Renfro
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Start with one light if thats the budget and cover more area with more lights later.
Plan and build for the expansion so you don't have to replace items with larger ones later.
Led or HPS HELP!!!
- Thread starter .Smoke
- Start date
Plan and build for the expansion so you don't have to replace items with larger ones later.
.Smoke
Well-Known Member
Would like to have a pound per harvest so...6-10 plants probably.
Exhaust and circulation are taken care of.
Room is just a vapor barrier area I created. Actual room is 20x60. All climate controlled. No extra AC needed. Can make room as large or small as needed.
Just trying to grow enough to keep me and the lady in the green. So need at least 2oz a month average over grow time.
If you more experienced peeps had this room, what would you use?
No it really can't
I would stretch the budget a little an get 2 315cmh put them over a 4x6 tray you should get close to 2lb on a really good grow if it doesn't go so well you should still get the lb you need. For led you would probably want like 400-500w that's going to be at least $400 if you diy a fixture. If you want to buy a complete fixture more like $600-800
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I would probably divide that 10x13' space up into flower and veg rooms.
In the flower room you want most of the climate controls and some extra room to move around in and be able to have a decent sized oscillating fan to keep the air moving well. In the veg space a small fan and some T-5 lights can do the job.
I hope you have some gear already because $200 ain't gonna cut it if you want decent results. Cheap inline fan, $75 for a 6" and if you go with a 1000W HPS a 6" is about the minimum. If you want odor control then you're looking at least $100 for a carbon filter then about a $1/ft just for flex tubing to run the exhaust. $50 or more for a temp/RH controller for the exhaust or at least a speed controller if the exhaust runs steady.
Medium, pots, nutes and all the bits and pieces can easily eat up another $200+. I've dropped close to 3G on grow gear in the last 3 years and I've been growing here for almost 20 years. Champagne taste on a beer budget is what dear old mom always says.
Almost $1000 on just a Light Rail, CO2 controller and trimmer which is not required to do a grow tho. $180 just for a good carbon filter that I got almost 3 years ago and is still sitting in the box. I'm going to need it this grow tho as I have some stinky plants this run for sure.
Maybe aim smaller and start one or two plants every month so you harvest one or two every month after the first crop. Should be easy enough to get 3 - 4 oz/mth on a regular basis and with all the money you save not buying pot you can gradually upgrade your grow.
Maybe find some inspiration in some of these.
I found a great spot to download FREE POT BOOKS . I downloaded a grow bible first and got lots more. Books look great and complete like the real ones I have here. No web site but just a page of links. Just right click on what you want and then "Save Link As" to download so they don't open first as many are 50+ megs. They got lots. Enjoy.
Renfro
Well-Known Member
A veg tent perhaps would be the budget way to do that.
.Smoke
Well-Known Member
Thank you. Great advice.
I have heat and humidity covered. I was a plumber so have extras laying around to help with the venting.
I am looking for that 3-4 oz a month harvest. Just wondering what kind and how big of a light I would need to produce what you're suggesting?
I have heat and humidity covered. I was a plumber so have extras laying around to help with the venting.
I am looking for that 3-4 oz a month harvest. Just wondering what kind and how big of a light I would need to produce what you're suggesting?
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Tents are expensive. I'll just frame up two walls to add to my grow room and if it cost me $200 I'd be surprised.
I've already roughed out the plans and will have an extra 6x8.5' room with 4x8.5 as grow space. Couple feet to give me elbow room. Got everything I need already except 4 -5 sheets of 3/8" OSB. Gets cold in my basement in the winter so opening a tent door to work on the plants with 40F air rushing in could be a problem. Built a room like it that was 12x5' in the garage when we lived in town and it could be -30C in the garage. The wall plugs being on outside walls would get all frosty so took the plates off then taped plastic over the plugs, put the plates back on and pushed the plugs right thru the plastic to get a good seal. Worked great. Pumping the room air into the attic all winter . . . not so great.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Two plants decently grown could give you 4oz easy but might want four early on and start flowering when still quite small. Read up about mainlining and other training techniques to keep plants compact and shorter but still get big colas. Could do something like that with a good 600W HPS light. I'd get a switchable ballast that can do 400-600-1000W and a bulb for each wattage so you can use what light you need and go higher if you need more. T-5s and maybe some LED strips can easily handle the veg end of things.
