Led lights?
- Thread starter crazytrain14
- Start date
GrowTech
stays relevant.
LOL trust me, I didn't have to do any digging. it was 30+ pages of crap. no offense but its true.
The real bottom line is LEDs are growing bud now. And there are a lot of reasons to use them. There are those like GrowTech who'll bitch and whine until LEDs grow the bud, harvest it and cure it for them, all for free...
-Loki
Then tell me how those pictures some how support your agruement of LED grows? I bet you can't do anything close to that with 25 watts of HPS... and try doing it completely inside a 18 gal tote...
-Loki
rolla8
Well-Known Member
I don't dispute that LEDs can be used to grow bud, but certainly not in a cost-effective way. I guess if you really want the latest technology and don't mind spending the money on it they are fine for hobbyists. But right now, for anyone serious about growing weed, they just don't make sense. As has been pointed out, a HID system that produces 200K+ lumens is only a fraction of the cost of a comparable LED system. For me, it comes down to cost/benefit. Why would I spend exponentially more money to produce consistantly high-quality buds?
GrowTech
stays relevant.
Quit asking me for my address you little nerd boy.
GrowTech
stays relevant.
My point is that you can grow a completely shitty looking plant, and still recommend this to others... what in the fuck are you thinking? I don't have to use a 25whps... I have 1000w systems.
anotherchance
New Member
not fare to the douche bags
natmoon
Well-Known Member
You'd get much better results with a couple of fluro tubes.
Its all about cost vs yield.
Trust me when i say that unless you spend a lot of money on the correct high powered leds with the correct wavelengths you will be unhappy with the results.
Leds are for super stealth grows and are very expensive,i don't say any of this to be argumentative i am just trying to tell you the truth.
GrowTech
stays relevant.
Natmoon really explained my position on the LED systems well... It's not about feasibility for me, but explaining the small ROI end users will get out of these systems due to their limited ability to produce.
If you have an LED system, and it is honesty meeting your production expectations- I would never dream of telling you to quit using it... However if you're new to all of this, and are looking for something that is "just going to work" -- then I have to advise against it as I know CFLs are a better option, not to mention HPS.
Like I said... if it's really working for you, why change it? I just don't entirely agree that right now technology is telling us that LEDs should be used for growing. A lot of people will disagree, but consider the fact that many of these people are probably resentful about their own purchase of an LED system, and things become much clearer.
If you have an LED system, and it is honesty meeting your production expectations- I would never dream of telling you to quit using it... However if you're new to all of this, and are looking for something that is "just going to work" -- then I have to advise against it as I know CFLs are a better option, not to mention HPS.
Like I said... if it's really working for you, why change it? I just don't entirely agree that right now technology is telling us that LEDs should be used for growing. A lot of people will disagree, but consider the fact that many of these people are probably resentful about their own purchase of an LED system, and things become much clearer.
Jonus
Well-Known Member
That wasnt my question though, feasibility aside...and you are talking to someone who uses LEDs to veg with. The expense side of things is no different to any product that is not mass produced, its expensive and I have outlayed the cost in order to test it out for myself. So far my results show me that they work fine as a vegging system giving excellent results as long as you dont go over 12" in height.
I use HPS for flowering because the LEDs just do not cut it at the moment to match either the CFLs let alone the HPS's.
Heres the 7 board layout:
and an affy under veg with it
The biggest prob with LEDs are the outragious claims being made on both sides of the debate, like I said earlier. Eventually LED technology will get to the point where it will challenge HiDs but its nowhere near that at the moment, but for the time being anyone needing to count watts can at least use LEDs in their right proportions for 'vegging' in and get results that are no different from CFLs and HIDs.
As I said earlier I estimate that it will take about 130-150 watts to match a 400 watt HIDs but the next light Im building will be 192 watts because Im building it to cover a specific area without any weak areas.
The new boards Im building are twice the MCD rating of the current one Im using so am expecting some better results. Ill start up a journal to show everyone how it goes in veg stage. Again I wont be using it to flower with because I know the results will not compare to the HIDs I am using.
I use HPS for flowering because the LEDs just do not cut it at the moment to match either the CFLs let alone the HPS's.
Heres the 7 board layout:
and an affy under veg with it
The biggest prob with LEDs are the outragious claims being made on both sides of the debate, like I said earlier. Eventually LED technology will get to the point where it will challenge HiDs but its nowhere near that at the moment, but for the time being anyone needing to count watts can at least use LEDs in their right proportions for 'vegging' in and get results that are no different from CFLs and HIDs.
