LED Vs HD Lighting

I have been thinking about investing in a LED to either compliment my 250w HPS or even replace it in my Tent.
My tent is 80cm X 80cm x 160cm and i currently have my 250w HPS in there.

I am looking to improve my Yield in this tent.. last run i did 5 Large plants in there with only the 250w and i was Happy with the results (see my sig for the last grow) but as ever we strive for more.

It is difficult to make a choice in the big wide market of LEDs out there and i would like to see some comparison pictures between LED Vs HD Lighting. I have seen some pictures here and there but the sources may not be so solid. I know there has been a lot of hype since LEDs started getting more scientifically involved with Horticulture and tweaking things to make Lumen Outputs and Colour Spectrums 'optimal' but still i am unsure of 'what equates what' in terms of Lumen outputs = < Bud Yields.

After examination of my tent size and growth canopy etc i figured i could use some more Lumens in there for a better Yield, i have been looking at LEDs ranging from the 90w UFO, which i think will not be strong enough output for my requirements.
What i really would like to do is double the 250w HPS i have in there either by adding another light and 'running 2' or replacing the 250w altogether with an LED that would be equivelent of approx 2 x 250w HD

So, i would like to hear from you LED experienced growers with your knowledge of what LEDs are equivelnt to.
I was looking at a 300w LED and they were claiming that it was equivelent to 600w HD is this true?

I have also been interested in the 120w LED panels for around £130 but i am unsure as to their capabilities? they are said to be the equivelent of a 250w HD lamp?

I was just going to put my 400w HPS in the tent instead of the 250w but i really like the idea of having less Electricity bieng used through a LED so hopefully you guys can help steer me in the right direction??

I will continue to search through the endless discussions of LED Vs HD but PLEASE post with any info and pics of LEDs for Comparison.

Your experience and info is required, thabnk you in advance..
Time for another smoke

It's all about the par meter for LED's. Only a couple companies actually have numbers that compete with hps. Good LED's are expensive, the cheap ones just aren't worth it. If you want to spend the money go Apache Tech AT120.

Check out this side by side grow...
[video=youtube;fSlVMC1Jvec]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlVMC1Jvec[/video]

from PERSONAL comparison, led's produce better bud. cons, the yield was lower (not anything too significant) and it took a little longer to finish. leds have evolved alot, i love them.

Ok so i just managed to bag myself a 144 * 3w LED Lamp on Ebay for a good price in my opinion

They say this lamp is comparible to 600w HID so i guess i have went higher than i thought so instead of supplementing the tent with another lamp i will be using just this one once i receive it.

I will post more about LEDs later as i have many questions lol.. thanks for the input so far peeps, lets get some more pics of camparisons up here in the mean time

L33tGanjaMan said:

Ok so i just managed to bag myself a 144 * 3w LED Lamp on Ebay for a good price in my opinion

They say this lamp is comparible to 600w HID so i guess i have went higher than i thought so instead of supplementing the tent with another lamp i will be using just this one once i receive it.

I will post more about LEDs later as i have many questions lol.. thanks for the input so far peeps, lets get some more pics of camparisons up here in the mean time

Click to expand...

I'm frightened for you already saying you got a deal off of ebay, care to link the actual item?

Some leds are just a gimic. If you bought a cheap one I hope, for the love of Sagan, that you plan on supplementing with white light. A lot of companies have only 1 or 2 nm specific diodes running, like a 440/630 lamp. If you did by a red blue only you will notice that it does EXTREMELY well with the HID. It will up the Photosynthetically Active Radiation that someone mentioned earlier.

Though red and blue are what chlorophyll needs to create sugars from CO2 and O2 exchange. Remember that this will just create sugar for the plant to use, not the hormones essential to regulating growth properly. One third of all the light available to an outdoor plant is in the mid band range, it is important for stimulating secondary photo-chemicals that are constantly present; carotene, xanthophyll, etc

I bought into Spectras, the light works for me only because I know its main flaw, the light arrangement BLOWS. He clustered the reds together, and then made an X out of the blue and white diodes. This has led to extreme light confusion in my plants, so I added warm white leds, and warm white flouros where necessary as they aren't as expensive as the white leds I bought and I needed them at that moment.

When on the phone with me he was constantly referring to them as "greenhouse supplementation". They would work amazingly for this, and it only took me 3 runs to realize that growing under this light wasn't feasible. Don't let this happen to you! Run them in combination with your white light!

Hope this helps,
ILovePlants

While I've never used HPS, I cannot recommend one 150-200w panel to replace a 250w HPS. One of these panels is really only good for 2 plants. I have a Pro-Gro 180 and it barely covers two plants at a time imho.

IlovePlants said:

Some leds are just a gimic. If you bought a cheap one I hope, for the love of Sagan, that you plan on supplementing with white light. A lot of companies have only 1 or 2 nm specific diodes running, like a 440/630 lamp. If you did by a red blue only you will notice that it does EXTREMELY well with the HID. It will up the Photosynthetically Active Radiation that someone mentioned earlier.