Or get into LEDs for flowering. See a lot of nice plants being grown with some of the newer LED tech like COBs. I have all HID lights for the main growing and an assortment of fluoros etc for veg needs. Looking to get a couple of 600W to fill that gap between the 400s and the 1000W ones.
I do not recommend those cheapo lighting packages you can grab online. Okay if you're not sure what you're doing and might give up after a couple failed grows. Then you're not into it for a lot of cash. You sound like you have a clue and want to keep the larder topped up so getting decent gear makes sense.
I got a Light Rail and love it to death. Can get up to 100% more coverage out of the same light and it only uses 9W. Cost me $275CAN but I figure it's paid for itself in power savings as I'm paying 25¢/kwh here.
hybridway2
Amare Shill
Get x2 used HPS , 600W , vented.
I recommend x1, 600w hps/ plant to start. Once u can hit a pound a plant, then move onto led with the $ you'll have then.
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Greensea
Well-Known Member
If u can push little more than 200$
GO with DiY Bridgelux EB gen2 strips...
They are cheap as hell this days.
https://www.digikey.si/product-detail/en/BXEB-L1120Z-35E4000-C-B3/976-1732-ND/7907661/?itemSeq=297820287
GO with 12 of them and one 480W driver
https://www.digikey.si/product-detail/en/mean-well-usa-inc/HLG-480H-24/1866-2538-ND/7704106
Driver=137$
Strips=100$
+ little more (depend on how u creative) for other material...fxture,cables,wagos...
GO with DiY Bridgelux EB gen2 strips...
They are cheap as hell this days.
https://www.digikey.si/product-detail/en/BXEB-L1120Z-35E4000-C-B3/976-1732-ND/7907661/?itemSeq=297820287
GO with 12 of them and one 480W driver
https://www.digikey.si/product-detail/en/mean-well-usa-inc/HLG-480H-24/1866-2538-ND/7704106
Driver=137$
Strips=100$
+ little more (depend on how u creative) for other material...fxture,cables,wagos...
Norml56
Well-Known Member
If you are looking at going the HID route I would 100% go with 2 315watt CMH. Bulbs last up to 18months before needing replaced where a HPS will need replaced at least every 4months for optimal growth. They provide a far better spectrum than HPS and create a lot less heat. 600watt HPS bulbs are expensive to replace if you are buying a name brand bulb. 60-70$
.Smoke
Well-Known Member
Thanks!
I did decide to go with CMH.
Ordering a Hydro Crunch with a Phillips 3100k bulb.
Only one for the time being, but plan is to eventually run 3.
Norml56
Well-Known Member
Nice! I'm just now swapping out the 3100k bulb for a 4200k. I run 2700k QB boards alongside the CMH so thought i'd try adding more blue to the flowering tent.
hybridway2
Amare Shill
Try one every 3-4 grows man.= Used to think every 2 then realized what a waste when my yeilds were just as good.
Norml56
Well-Known Member
So really the CMH is probably good for 30ish months or 15 harvests
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I still use a 400W Hortilux conversion bulb that gives me MH light off an HPS ballast. Going on 18 years of at least 6 months/year 18hr/day use and still does veg growth fine. The light tube is near black when cold and there's a big blister on it but it still reads higher on light intensity than a near new 400W PlantMax MH bulb I have and the plants grow better under the old one.
Total bullshit that HID lights need replacing as often as bro-science dictates. Sure after 10 grows or so you're down 10 - 20% but most people are using them when a 250W or less would do the job so you're not losing a thing.
I also have a 400W Philips CMH bulb that runs off my old HPS magnetic ballasts and blows away the old Hort and the spectrum is way better to boot. They don't make those anymore but GE makes one just like it so I'm aiming to get a few of those when I need new 400W bulbs. Supposed to do veg and flower just fine and looking at the spectral diagram I have no doubts.
HID for the win!