As I said earlier I estimate that it will take about 130-150 watts to match a 400 watt HIDs but the next light Im building will be 192 watts because Im building it to cover a specific area without any weak areas.
The new boards Im building are twice the MCD rating of the current one Im using so am expecting some better results. Ill start up a journal to show everyone how it goes in veg stage. Again I wont be using it to flower with because I know the results will not compare to the HIDs I am using.
GrowTech
stays relevant.
Have you done a side by side comparison using LEDs vs CFLs? I would be interested in seeing how they compare... I think if they can do better than CFLs there may be a practical use for them in vegetative stages, but the pictures you show me above could (for all I know) be a plant vegged for 12 weeks under LEDs, whereas that type of growth can be expected from CFLs in a matter or 2-3 weeks.
Like I said, i'm not "bashing" LED setups for no good reason, if there is an affordable method to growing with LEDs while having the production (either in veg, or flower) to warrant the cost, then it is an undeniably good solution. I just have not personally seen results that warrant the cost at all...
Like I said, i'm not "bashing" LED setups for no good reason, if there is an affordable method to growing with LEDs while having the production (either in veg, or flower) to warrant the cost, then it is an undeniably good solution. I just have not personally seen results that warrant the cost at all...
Jonus
Well-Known Member
That one like all mine spend between 2-3 weeks under the LED. There is no point in them being under there any longer than that because essentially that is the limitation of the LED overhead light. After a foot of growth it starts to stretch up and the lower leaves stop receiving enough light.
I will need my new 192 watt light to cover 6 plants in 12 litre square containers comfortably. Keeping in mind the other claims found on various sites of 60 to 90 watt LEDs covering twice that area, yeah sure, if you're into stretchy nodeless plants. If those companies making those claims were to retail the light Ive made they'd be saying it would grow up to 50 plants using that same level of exaggeration.
My one test at flowering with the setup I currently have has not been anywhere near as good as flowering with CFLs let alone HPS's. Using a light meter its giving me about 4000 lumens per square foot when measuring it under the HID settings. Way off the clock if you switch the light meter to CFLs.
4000 lumens of 465nm blue and 670nm red is fine for vegging but nowhere near enough to meet the mimimum lumen per square foot for flowering.
Once i get this new light built Im hoping it will give me twice that output as Ive used the latest LEDs which are supposed to have twice the MCD ratings. But we will see...
I can understand the doubt out there about LEDs though, considering some of the crap grows Ive seen on youtube using 62 watts and the like, waste of time, even the math tells you the buds are going to be spindly.
Im into results.
I will need my new 192 watt light to cover 6 plants in 12 litre square containers comfortably. Keeping in mind the other claims found on various sites of 60 to 90 watt LEDs covering twice that area, yeah sure, if you're into stretchy nodeless plants. If those companies making those claims were to retail the light Ive made they'd be saying it would grow up to 50 plants using that same level of exaggeration.
My one test at flowering with the setup I currently have has not been anywhere near as good as flowering with CFLs let alone HPS's. Using a light meter its giving me about 4000 lumens per square foot when measuring it under the HID settings. Way off the clock if you switch the light meter to CFLs.
4000 lumens of 465nm blue and 670nm red is fine for vegging but nowhere near enough to meet the mimimum lumen per square foot for flowering.
Once i get this new light built Im hoping it will give me twice that output as Ive used the latest LEDs which are supposed to have twice the MCD ratings. But we will see...
I can understand the doubt out there about LEDs though, considering some of the crap grows Ive seen on youtube using 62 watts and the like, waste of time, even the math tells you the buds are going to be spindly.
Im into results.
supportorganics
Active Member
well i know that this is probably a poor conversation to state my oponion.
But i started outdoors and love out doors my personal oponion is that that is the best weed flavor aroma everything if nothing else your plants are monsters that alone is really cool.
However i moved to indoor after this and its hard to compete with making your own little enviroment for your babies. I have always used hps just a personal prefrence blah blah blah. However (just for fun) i am using leds im some what disappointed odviously, after leaving the power of 1000 watts, thankfully it is just a small grow in a spare room of twenty plants i am vegging them under 50 watt led panels from htgsupply.com and yes it is working ok rather slow compared to what i am use. and in my eyes it appears like all of the plants are switching in to flowering which i dont even know how to explain but the plants are definately changing from symmetrical growth. but who knows. I am slowly deciding that these will be flowered under hps. However i fell the best answer to all of this is that right now yes leds are very expensive and that is hard to fathom for some people right but i do feel here in 5-10 years technology will greatly greatly advance and leds might be a great new idea.
