Bongilishes
Member
i love scrog porn
Let's talk serious SCROG
- Thread starter profgrow
- Start date
garethleauk
Well-Known Member
Hey everyone, been loving this thread. I would just like some advice quickly and once again sorry if i have asked something that can be googled but. I have a grow room with a height of 2 meters. now if my pots are 30cm tall and i am using the U shaped SCROG method then how tall should the space be between the top of the pots to the middle part of the SCROG screen? 60cm 80cm 90cm????? i will be converting my grow room soon to 1.8meters length x 1.2meters wide x 2 meters height, i will be using 1 600 watt but with a light rail. do you think i will still achieve huge yields if i go that route. Obviously still using the U shaped SCROG method. thanks. O and how tall should one want their buds to be when they finish off using the SCROG method. Do i just Veg my plants till they fill out the screen and then flower.
profgrow
Active Member
First off, when using the U shape you do not need a light rail. Rails are used to get more coverage to the surface, if your scrog is a U shape it should "mirror" the light output making any need for moving lights null.
For distance between the growing medium and the screen you can kinda wing it, 30cm is pretty good but really as long as you can get your hands under the canopy to do some pruning/watering any height will work. My current grow gives me barely enough room for my hands at about 5 inches at the highest point but its enough this time around.
With a room height of 2m you can afford to use up almost a meter on soil buckets and screen, as long as you can keep your light far enough from your plants to keep the temp down.
If you are looking for an exact breakdown of your room size heres my opinion: 30cm bucket with 30 cm gap to screen. the light should be between 40-60 cm above the center of the U and side should curve keeping that measurement.
Yes, veg until your screen is pretty much full and then reassess after 1 week of flowering. Bud sizes will depend on strain really. The strain i am currently running (afghan/skunk) only buds about 20cm above the screen with some only 10cm and some up to 25cm, i have seen strains that will go 30+cm over the screen and i have seen short/fat kush plants only avg about 15.
With these calculations your screen is roughly 60 cm above the floor, leaving you a good 40cm distance between the light and the canopy and still be able to move the light up another 40-70 cm before you hit the ceiling.
Conversion for us "dumb Americans":
1ft pots with 1 foot between the pot and screen, light is 1-2 ft above the canopy leaving 2-3 ft for the light to be adjusted upward as the plant flowers.
Hope this helped, again, my conversions may not be that great because the only time we use metric here in "the colonies" is when we try to measure things that are very small or are building furniture from Ikea lolz!
profgrow
Active Member
Based on what you are going for, if using the diagram i hastily threw together, that is a perfect frame!Just finished this a minute or two before the lights kicked off... its 45 inches with 11 inches of 45 degrees at the end of both sides. Super quick build but came out tits. View attachment 1778873I'll net it in the am and post a better pic. Fun stuff
Really, i couldn't have done better myself. Here's something to look out for though (and I'm sure you thought of this) PVC tubing is an excellent building material, versatile/lightweight and inexpensive. There are 2 types of pvc conduit on the market, one of them is benign, the other releases chlorine gas when exposed to too much light.
As I'm sure you are using the neutral pvc i will direct this to others looking to build frames with this material. Before you buy any PVC material go on-line and look up the plastic code printed on the side of the tubing, this will tell you if you have the type that uses chlorine gas or not.
Chlorine gas is present in many sources, my local city water uses the gas to kill bacteria and algae so my reservoir needs to sit for 24 hours to release the gas before it can be ph'd and used. PVC grow tents also can release chlorine gas when exposed to light. The makers of "Hydro hut" have admitted to using this material in the past.
What happens when plants are exposed to chlorine gas you ask? well, they act like the ph is out of whack and often get burnt leaf tips, this is difficult to recover from and has cost the makers of Hydro huts thousands of dollars in recalls in past years. I believe Hydro hut no longer uses this material but I'm a "better safe than sorry" type guy, unfortunately i will never use they're products for just that reason.
In short, for all of you planning on using PVC in some capacity, make sure you are getting the right stuff, the wrong stuff in this case can be the loss of your crop or at best a very diminished harvest.
ak.fortyseven
Well-Known Member
Did a nice job there, so it was the "bad" pvc?
profgrow
Active Member
Great screen luv2grow, you really got something great there!
Lets talk about identifying good PVC vs bad PVC:
Most PVC pipes have a reference code on the side, if it is complete you can use it to look up manufacturer information and often times get they're chemical makeup. This is a hassle to say the least.
A considerably more easy way to figure out how much chlorine will "leech" from the pipes is bend them, if they are fairly rigid they will not release they're chlorine easily, if they are malleable and wobble around like a noodle they are probably poor quality and will leech more quickly. Another easy way to find out if your pipes are leeching chlorine is to run water through them for a couple hours (a cheap water pump is ideal for this) then test the reservoir with a chlorine kit from the local pool store.
In the long run this may be overkill, if your plants noticeably react to the PVC before they are set too deep in the screen just remove them and either find a replacement or skip the screen for this cycle while you research other methods.