That huge bulb in the middle is what I'm using now to flower 12 plants. The size of a football and barely fits in my reflector. lol Has the highest intensity of any other 1000W bulb I have by 50% and a great spectrum. I only use it during the stretch while also running my temps up to 90F and adding CO2 as that's when pot plants eat more than any other time and can benefit the most from high intensity inputs. After the stretch I plan to switch to one of the inferior Light EnerG 1000W that have 50% less output tho their spectral graph is near identical to a regular Hortilux SHPS.
Backup bulbs.
Another issue about HID magnetic ballasts being so much more costly to run than their digital versions is patently false. A 400W digital still uses 400W to keep the bulb going but supposedly uses less to heat loss. I've read reports that older mag ballasts use up to 20% extra power but I bought a Watt meter to see just how much power all my devices use and it's really nothing.
This is what I got checking the circuit that had 2x - 400W HPS and a 150W HPS on it. All older magnetic ballasts. 950W is the collective rating. 12W over that is what I got on the meter. Hardly worth spending a couple of grand to update my mags to digital. I have never blown a bulb in almost 20 years of using my old mags either where the early versions of of digital ballasts blew bulbs all the time due to their high frequency outputs to the bulbs. It's only recently that bulb manufacturers have tuned bulbs that actually work with digital better and all of those work fine with magnetics.
This is one of two HPS ballasts I still use today and the same age MH. None of them has ever needed repair but a newer 1000W MH/HPS mag ballast I got a couple years ago needed a new capacitor. $50 later it works just fine and is powering the light I'm using now. What usually happens when a digital ballast quits on you? It becomes a door-stop. lol
400W HPS
400W MH
I've upgraded a bit with the MH/HPS ballast. Got it used for $70 and just put a new capacitor in it so it can run HPS bulbs. If an HPS mag ballast won't fire an HPS bulb but will run an MH bulb then the ignitor is gone as MH doesn't use an ignitor but the capacitor and core are the same. The MH/HPS mag ballast like mine just has a switch to cut the ignitor out of the circuit.
The 940W conversion bulb I have has an ignitor built into the bulb and fires off a 1000W MH ballast. That's why they cost more.
My older 1000W MH only that I just put a new capacitor in too but still won't work. Testing the coil indicates it may be shot so I'm hoping a coil is cheap or I'll toss it. That bulb is working fine off the newer ballast.
Total bullshit that HID lights need replacing as often as bro-science dictates. Sure after 10 grows or so you're down 10 - 20% but most people are using them when a 250W or less would do the job so you're not losing a thing.
I also have a 400W Philips CMH bulb that runs off my old HPS magnetic ballasts and blows away the old Hort and the spectrum is way better to boot. They don't make those anymore but GE makes one just like it so I'm aiming to get a few of those when I need new 400W bulbs. Supposed to do veg and flower just fine and looking at the spectral diagram I have no doubts.
HID for the win!
That huge bulb in the middle is what I'm using now to flower 12 plants. The size of a football and barely fits in my reflector. lol Has the highest intensity of any other 1000W bulb I have by 50% and a great spectrum. I only use it during the stretch while also running my temps up to 90F and adding CO2 as that's when pot plants eat more than any other time and can benefit the most from high intensity inputs. After the stretch I plan to switch to one of the inferior Light EnerG 1000W that have 50% less output tho their spectral graph is near identical to a regular Hortilux SHPS.
Backup bulbs.
Another issue about HID magnetic ballasts being so much more costly to run than their digital versions is patently false. A 400W digital still uses 400W to keep the bulb going but supposedly uses less to heat loss. I've read reports that older mag ballasts use up to 20% extra power but I bought a Watt meter to see just how much power all my devices use and it's really nothing.
This is what I got checking the circuit that had 2x - 400W HPS and a 150W HPS on it. All older magnetic ballasts. 950W is the collective rating. 12W over that is what I got on the meter. Hardly worth spending a couple of grand to update my mags to digital. I have never blown a bulb in almost 20 years of using my old mags either where the early versions of of digital ballasts blew bulbs all the time due to their high frequency outputs to the bulbs. It's only recently that bulb manufacturers have tuned bulbs that actually work with digital better and all of those work fine with magnetics.