Just an opinion. also an unmentioned negative so far on leds. SO very very awesome is the no heat on small panels it is a bad thing. That moistture staying in your pots for so long as poor on roots and there is a greater amount of moisture relased into the air instead of sucked in to the plant so people talk like less fans are required but this is completely false... well unless you lover powder mildew than dont use any.... and it is interesting for a grower as my self to try and keep my room warm instead of cold
But i started outdoors and love out doors my personal oponion is that that is the best weed flavor aroma everything if nothing else your plants are monsters that alone is really cool.
However i moved to indoor after this and its hard to compete with making your own little enviroment for your babies. I have always used hps just a personal prefrence blah blah blah. However (just for fun) i am using leds im some what disappointed odviously, after leaving the power of 1000 watts, thankfully it is just a small grow in a spare room of twenty plants i am vegging them under 50 watt led panels from htgsupply.com and yes it is working ok rather slow compared to what i am use. and in my eyes it appears like all of the plants are switching in to flowering which i dont even know how to explain but the plants are definately changing from symmetrical growth. but who knows. I am slowly deciding that these will be flowered under hps. However i fell the best answer to all of this is that right now yes leds are very expensive and that is hard to fathom for some people right but i do feel here in 5-10 years technology will greatly greatly advance and leds might be a great new idea.
Just an opinion. also an unmentioned negative so far on leds. SO very very awesome is the no heat on small panels it is a bad thing. That moistture staying in your pots for so long as poor on roots and there is a greater amount of moisture relased into the air instead of sucked in to the plant so people talk like less fans are required but this is completely false... well unless you lover powder mildew than dont use any.... and it is interesting for a grower as my self to try and keep my room warm instead of cold
Jonus
Well-Known Member
The problem is that the 50 watt LED is under powered for vegging. My 112 watt light in the pics above is about right for vegging in a closet grow. The 1904 LEDs on that setup put out enough heat to warm the veg room to 25 degrees celcius and keep the humidity to about 55-60%. The way I get around the heat issue is I veg 24 hour light schedule. The New 200 watt LED veg light is coming along fine and will emit more heat again.
Im vegging 2-4 plants under my 112 watt LED setup so you can see the difference in comparisson to trying to veg 20 plants. The hype that comes with those commercial LED setups is total bullshit. 20 Clones maybe would be ok to veg but once they get to about a foot high you would need about 8 of those 50 watt LED lights to give the same amount of lumens per square foot as my 2-4 plants are getting under 112 watts.
For vegging it would pay to keep your LED to HPS/MH ratio at about 1:3 watts if you want to truly match the speed of vegging growth of the HID lights. Mine is only 112 watts and not one third of 400 which is 133 watts but I dont try to veg the same amount of plants I could do under a 400 anyways.
Its expensive, and its just a hobby of mine playing around with the ultra brights to see what configurations can give the most lumens per square foot.
Once the 200 watt LED light is done Im moving to the cree type LEDs similar to the ones in the Procyon 100 except I will use the light focussers to try and get a better spread of light which is where I think they went wrong with the Procyon (apart from the outragious pricing).
Im vegging 2-4 plants under my 112 watt LED setup so you can see the difference in comparisson to trying to veg 20 plants. The hype that comes with those commercial LED setups is total bullshit. 20 Clones maybe would be ok to veg but once they get to about a foot high you would need about 8 of those 50 watt LED lights to give the same amount of lumens per square foot as my 2-4 plants are getting under 112 watts.
For vegging it would pay to keep your LED to HPS/MH ratio at about 1:3 watts if you want to truly match the speed of vegging growth of the HID lights. Mine is only 112 watts and not one third of 400 which is 133 watts but I dont try to veg the same amount of plants I could do under a 400 anyways.
Its expensive, and its just a hobby of mine playing around with the ultra brights to see what configurations can give the most lumens per square foot.
Once the 200 watt LED light is done Im moving to the cree type LEDs similar to the ones in the Procyon 100 except I will use the light focussers to try and get a better spread of light which is where I think they went wrong with the Procyon (apart from the outragious pricing).
supportorganics
Active Member
Ok well tell me what you think of this idea i have my leds mounted to a wood board what would happen if i split the board in half maybe and mount a 400 or 600 what HPS and had it running in the middle and than the leds on say the corners of the light shaped somethin like an x with the hps in the middle how would this work?