Lets talk about identifying good PVC vs bad PVC:
Most PVC pipes have a reference code on the side, if it is complete you can use it to look up manufacturer information and often times get they're chemical makeup. This is a hassle to say the least.
A considerably more easy way to figure out how much chlorine will "leech" from the pipes is bend them, if they are fairly rigid they will not release they're chlorine easily, if they are malleable and wobble around like a noodle they are probably poor quality and will leech more quickly. Another easy way to find out if your pipes are leeching chlorine is to run water through them for a couple hours (a cheap water pump is ideal for this) then test the reservoir with a chlorine kit from the local pool store.
In the long run this may be overkill, if your plants noticeably react to the PVC before they are set too deep in the screen just remove them and either find a replacement or skip the screen for this cycle while you research other methods.
ak.fortyseven
Well-Known Member
Since you say light makes the chlorine release. could one cover the pipe? Aluminum or duct tape?
profgrow
Active Member
It's more heat that does it, if you can keep the canopy cool during veg and early flower it most likely won't be an issue, i have seen many screens made this way with no probs. I just like to make sure the info about PVC is out there in case someone does have an issue they will know what the story is.
profgrow
Active Member
Speaking of PVC, I want to bring some attn. to Stinkbuddy's thread.
A PVC aeroponic system can really cut time off of vegging and, in my opinion, can be a very good addition to a scrog growers garden.
Here is his thread with a breakdown of his system. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/116859-harvest-pound-every-three-weeks.html
Here is a mock up I made of a smaller system using his engineering method just scaled down a bit.
This style Aeroponic can also pipe the water in and out of the grow room enabling water temps to be better controlled and reservoir to be more accessible if for some reason ppm/ph spikes/dips at night, the pipes are gasket-ed into the side of the 4"x4" PVC fence post and another piece of fencepost catches the drainage to return it to the res.
A PVC aeroponic system can really cut time off of vegging and, in my opinion, can be a very good addition to a scrog growers garden.
Here is his thread with a breakdown of his system. https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/116859-harvest-pound-every-three-weeks.html
Here is a mock up I made of a smaller system using his engineering method just scaled down a bit.
This style Aeroponic can also pipe the water in and out of the grow room enabling water temps to be better controlled and reservoir to be more accessible if for some reason ppm/ph spikes/dips at night, the pipes are gasket-ed into the side of the 4"x4" PVC fence post and another piece of fencepost catches the drainage to return it to the res.
luv2grow
Well-Known Member
its rigid pipe so ill give it a go. My temps dont get above 85 ever at canopy level. I ran that aero/nft/dwc system for awhile works great. im going to go with hempy 5 gal buckets this time around. I'll use gravity feed tubes to water. I'll post some more pics when i get more of the room done.
And thanks again for the "good" info. Its rare on these sites... usually.
And thanks again for the "good" info. Its rare on these sites... usually.
ak.fortyseven
Well-Known Member
kinda like when the docs at a hospital give you the worse possible outcome?
profgrow
Active Member
Like I said before, I'm sure its a non-issue, I'm a scaredy cat/pessimist so i take every precaution.
In my situation to stay legal I must only flower 2 plants at a time. I need those 2 plants to produce 9+ oz every 3 months at the very least. My patient relies on me to keep her medicine coming in, so, anything that could harm my very small crop I see as a very dangerous proposition.
Based on that, you can understand my wariness toward anything that might be an issue. Don't let my fears effect your grows!
With that said, Lets talk DWC:
I'm currently using A "Waterfarm" to veg up some cute little Violator kush plants. So far they are reacting to 1600 ppm a bit badly, they aren't that small but getting a bit of tip burn so i dialed it back to 1k, we'll see what happens.
Anyone grown this strain? I haven't seen it done as a scrog yet and the only info i have gathered is that it doesn't stretch that much when flipped to 12/12, this is a pretty standard "Kush" trait.
Any info on this would be great, kush scroggers are welcome to chime in.
profgrow
Active Member
That seems to be the consensus, Kush are very potent and very fragile. Based on the info i have gathered, it almost seems breeders go "hey, this strain is super sensitive, lets call it a kush!" Obviously this is not the case but dang, every board i have read on kush nutes says "be careful".
I had a feeling as other indicas i have grown before were pretty happy with 2000 ppm or less, was just kinda hoping that was not the case. When I was researching the strain There was very little info about it, now almost a year later things seem to be popping up here and there but this isn't one of those "AK style" strains where people have a billion blogs and vids and pics of they're mom smoking it and shit, i have found about 5 grow journals, most were first timers and none of them really showed me what the plant could do, ppl were growing it 6 inches then flowering it and getting a 12in bush of little colas.
I decided to grow Vk because of its genes, Malana and Hindu kush are both incredibly potent strains, Malana being taller and Hindu adding an amazing punch. Based on that I assumed it would be an excellent scrog plant but seeing no serious growers taking it on I am starting to think its may be one or all three of these things: Temper-mental, inconsistent and low yield. Barney's Farm claims none of these are true but i guess we will see in the coming weeks/months.