Though red and blue are what chlorophyll needs to create sugars from CO2 and O2 exchange. Remember that this will just create sugar for the plant to use, not the hormones essential to regulating growth properly. One third of all the light available to an outdoor plant is in the mid band range, it is important for stimulating secondary photo-chemicals that are constantly present; carotene, xanthophyll, etc

I bought into Spectras, the light works for me only because I know its main flaw, the light arrangement BLOWS. He clustered the reds together, and then made an X out of the blue and white diodes. This has led to extreme light confusion in my plants, so I added warm white leds, and warm white flouros where necessary as they aren't as expensive as the white leds I bought and I needed them at that moment.

When on the phone with me he was constantly referring to them as "greenhouse supplementation". They would work amazingly for this, and it only took me 3 runs to realize that growing under this light wasn't feasible. Don't let this happen to you! Run them in combination with your white light!

Hope this helps,
ILovePlants

Click to expand...

Though red and blue are what chlorophyll needs to create sugars from CO2 and O2 exchange. Remember that this will just create sugar for the plant to use, not the hormones essential to regulating growth properly. One third of all the light available to an outdoor plant is in the mid band range, it is important for stimulating secondary photo-chemicals that are constantly present; carotene, xanthophyll, etc

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on the secondary photochemical reactions?

I bought into Spectras, the light works for me only because I know its main flaw, the light arrangement BLOWS. He clustered the reds together, and then made an X out of the blue and white diodes. This has led to extreme light confusion in my plants, so I added warm white leds, and warm white flouros where necessary as they aren't as expensive as the white leds I bought and I needed them at that moment.

Click to expand...

I think that we are on the same page,
but IMHO even if the blue and red were evenly distributed there would be many crossing lines/cones presented to the plant at the intersections of where the blue and red light meet.
I believe that this would still cause the confusion.

Do you have a theory on why this confuses the plant?

Thanks in advance

Well, now that you all have me Terrified i'm going to roll another Spliff and then cry myself to sleep! LOL

Seriously though my Light is supposed to be delivered tomorrow so i will log back on here when it does and let you guys know what kind it is for sure.. it could be a 7 band but tbh i cannot remember right now and i am tired.

I hope i did not waste my money :/

One thing though, i saw the exact same lamp i bought sell for £90 more a few days prior! :O

I think that this explains a lot.View attachment 2363451
Plants have been growing with round light for a long time, literally almost forever, and they aren't prepared to give this process up entirely. Although it is explained in this diagram that all things eventually go to chlorophyll a at 680, I personally have found that it simply isn't the whole story. If plants grew perfectly under only 2 spectrums we would know by now. I don't think that they wont grow, I just feel that a rounded diet is essential in healthy living. This may not be the case, as it may be all about what ratios of red to blue that we need. PSUAGRO grew buds under only red and blue diodes. If what I was saying was 100% accurate I don't think that he would have grown anything but leaves. Buds grew none the less, I'm just not sure that they were what he expected. Expectations V.S. reality was all that I was getting at. I think that in time we will develop plants that have an increased tolerance, and hopefully increased ability, towards red and blue light. Personally I think it will take breeding the plants into this environment.

In saying that the "X" led to light confusion, I was talking about how one part of the plant receives primarily red light while the other part was getting primarily blue light. Having one leaf divided as such may not cause any problems, but my plants hated it. All I was trying to get at was make sure that they have evenly spread diodes, or you can expect them to confuse your plants.

Sincerely,
ILovePlants

Well, my light was not delivered yesterday and so it should arrive tomorrow, i went back onto Ebay and had another look and yes it appears to be a 7band Colour Spectrum LED with 144 x 3w diodes.

heres a link, let me know what you good people think about this Light..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330796168209?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Also, Iloveplants, what do you actually mean when you say that your plants Hated that lamp with the 'X' Red diodes?

Very simply please, which LED light (wattage, make and model) would be best to cover 36-40 sq. ft. of flowering canopy? I am looking for the best quality, it is expensive to be cheap. Is it worth it to go fully LED as far as cost/output and electricity bill differences, etc? I have a 1000 watt hps that i loved but i am trying to be more cost effective and ecologically friendly. I do not want to sacrifice results, mainly quality. Please provide me with some feedback and options.

Thank you

do you use the 1000W in that 6x6 at the moment? Do you have plants around the edge? I thought 1000W was good for about 4x4 area... if you are looking to replace your 1000W in that same space you would have to go about 6-700 true watts with LEDs imo. But a space this big, if the canopy covers the whole area you would want more like 1500-2000 watts. Give more infos on your expectation and dimension of your room.

i was using the 1000 watt in a 4x4 room. i want to use the 4x4 as a veg room and buy a 6x6 for flowering. i was just curious about what is equal to 1000 watt hps as far as led is concerned for my own reference. i really want to decide whether to stick with the 1000 watt hps and then supplement the rest of light demand in the 6x6 with led or cfl or go with all led if electricity cost will drop significantly without sacrificing quality/results. more than likely the entire 6x6 will not be covered with plant matter, room to move inside the tent is necessary. thanks.

