog.html
Gastanker with his DIY 100W'ers:
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/538173-cheapo-diy-chinese-led-grow.html

Campo, I'm sure you could swap out the fans for quieter ones.

I sent vanq an inquiry. They can make grow panels with customizable ratios that are using 50W and 100W chips? Wait, what? Sooooo... DIY Kessil? Idk, that could be fun.

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Thanks a lot for explaining that Bumping. I think those are the 100w chips I was talking about. I didn't know that how those work. And thanks for those links too. I really appreciate your patience to explain stuff you all know already. So, how great is the penetration with these 100w chips? Also, are these chips made by Alta the same as the ones you're talking about? http://www.altaled.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=62

Nope, we're talking about two different manufacturers of LED chips. A lot of these Chinese manufacturers swear that they use 45mil Epistar or Epiled dies. Dunno. Is one brand better than the other? Probably. Worth the price difference? Probably not if you're me, but you should cover your bases by making sure you have proper thermal coupling to your heat sinks, proper sized heat sinks, proper fans if needed, and making sure you run the LED chips themselves within the proper Wattage. As for penetration:
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/538173-cheapo-diy-chinese-led-grow-24.html
Pretty darn cool grow if you ask me. He liked the 100W'ers enough to go out and find a better deal on more chips. I guess he was looking at 30W'ers, but already bought/made materials for a panel using 50W chips? Regardless, you can see what he's doing with 150W of LED, and they are (well... were, I guess, Idk where he is now) flowering quite well, imo. I'd say on par with 150W of HPS? And that's arguably with the wrong spectral distribution. Imagine if that was 150W of custom LED chips with a higher percentage of 700nm-600nm light.


Also -and this might be getting kinda far out there, but here goes nothing- maybe keep in mind that plants aren't very efficient themselves. Some one else has quoted this excerpt from Wikipedia a few times (forgive me for not remembering your name atm):

Stated another way:
100% sunlight → non-bioavailable photons waste is 47%, leaving
53% (in the 400–700 nm range) → 30% of photons are lost due to incomplete absorption, leaving
37% (absorbed photon energy) → 24% is lost due to wavelength-mismatch degradation to 700 nm energy, leaving
28.2% (sunlight energy collected by chlorophyl) → 32% efficient conversion of ATP and NADPH to d-glucose, leaving
9% (collected as sugar) → 35–40% of sugar is recycled/consumed by the leaf in dark and photo-respiration, leaving
5.4% net leaf efficiency.

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Now, I have very little understanding of what all that means, but I do know that "5.4% net leaf efficiency" sounds like a God-awful number to me. I also understand that commercial man-made solar panels are... ~15% efficient on a good day? That's just converting sunlight into electricity, mind you. Now convert that electricity into smokable herb... I guess what I'm trying to say is not only is there a lot of waste going on here, but there's also many ways to skin a cat. You may have heard this before, but here it is again: It ain't the light, it's the grower. If you can get 50W LED chips for the best W/$ ratio (of course this number should incorporate the $ spent on heat sinks, cool tubes, ballasts, LED drivers, cooling fans, AC units, etc. while assuming each Watt has a sexy spectral distribution according to today's applicable knowledge and also considering upkeep/maintenance costs) then maybe that should be your starting point? But now how do you maximize the amount of light -that you actually generate after a whole slew of other losses not really related to leaf efficiency- that gets turned into bud? Grow bushes not trees? Dome Of Green, not Screen Of Green?

Perhaps the method in which you grow has a larger effect over your gpw than you think. Maybe the difference is larger than even the light source itself? Actually, I can almost guarantee you that my light will not be the bottleneck in my system and that I will be.

Here is another hero of mine 'Bumping Spheda': ..... https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/513853-home-made-led-grow-lights.html

Thanks again for the info Bumping. I checked out those grow journals you posted; good stuff there. I like to see these kind of experiments and ingenuity.