This is one of two HPS ballasts I still use today and the same age MH. None of them has ever needed repair but a newer 1000W MH/HPS mag ballast I got a couple years ago needed a new capacitor. $50 later it works just fine and is powering the light I'm using now. What usually happens when a digital ballast quits on you? It becomes a door-stop. lol
400W HPS
400W MH
I've upgraded a bit with the MH/HPS ballast. Got it used for $70 and just put a new capacitor in it so it can run HPS bulbs. If an HPS mag ballast won't fire an HPS bulb but will run an MH bulb then the ignitor is gone as MH doesn't use an ignitor but the capacitor and core are the same. The MH/HPS mag ballast like mine just has a switch to cut the ignitor out of the circuit.
The 940W conversion bulb I have has an ignitor built into the bulb and fires off a 1000W MH ballast. That's why they cost more.
My older 1000W MH only that I just put a new capacitor in too but still won't work. Testing the coil indicates it may be shot so I'm hoping a coil is cheap or I'll toss it. That bulb is working fine off the newer ballast.
Big Perm
Well-Known Member
I would get as many of the cheapest 600w HID's you can afford and light that room up. Go cheap like Vivosun or something. Get some grows under your belt, learn what you are doing, THEN get your wallet out for LED. Good thing is the prices keep coming down as time goes on.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
As they are rated for 20,000 hours that pretty much says they are done after five flower runs.
12hrs/day x 63days = 3969hrs.
20,000hrs/3969hrs = 5 flower runs.
Arguments may be made that the light output degrades so badly after half the hours that the bulb needs replacement but I say BS.
When you're not growing tons of pot as a business the losses you may have from using older bulbs is not worth worrying about. My Chevy gets me from point A to B just as fast as a Cadillac but not as comfortably.
A quality bulb like Hortilux pays off in longevity and superior light output and the EYE True Blue works like a CMH bulb and does all phases of growth well.
You do get what you pay for so research the best bulbs for your grow then hunt down the best prices.
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
I would just add that if your looking at some of the higher end Metal Halide lamps be sure to get a ballast that will actually fire them. Either a "known" digital or stick to mag ballast. Some of the cheap digitals have issues with lamps like the Hortilux Blue MH.As they are rated for 20,000 hours that pretty much says they are done after five flower runs.
12hrs/day x 63days = 3969hrs.
20,000hrs/3969hrs = 5 flower runs.
Arguments may be made that the light output degrades so badly after half the hours that the bulb needs replacement but I say BS.
When you're not growing tons of pot as a business the losses you may have from using older bulbs is not worth worrying about. My Chevy gets me from point A to B just as fast as a Cadillac but not as comfortably.
A quality bulb like Hortilux pays off in longevity and superior light output and the EYE True Blue works like a CMH bulb and does all phases of growth well.
You do get what you pay for so research the best bulbs for your grow then hunt down the best prices.
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I have no doubt. Those cheap light packages you can get online are just that, cheap and you do get what you pay for. Good digital ballasts should be dropping in price these days with all the good LED gear coming out and I might be interested in grabbing up a couple of 600s or at least multi-setting versions that would handle 600. I'm sure if I hunted around I could find good used Mag 600s for real cheap.
Now that growing is legal here in Canada there should be lots of lightly used gear for sale on sites like Kijiji etc from all the failed nOObs that ran out and bought gear only to find they don't have green thumbs. lol
Those real old mags I still use have never needed any replacement parts but all were made in the good old US of A about 40 years ago. No noise from any either. If someone has a noisy mag ballast it's the plates in the coil vibrating and that's easy to fix with some epoxy glue down the corners to keep the plates from shaking or better yet long redi-rods and nuts to clamp them down on the corners thru the holes already there.
Something I recently found out about while researching how to fix these things is that the capacitors can still make the light work when they weaken but at a reduced output. You can get multi-meters that have a capacitance setting for around $40 so I need one of those to check my older ones tho they have the metallic capacitors that last much longer than the oil-filled ones I just got to fix mine. A 400W HPS ballast needs a 55mf capacitor but the electric store in Grande Prairie sold me a 23mf a couple years ago and that was a ballast that died on me. Works fine now with the right capacitor.
Like old Harleys these things just need a rebuild once in a while to keep on truckin'!