I now have my new LED panel in my tent instead of my 240w HPS, i am currently trying to get the temps set correct with this new panel, seems it runs a little hotter than i thought it would do, especially now i have lowered it closer to the 'canopy' the temps in there at the minute are ranging between 74 and 82.
I am tweaking things and by adding One 6" fan to circulate air inside the tent and also last night i run it with my 4" intake fan and the temps were sitting nicely at 78, the ambient temp outside the tent has been around 66-68 so it seems that is pretty much regulated.
However i am concerned that i have 'NO exhaust' with that set up. Do i need to exhaust the air in there when i am running the intake and also circulating the air inside?
(The 4" intake actually puffs the tent up. lol.)

Now that i have this LED setup i am still sceptical as to what the results will be compared to my 250w HPS. Since i have 12 Clones in there at the minute in SoG style i am thinking the only way i am going to get True results may be to take 3 or 6 out and put them in my other Closet with the 250HPS and run a side by side grow, that way i guess i would definately have TRUE results from both to compare.. the setback is that it will cost me double in electricity and that sucks because the whole reason i wanted to change to LED was to try and save electricity.
That said it is also useful to note that the LED panel i have (the one in the above post) actually in comparison to the 250w HPS the electricity usage from them both over a 24hr period is almost identical! :O
This i am hoping is because the LED panel output is in actual fact comparible to a 400-600w HD Lamp, in that equasion there would be the 'reported' 50-60% saving.
Maybe i am being over sceptical towards my new LED panel and i should just let it finish my full run, i am just worried that i may be sacraficing quality or Yield and i guess the only way to find out would be to run them side by side, otherwise i will always be wondering if i could have done better or i won't in actual fact know how much better it has been if i don't have a comparison. Problem is i can compare bigger plants i have done in the past with the 250w HPS but this run is my first time trying out a SoG style grow to keep plants shorter and fill out the canopy(see link on my Sig).

Anyone have any suggestion or input on this for me please.. my head hurts. LOL

you need fresh air at all time, the 4'' fan as to blow the air from inside out, backpressure will occur and it will do just the opposite of puffing. If you dont have fresh air coming in at all time you will not get optimal growth, you will get too high temps, and most likely mold.

Hmmmnnnn.. in that case you are saying i can reverse my intake to an outtake/exhaust with the 4" and i will have the air axhausted and slight amount will be replenished through any passive air flow?

I am worried about that suggestion and the reason why is my last run i only had the 4" for exhaust and no intake and i ended up with bud mold on my Fat Colas and i lost a lot of yield because of it! :/

more input and suggestions please..

the room/tent must be sealed, the problem with tent is they have vent holes everywhere and even on my tent I had to cover a few holes at the top. If you were exhausting the air at the top and the easiest route for the air to come back in was at the top as well, the air at the bottom wasnt getting exchanged, that would be my guess. I have 4'' holes at the top of my tent, one is blocked with a towel and the other has the fan. I actually blocked the vents at the bottom of the tent and the intake hole at the bottom is hooked with my drying cabinet, so the air from my drying cabinet is being sucked in my tent through negative pressure and there is no smell in the house when I dry my buds because in the end the air is being exhausted by my inline fan and scrubber at the top of my tent. anyway sorry it's all over the place, hope it makes sense.

Negative pressure with only one exhaust fan will work a lot better in a sealed room as opposed to a tent, but like I said I am doing it in my tent as well. Keep a thermometer at canopy level and make sure RH is always around 45 you shouldnt get mold.

Also, what is the RH (relative humidity) of the room that your tent is in!!? if your tent is in a tiny room, you got to keep that door open, or make sure that the RH is below 50 because it doesnt matter how much air flow you got, if the fresh air is too wet, you will get mold.

and were you running your fan 24-7 or you would stop the inline fan when the light went off? if you did this, it means you always had high humidity spikes at night and it doesnt matter how dry it is when the lights are on, if you keep flirting with 70+RH at night that will do it too.



EDIT: when you got mold, were you exhausting the air at the top or at the bottom? you really got to get your environment dialled in, it's the most important factor to a successful grow, more important than medium, nutes and lighting.

sounds like LED is neither more energy efficient nor cooler than an HPS putting out the same amount of Lumens. whats the benefit to switching then? and can someone answer my question i posted earlier?

A properly designed led panel, with quality components, will run cooler and be more efficient than hps. I would substitute anywhere from 500-800 actual watts of led to replace a 1000w hps depending on which ones i went with. For me, efficiency is the most important aspect of led growing, followed by reduced heat and ability to target spectrums. Hope that helps answer your question.