So, I have been converted, at least for now, to using Tiger Bloom. I have never been a fan of liquid nutes and have run most grows on nothing but; Open sesame, beasty bloomz and Cha ching, the Fox Farm dry nutes. I have added a bit of "Plant energy", an all purpose from my local hydro store but for the most part just dry nutes. Dry nutes have served me well but i am breaking in tradition by adding Tiger Bloom. I just heard to many good thing about how well it works, even in conjunction with my current formula, just cut my old measurements in half and filled it out with TB.
Here are some pics of my U shaped scrog again, 24 hrs after starting TB, nothing special and still over 2.5 months 'til harvest but looking to be a good start, to give an idea of dimensions, the tops are sticking out of the screen about a "thumbs size" or 2-3 inches (5-7 cm for our EU Friends).
I had a feeling as other indicas i have grown before were pretty happy with 2000 ppm or less, was just kinda hoping that was not the case. When I was researching the strain There was very little info about it, now almost a year later things seem to be popping up here and there but this isn't one of those "AK style" strains where people have a billion blogs and vids and pics of they're mom smoking it and shit, i have found about 5 grow journals, most were first timers and none of them really showed me what the plant could do, ppl were growing it 6 inches then flowering it and getting a 12in bush of little colas.
I decided to grow Vk because of its genes, Malana and Hindu kush are both incredibly potent strains, Malana being taller and Hindu adding an amazing punch. Based on that I assumed it would be an excellent scrog plant but seeing no serious growers taking it on I am starting to think its may be one or all three of these things: Temper-mental, inconsistent and low yield. Barney's Farm claims none of these are true but i guess we will see in the coming weeks/months.
So, I have been converted, at least for now, to using Tiger Bloom. I have never been a fan of liquid nutes and have run most grows on nothing but; Open sesame, beasty bloomz and Cha ching, the Fox Farm dry nutes. I have added a bit of "Plant energy", an all purpose from my local hydro store but for the most part just dry nutes. Dry nutes have served me well but i am breaking in tradition by adding Tiger Bloom. I just heard to many good thing about how well it works, even in conjunction with my current formula, just cut my old measurements in half and filled it out with TB.
Here are some pics of my U shaped scrog again, 24 hrs after starting TB, nothing special and still over 2.5 months 'til harvest but looking to be a good start, to give an idea of dimensions, the tops are sticking out of the screen about a "thumbs size" or 2-3 inches (5-7 cm for our EU Friends).
profgrow
Active Member
Oh ya, here's a bit of info for ya.
This morning i got up to setup my nutes and feed the "ladies". Like many, I use gallon jugs to feed my babies, mixing the nutes and PHing in the kitchen. I cover the top of the jug with my hand when i shake it then place my ph meter in to get a fresh reading. The water comes out of my faucet around 8.2-8.5 any given day so i add nutes, this often brings it up another.5-1 PH. I add PH down and shake again to see how much more i need to add (I try to go down slowly because, to me, PH up takes way longer to get right). Any other morning i would be in the 7s and add a bit more but this morning was different. After I added PH down and shook it (hand over the cover, very important) i took a reading- 9.5 "wtf" I add some more down- 10.5 "omgwtf!". I went through 4 gallons like this (yes i know, it was early, i was tired nuff said) every time i shook it after PHing it went up. finally i figured it out, last night i put on some cologne for my lady, I had put it on my hands and rubbed them together. Note, I had washed my hands before starting my nute mixing so I figured no probs, ya, probs. I tell this story, embarrassing myself, in hopes that nobody will be as "burnout" as I was, wash your hands several times if they are going to come in contact with your res or feeders. I can only imagine someone putting they're hand in the res, not thinking and end up with nutrient locked plants. This is something I'm very glad i learned now before i start NFT!
This morning i got up to setup my nutes and feed the "ladies". Like many, I use gallon jugs to feed my babies, mixing the nutes and PHing in the kitchen. I cover the top of the jug with my hand when i shake it then place my ph meter in to get a fresh reading. The water comes out of my faucet around 8.2-8.5 any given day so i add nutes, this often brings it up another.5-1 PH. I add PH down and shake again to see how much more i need to add (I try to go down slowly because, to me, PH up takes way longer to get right). Any other morning i would be in the 7s and add a bit more but this morning was different. After I added PH down and shook it (hand over the cover, very important) i took a reading- 9.5 "wtf" I add some more down- 10.5 "omgwtf!". I went through 4 gallons like this (yes i know, it was early, i was tired nuff said) every time i shook it after PHing it went up. finally i figured it out, last night i put on some cologne for my lady, I had put it on my hands and rubbed them together. Note, I had washed my hands before starting my nute mixing so I figured no probs, ya, probs. I tell this story, embarrassing myself, in hopes that nobody will be as "burnout" as I was, wash your hands several times if they are going to come in contact with your res or feeders. I can only imagine someone putting they're hand in the res, not thinking and end up with nutrient locked plants. This is something I'm very glad i learned now before i start NFT!
andthatisright
Well-Known Member
Thats some interesting stuff alright at least u realised wha happened, i know boys that it take years too... id say the same idea would or could happen for strong back ache cream to